I'll try to keep this short and to the point, but include all info that may or may not be relevant.

-Recently purchased 2009 Mini Cooper S with head gasket failure.
-Drove car prior to disassembly, ran rough, but no electrical issues,

-Spent about a month with car disassembled, had to access trunk so connected battery while being repaired and having harness disassembled.

-After job was complete, rotated engine by hand many times, no valve interference or mechanical/timing issue related to starting.

-Upon reassembling car, and attempting to start vehicle, pressed dash button and engine cranked very very slowly due to battery being dead.

-I put car on charger/starter, and repeated solenoid clicking sound was heard when trying to start, but no crank. (Again verified engine spun freely at crank pulley). I tried a different battery out of my truck to be sure, battery originally in car load tested fine, showed 390A at 12.39 volts

-I assumed I cooked the starter due to voltage drop issues with it trying to crank without enough juice, due to the push button, it doesnt stop from tryign to start even when it wont succeed.

-the car does not have anything fancy at negative battery terminal, smart sensor or whatever.

-I removed starter, it bench tested fine. Had already bought new starter, so I put it in anyways. Now starter doesnt even click, just a relay somewhere within inside of car.

-I have jumped grounds with jumper cables to be sure everything is grounding out.

-I have tried two different eys, locking and unlocking, connecting battery and disconnecting battery.

-Few funny things I have noticed that hopefully will give someone info needed to help me diagnose:
-With lights on, when I hit the start button, they slightly dim.

-After I try to start it, coolant fan runs, even after I shut it off. (Scanner shows code for coolant temp sensor as failed)

-When I put the negative terminal on the battery with no lights on, it arc's indicating a power draw, although I cant invision anything drawing power. This was part of the reason I put in the new starter.

Any help is appreciated. I have bentley manual. It hints at a cas module. Possibly a clutch switch.

Im convinced i melted something when it tried to start with no battery... Is there a starter relay (in addition to solenoid), or is this part of the ignition module/CAS? The picture in the bentley manual shows two sets of contacts at the starter, is one a relay under the dash or is it integrated into a module?

I'm close to Boston, any shops that folks recommend for this type thing. I'm sure someone who works on these regularly can diagnose this pretty easily. I'm already bummed about putting in a starter that it didnt need, I dont want start parts swapping. I usually do my own work, but without some advice, Im stuck.

Appreciate your time reading this. Look forward to any help.

 

New head gasket means timing should have been reset. Mini timing is "different", to say the least. My first thought is --- you're a novice with Mini's and healthy enough to overcome a valve/piston interference. I can't help with starter issues --- no experience. So, a few questions ---

Initial start attempt --- engine cranked very slow, but later the battery tested OK. Since then, with new starter and battery, there has been no engine cranking, except manually, correct?

You used the Bentley recommended timing tool set and a dummy chain tensioner to set chain tension?

If you re-used the original chain, has it ever been replaced --- (do you have access to original service records)?

Did you happen to measure chain stretch during re-assembly?

During your "manual cranking" you only rotated the crank CW, correct?

All electrical connectors are correct and secure?

I've read where at least two guys didn't tighten the ground strap by the passenger-side wheel well. Did you?

I don't understand your reference to "--- two different eys, locking and unlocking, connecting battery ---". Please clarify.

Instead of looking for a component failure, I'd concentrate on workmanship. Verify electrical connectors are all hooked up to the correct mating connector. Check and double-check timing --- per the Bentley manual.

Hopefully, someone will provide answers to your starter questions. And, I'm sorry if I've offended you, it wasn't intentional.

Best of luck ---

 

When I did my engine rebuilts, I would have a mental check list that I go through before cranking the car. Yes sometime I get anxious to hear it purring, but I have to go through the check list. it is nothing other than making sure my connections are tight and actually connected as mentioned above. Also, before you crank the car, connect the battery while the doors are closed, open the doors with the keyfob, turn on the car and CLEAR the codes. turn off the car. Make sure your first try does not have the spark plugs in. you want to blow out all the junk that fell in the cylinder while doing the job. then put pack the spark plugs and start the car. This is at least how i do it...oh and i do not use the chain tension measuring tool. i believe that when you set the timing with that tool and then removing it might cause the chain to skip a tooth or more. I loosen the sprocket bolts so they can more. while the cams and the shaft are locked, i insert the tensioner bolt slowly, once all the way in and torqued, i tighten the sprocket bolts

 

Guys, I appreciate the feedback, but my issue at hand isnt timing (that may be an issue, but I wont know until I get the starter to crank)

I checked the ground on the upper passenger Motor mount, and went as far as to jump a second ground from the battery to the block with a jumper cable.

Oldbrokenwind, sorry for my typo, I tried 2 different 'keys' not 'eyes' is what I menat to say.

Minitobe, I'll try that battery connection, starter procedure.

Im also going to check the wire to the alternator to be sure its not seeing ground.

Anyone have any info on ignition switches or relays under the dash?

Thanks guys.

 

I suggested timing because you don't mention using cam / crank locking tools during re-assembly, or having any previous Mini Cooper repair experience. And, as a "newbie" you might have tried setting timing using traditional TDC settings. This would almost certainly cause valve-to-piston interference, which in turn will keep the starter from turning the engine. As a guy describing himself as "IDONTFITINAMINI", you're probably strong enough to manually overcome the interference by destroying the valves. This is why I suggested you re-check timing. Maybe if you ensure us that you set timing using acceptable Mini tools and procedures --- . Usually, (but not always) a problem after re-assembly is related to something done during repairs, not a completely different area.

And FYI --- the starter button will try for 15 - 20 seconds before stopping by itself. You can stop it anytime by pushing the button again --- at least this is how my '07 MCS functions. Good to know when doing a compression check.

 

Check all the work done first connectors, grounds everything is tight.
If you have someone elses key and you get an incorrect key icon your cas is fine. Try jumping power directly to the starter. The connector is infront of the battery area in the engine side. It sounds like a ground issue to me. A bad temp sensor can cause a no start. Disconnect it and try starting it. I have seen that once or twice.

Check the CAS with another key
Try jumping power directly to the starter
Check your grounds. I think you have a ground issue.

dont overlook timing if you did not use the cam blocks and crank pin.

 

1. Did you use the MINI timing tools?
2. Did you remove all 3 timing locks after the work?
3. Is the car a manual? Did you kick the clutch safety switch off the clutch pedal?
4. To reiterate; Does the car actually get a starter solenoid click, or just relay clicks from in car? Have you had the car scanned with a quality scan tool to see what manufacturer codes are stored?

 

I'll address the temp sensor first. If I jump the starter it will crank. Thank you. I timed it with a flywheel pin, timing chain tensioner, and cam hold down brackets, timings not relevant to my crank problem.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

used ebay cheapo timign tools for the application, not concerned with timing.

I surely couldve hit the clutch switch. I guess thats a good place to check.

No codes, no solonoid click after the first time it tried to start and didnt have enough battery charge, now just relay click. Power at starter power connection but not at starter relay lead with start pushed.

Thanks for the tips guys.

 

So you hear a relay click when attempting to start. Jumping power to the starter does crank it . Did you try starting it with the coolant temp sensor disconnected? Did you check the grounds? New battery right? Have you checked the fuel pump? Can you hear it prime? It probably is a CAS, you did try it with another key right? Your key could be bad too. Its hard without the scan tool. You could rule out the key in 5 minutes with it. With everything looking good at this point its got to be a module ,key at worst bad DME .

 

Have you confirmed the clutch safety switch is in place?

If you've ruled out all the quick options then you need to find a dealer level tool to diagnose what is going on.

 

Sorry guys, just wrote a post that got lost.

Had 20 minutes to look at it today. Tried it with both keys, same result. Changed out coolant sensor, code is gone, still no start.

Checked at starter again, when the push to start button is either pushed or held down, get a signal to the starter lead for a fraction of a second.

Clutch switch is intact. I think im going to jump it out, does anyone knoe if its normally open or normally closed to indicate clutch depressed?

Is ther also a brake switch interlock to start ona manual transmission? That would surprise me, but the owners manual seems to indicate that.

Finally, I have a new icon on the dash, not shown in owner manual, im going to take a picture and search it out.

Appreciate the continued support.

Any gurus or independent shops south of boston that someone would recommend? After the clutch switch and chasign down the icon on dash, im ready to throw my hands up and leave it to an expert.

There are a few cars I know well, but BMW/Mini isnt one of them.

Thanks again guys.

 

The DME is in charge of the cars electrical system/functions for starting the car. If it detects an issue, such as bad timing pulse from the crank sensor, the DME will shut down power to starter preventing damage. It will also prevent the MINI from starting if the battery is low/needs replacing. Dash lights, dome lights will all work, but car will not start. Very common. Some car batteries like Optima's will never show low voltage. They manufacture them in such a way to hold enough charge for testing enabling them to never have to warranty one. El, crapola. Hopefully other brands haven't started doing that as well ?

When parts are being swapped in to your MINI from other vehicles in an attempt to diag, you are adding in additional factors not maintaining a base line to follow for proper/accurate diag.

 

Did you scan for codes? Can you get carsoft scanner for Mini/BMW. It will give you access to read the CAS and clear codes.

 

so the scan seems to be giving me applicable codes now.

under CAN group 'FFFF' Cansys Communications Fault

Under CAS group 'A0C1' CAS Output Terminal 50

CAS output terminal 50 sounds like its the lead to the starter. Im going to take a look in the Bentley manual to verify that it isnt fused.

Again, old starter bench tested fine, new one is bosch reman.

Appreciate all the help

 

Did you mention that the car was manual? Can you try to pop the clutch and see if the car starts?

 

I finally brought it to a dealer before pushing on. Pretty sure from the beginning it needed a cas, but didnt want parts swap.

i didnt pop start it, but apparently the dealer did get it running, wouldnt tell me if they pop started it or overrode cas with scanner.

They want 1600 to replace cas...

Can I buy an ebay one and have them program it? Do I need to buy new? Im on the homestretch guys, please help me finish.

Thanks,
Mike

 

If you are sure it is the cas. there is a guy on ebay who can program you a new cas and even add a second key for you. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-Cooper-...wAAOSwTZ1Xn2sj send the guy a message and let him know what you want. I used him at least three times to clone my DMEs (different minis i had). the cas, i bought a chip reading tools and was able to copy and past the programs into other CASs.

Check him out.

 

Tell them to prove the diagnostic. You can't buy used modules for these cars as they need to be coded to the vehicle, and that is only able to happen once.

So if they say the CAS is the problem and replace it, that module is yours PERIOD, they can't take it back, so if the problem is elsewhere you've now got a module you didn't need and a car that still doesn't operate as it should.

 

Hi there. I know this is an old post but I was wondering if u ever got this issue sorted out? Im going thru the same issue right now.