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Stock Problems/IssuesDiscussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).
My R56 leaves a small puddle of coolant on the garage floor each night since the shop replaced the thermostat housing last week. I brought the car to them again today, and they found the leak is from the water tube under the intake manifold. I believe it's the water tube going from the thermostat housing to the water pump.
I've read posts from this forum and other sites on DIY and tips.
There are DIY tips, but it appears as if most people attempting this run into problems. Problems are typically being unable to fully remove the intake manifold, the water tube doesn't have room to be removed without also taking out the thermostat housing, or breaking off parts of the water tube while trying to extract it.
Basically my questions are:
Am I likely to fail and/or become highly frustrated as others have?
Will I have to remove the thermostat housing?
Good morning. I think the first question would be, why was the thermostat housing changed? Second, can you identify where the "drips" are coming from, i.e.. left, right, or middle. It is possible that it could be water pump, the water pump to thermostat housing pipe, or there could have been a problem with the installation of the new housing. That "tube" is subject to a lot of heat, so it does become brittle. If it is the "tube", i'm sorry (for you) they didn't notice it when they were working on the car. I'm not throwing stones, it is very possible that it is just coincidental. Depending on your mechanical experience, it can be done at home. Take you time, there are a few helpful videos on the internet. Don P.S. Yes, you will have to remove either the thermostat housing, or the water pump. The water pump, only if leaking!
The car would dribble coolant each night for the past year. I knew it came from the water pump. I finally replaced it, myself, two months ago. The car did not leak following. So, I'm pretty sure the water pump is good.
The engine light came on a few weeks later. I took it to the shop, and they diagnosed that the thermostat was sticking open. They replaced the thermostat housing (with the thermostat) last week. No more engine light, but now I get a dribble of coolant each night on the garage floor.
So I took the car back to the shop yesterday thinking they may have not secured hoses or something. They pressurized the cooling loop and determined the coolant to come from where the water tube goes to the water pump. They said, as we know, that the water tube or o-ring can become brittle over years of use.
I agree with the location. The dribble on the garage floor is inboard of the front, passenger tire ~6-8 inches. It's approximately where the water would be on the floor before I replaced the water pump.
The shop would charge me $370 labor + parts costs to replace the water tube. I like saving money. But if this is expected to be a heavily frustrating exercise with a fair risk of failure, I'll take it back to the shop.
It's definitely not a simple task and people typically will replace this item when doing the water pump/thermostat. It's pretty tough to work in that area for the pipe as space is very limited. Just be sure to follow those tips and gain as much room as you can to access the item. Don't forget about the metal clip from the thermostat side before attempting to remove. Red arrow below. Water pipe HERE if needed and a good thread with lots of pictures HERE.
Question is, was the leak caused by improper installation of the tube, or failure of the tube?
If the former, they should correct it at no charge to you. If the latter, it's up to you.
To me, this falls in the category of "jobs which are a PITA but not highly technically difficult." This means that a DIY type with patience and an open afternoon should be able to do it himself and save a few hundred bucks.
I thought I'd throw my experience in here. I had a BEAR of a time getting the new water pipe in. It was a VERY snug fit. So snug, in fact, that I ruined the first replacement pipe I attempted and had to get another. I will say though...I did it without removing the intake. If you shine a flashlight just right, you can see through the middle of the intake to locate the water pump hole. Once I got it in place, I had to walk around to the driver side fender, put a shop rag over the sharp bits of the water pipe end, and use everything I had to get it to push in and seat into the water pump. That's *after* lubricating with silicone. (and vaseline, as reco'd by my local BMW guy) Once it went in, it was pretty easy to bolt everything back up.
Once it was all reassembled, I filled with 50/50 coolant (BMW) and started squeezing the tubes to clear out the air bubbles. After about 5 minutes, the air bubbles were few and far between. I fired the car up (no leaks, thankfully....) and let it warm up for about 5 minutes before I loosened the bleed screw and tried to clear out any remaining air. I'll take a test drive now and see how it goes. Hope it helps!
I have't read through all of the attached, so maybe this is covered, but if I ever have to replace the tube again I'm just going to remove the intake manifold so I can get at it easier. It would be a good opportunity to replace the intake gaskets/O rings and take a look at the intake valves. The intake manifold doesn't have to come all the way out.
I did mine while I had the trans, starter, and axles out. Had all kinds of room, but pipe was stuck in water pump. Than I used a little silicone spray on the o-ring of the water pump, and than got a mouth full of anti-freeze when it let go!
Was ten times easier for me to remove the intake. Couldn't get it without doing it but it so much easier that I wouldn't attempt it again without removing it. Ended up that it would of been quicker if I had done it in the first place. Plus mine had several wires attached to it that made it tough.
Was ten times easier for me to remove the intake. Couldn't get it without doing it but it so much easier that I wouldn't attempt it again without removing it. Ended up that it would of been quicker if I had done it in the first place. Plus mine had several wires attached to it that made it tough.
Changing mine right now and am curious if there are bolts that hold the water pipe to the intake or is it just held in place by the water pump and thermostat? I'm stuck at this point and to be honest, I'm pretty frustrated with the car and this task in particular.
Quick responses would be fantastic.
It was easier to do than I figured. I removed the airbox , removed the bolts on the intake manifold, and rotated the manifold forward without detaching anything else. Loosen the thermostat housing to remove the water tube and make sure no brittle plastic nor gasket oring are left behind at the pump side or the thermostat housing side. Slip in the new water tube to the water pump side and reassemble everything.
The intake mani has proven to be an ***. I'm gonna have to try and do it without removing that. I can't seem to find the hidden fastener.
Thank you for the quick reply.
For me, the manifold has quite a bit of resistance to being pushed forward. I checked closely underneath to make sure I wasn’t tugging on something that would make a new problem. I lifted up a little bit, pushed forward towards the front of the car, and propped it in that position with something like a wrench extension. I had plenty of work then to put my hands down and into all areas where the water tube sits. I thought tight space was going to be a frustrating issue, but it wasn’t with the manifold pushed forward the way I had it.
I don't think there is a hidden fastner anywhere on that pipe. I've repaired quite many MCS so far and I haven't come across any particular one in which the water pipe is bolted onto anything at all. In my experience the water pipe is simply "sandwiched" together; one end by the water pump housing and the other end by the thermostat housing itself. Both connection ends are snugly tight because of the o-ring rubber seals. Best way I find is to remove the thermostat housing first. With that end out the way, just use a large angle plier, grab the pipe body and attempt to slowly wiggle it out of the water pump housing side. It usually takes me 5-10 hard wiggles and it'll come right off. Just be careful when it let go, it really does let go, don't cut yourself with other sharp edges in that vicinity.
About the intake manifold. I remove that worthless sound effect tube first, remove the throttle body tube to the charge air connection, then unbolt the intake manifold and just move it backward to the firewall and that's enough space to work with.
The intake mani has proven to be an ***. I'm gonna have to try and do it without removing that. I can't seem to find the hidden fastener.
Thank you for the quick reply.
That one 10mm bolt on the support bracket underneath the intake manifold is a real pita, mostly because it can be hard to find it without being able to see it. I found that if you remove the charge pipe from the manifold on the left side (if you are standing in front of the car). Using a 10mm socket with a medium length extension, it’s almost a straight shot right to it from right underneath the opening for the charge pipe.
The job is not worth trying to do with the manifold on there, IMO. It’s just too tight and that pipe sits right up under it. It’s worth the time to do it right, and as frustrating as that one bolt can be to find and get to, once it’s off, it’s sooo much easier. Just be patient, it’s there, just a pain the get the first time.
That one 10mm bolt on the support bracket underneath the intake manifold is a real pita, mostly because it can be hard to find it without being able to see it. I found that if you remove the charge pipe from the manifold on the left side (if you are standing in front of the car). Using a 10mm socket with a medium length extension, it’s almost a straight shot right to it from right underneath the opening for the charge pipe.
The job is not worth trying to do with the manifold on there, IMO. It’s just too tight and that pipe sits right up under it. It’s worth the time to do it right, and as frustrating as that one bolt can be to find and get to, once it’s off, it’s sooo much easier. Just be patient, it’s there, just a pain the get the first time.
I completely agree. I've had the intake manifold off twice now - once for the water pipe replacement when I was replacing the water pump, and once when I was carbon blasting valves, and I gotta tell you, that 10mm bolt is really hard to find, even if you know EXACTLY where it is. Plus getting your hand in there can be a bit of a challenge. But that little bit of pita can't be anything compared to how hard getting that water pipe would be with the intake manifold in the way.
I thought I'd throw my experience in here. I had a BEAR of a time getting the new water pipe in. It was a VERY snug fit. So snug, in fact, that I ruined the first replacement pipe I attempted and had to get another. I will say though...I did it without removing the intake. If you shine a flashlight just right, you can see through the middle of the intake to locate the water pump hole. Once I got it in place, I had to walk around to the driver side fender, put a shop rag over the sharp bits of the water pipe end, and use everything I had to get it to push in and seat into the water pump. That's *after* lubricating with silicone. (and vaseline, as reco'd by my local BMW guy) Once it went in, it was pretty easy to bolt everything back up.
Once it was all reassembled, I filled with 50/50 coolant (BMW) and started squeezing the tubes to clear out the air bubbles. After about 5 minutes, the air bubbles were few and far between. I fired the car up (no leaks, thankfully....) and let it warm up for about 5 minutes before I loosened the bleed screw and tried to clear out any remaining air. I'll take a test drive now and see how it goes. Hope it helps!
Was it a Febi? I'm done with Febi at this point. OEM parts or nothing.
I can't get mine in. It would take an elephant on a see saw from what I can tell...
