Backstory:

While filling up my gas tank it cuts off constantly. Super annoying to get a full tank of gas having to trickle it in. I am no car mechanic but I understand there is air in an empty tank, and liquid needs to get in, so the air has to go somewhere. I assume there is some sort of filter that is not working properly to let the air out.

Fast forward to today:

MINI calls me and told me in fact there is a charcoal filter and it has liquid in it, not allowing it to work properly. They "say" that this is only caused by topping off your gas while filling up after the pump has clicked off. Because of this, it's user error and not covered under warranty.

Now, I know 10001203491832571029348123% that I have NEVER in my entire life topped off a tank of ANY car I have had. So I obviously told them that wasn't going to cut it. I have purchased 2 cars from them (BMW and MINI) and will be buying a 3rd card (BMW) soon so they obviously have had some good business from me. The advisor says she will talk to the manager on Monday and get back to me.

No way I'm paying for this... my car has 16k miles on it and I didn't top off... so I guess I'm asking a few things of you guys:

1. Is there ANYTHING else that can cause the issue of the fluid in the charcoal filter besides topping off a tank?
1 a. Would this issue be caused only by the charcoal filter or can something else broken cause this issue?

2. I've been very nice so far, going to give them until Monday to see what they say, but other than getting MINI USA involved if need be, what other options do I have?

Thanks guys!

 

There could be charcoal pellets in the venting lines coming from the charcoal canister that could be spitting them into the fuel lines as well. If the charcoal canister gets soaked, the screen starts to fall apart but maybe they do over time anyway. So, the lines could be blocked, both vent and fuel and eventually the gas filter. It would be better to take action right away, at least pulling those vent hoses out after some more research in a good Bently manual to see the routing (they are one-way), and blowing them out with compressed air. Make sure you check any bends or kinks in the lines. It will only get worse.

And, no, I have never heard of any other reason besides topping off the tank other than possibly sometimes when pouring a gas "additive" from a bottle might splosh down the vent line to the charcoal filter. Those solvents in additives will eat through that thin screen holding back the pellets quickly. It is becoming a fairly common problem on all US cars, not just BMW's and Mini's, and caused by getting fuel in that canister during fill up - it won't get in there with the gas cap screwed on, so,... maybe the gas pump one day was a little off, temperature differences can do that, and kept shutting off splashing fuel around the opening even though you were not anywhere near full?

I realize this was not the confirmation you were looking for, but hope I have pointed out that if that canister has started to drop the pellets it can turn into a labor intensive job, I have heard of some $700+ estimates for cleaning/checking the lines. This canister is mandated by US law, so there is not a whole lot of wiggle room to claim defective design since the lawyers wrote the specs. With only 16k miles, I can feel your frustration but if you are going to keep the car long term it might be better to meet them partway in order to make sure those pellets are not in the system breaking down into a fine charcoal powder spoiling far more expensive parts down the road which can only be assured by a thorough job, not just replacing a $200 canister.

 

They want over $500 for the job. I have NEVER topped off so now way I'm paying.

I'll also mention this issue to them as well. Make sure they check all that.

Not gonna pay for something I didn't do on a brand new car.

I'll update Monday when they call me.

 

Obviously you are really upset about this, and I can understand where you are coming from after only 16k miles. There is really just only one circumstance that it can happen - the gas cap is removed. What happens during that time only you would know. But - since that is when this happened Occams Razor sez ---- it is a bit more complicated than air has to go out before gas goes in, not anymore at least.

In my climate, hot bone dry desert, this failure happens far less often because the soaked charcoal canister evaporates rather quickly before any damage is done.

All US cars sold the last few years are at risk for this, and it is not the dealers/mechanics fault if allowed to progress to more dire consequences, so I hope you can take care of it before it does some more damage. It probably has not progressed further at this time, you seem like you are very aware of how long it has been going on. And for those that read this months from now, take these symptoms as an early sign you need to investigate. Any gas pump might "pop" off after delivering only a gallon or two, but if it keeps happening, (at different pumps), this is the cause and it leads to more serious mischief that costs money since it usually is not covered under warranty as "owner error". Fuel in the canister will not allow fumes to pass through because it is now clogged and it makes the gas station pump shut off. Which is only annoying at first, but soon it affects the whole fuel system with bits of charcoal dissolved into your gas lines.

Good luck millerb7, hope your dealer is willing to work with you on this.

 

I'm steaming. But they said they would try to work with me on it. I will know Monday and keep you posted. I hope after a BMW, a MINI, and soon to be another BMW they could show some good faith on $500. At 29 they have years of cars from me to go if they handle this well.

So, if they agree (even if they don't) what all do I need to tell them they need to look for? What all needs replaced/fixed?

 

The countryman manual actually says to top off the tank twice. I'd check your manual in the refueling section and see what it says.

Edit: this is from the 2013 countryman manual. I don't know if it's the same for all models. See the last sentence.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...FuelFillUp.png

 

So I need to be sure my vent lines, fuel lines, and fuel filter are checked?

 

This is useful. I will check my manual when I get home. It's a 2013 MCS.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oehe0pr8l7...%2036%20PM.png

No luck. Says after clicks for MCS.

Either way I've never topped off. Guess I need to wait for what they say on Monday.

 

Once they pull the charcoal canister they can tell if it has been leaking pellets and go from there.

 

UPDATE:

Dealer just called me, they are going to do the replacement/fix for me free of charge. They have to order the part in, said the car will be read for pickup tomorrow/Wednesday at the latest.

No arguing or anything. The manager just said he'll take care of it and they appreciate my business.

Just wanted to update for any folks who have this issue in the future.

 

Glad it is going to be resolved for you!

 

Glad it worked out. I think it should have been covered under the emissions warranty to begin with. Why they gave you a hard time is beyond me.

 

I have never ever had issues with topping off the tank. Blaming the user for doing so should be ridiculous.

The main reason not to over do it should be for safety reasons in not spilling gas all over. Anything else is a design flaw that needs to be taken care of under warranty.

I always do two filler nozzle click to make sure it is full and simply not the nozzle being hyper sensitive which it can easily be.
I have never had a problem on any car doing so.
Modern cars are designed to handle those situations. If there is an issue it is either from the pump or from the car.


Good to know your service manager took care of it as it should be

 

As I said earlier, I am glad the dealership found the leeway to care of the issue on a 16k mile car, especially from a repeat customer of new cars. They should have the flexibility under the warranty, especially the emissions coverage mandated by Federal law, to take care of whatever went bad regardless of the cause.

But if you do a bit of googling, you will find this is becoming more of a common issue across all car brands, there is not a lot of difference in the government mandated designs between the auto companies. If those charcoal canisters become saturated with fuel, it will cause these problems. It can take forever for the charcoal to give up the fuel, the pellets hold it tight chemically as it is only supposed to deal with fumes.

 

UPDATE 2:

So, I got the car back a few weeks ago, and have since filled the tank up twice since they gave me the new charcoal canister.

The first fill up clicked off after about 10 seconds so I just chalked that up to maybe being a really low tank (a little under 1/4 tank).

Filled up this past week again and it clicked off twice. First after about 10 seconds. 2nd after about 30 seconds, then filled up fine.

Needless to say, it went back in to the dealer this morning and they are going to root out the issue as to why it's still sporadically happening.

 

They've had my car for 2 days now and no word from them yet. Hopefully whatever the issue turns out to be they get it 100% fixed up and I'll let you all know so if anybody else experiences this same issue they'll have an idea going into it.

 

So, fixed up. It turns out I wasn't lying this entire time about topping off my tank. Even though they fixed the charcoal filter for me for free, they still assumed I was just lying about topping my tank off.

It was some other issue with some ball inside the tank itself, so they had to actually replace my entire gas tank and now say the issue is completely fixed.

Just a FYI for any folks with the same issues down the road.

 

I fill all my cars full tilt all the time and have never had an issue.
Glad to hear you finally got fixed up. That must have been annoying!!

 

More annoying than you could imagine. So glad they swapped the tank and got it all fixed up... as well as put in a new charcoal filter.

Just glad they now KNOW for sure it wasn't my fault for topping off my tank (which never occurred). They have been good through the process though so that is always nice.

 

Glad it is working, curious about "the ball in the tank", going to go digging in manuals to see what they might be talking about. There is a flapper valve? One way valve? I would have thought it part of the charcoal filter.

 

Don't pick it up until tomorrow. I'll get specifics from them in the morning.

 

every once in a while this happens to me, maybe 2-3 clicks, but i've determined that cocking the gas nozzle a little will alleviate some pressure in the filler tube, and it will no longer click. this has happened on all my cars different makes and models, and I don't top off. i also think the pump itself and the particular gas station matters, i've noticed certain stations have equipment that will click 5-6 times and others that will never click when filling.

 

That usually happens when it is cold at night which makes the underground pump reservoirs really really cold, and you are filling on a warm day or at least have a warm tank. Getting the hose nozzle angle just right allows the charcoal canister to function properly. Exceed those clicks, and on some cars more than others, it screws up the whole deal.

Still wondering about that "ball in the tank", hope it is just the mechanics "laymen" expression for something real that has a part number,...

 

He said, "We replaced the rule tank. We are thinking something possibly with the check ball not responding correctly."

Those were his exact words in the text he sent me.