What is the best way to prevent the Timming Chain to fail?
I think its safe to say B was kidding - referring to the overly long oil change interval (OCI) suggested by the manufacturer...
That said, R53 might have got some reasonable miles in... 60mph continuously for 1week... 10,000miles! :D
E
That said, R53 might have got some reasonable miles in... 60mph continuously for 1week... 10,000miles! :D
E
Last edited by Summons; Jun 6, 2013 at 07:03 AM. Reason: missread op: 2 weeks since repair changed to 1 week.
my personal theory of timing chain failure ... i have no physical evidence, only my experience as a professional aviation/auto/motorcycle mechanic and my friends similar experience
i have a friend that owns an independant auto repair shop
he tells me that he can group his mini customers into 2 groups, those that have/will have timing chain problems and those who will not
he has done many (~100) timing chain replacements and says in every case he has found the oil galley that feeds the chain tensioner partially blocked with oil sludge
these same customers had done only the OBC directed oil/filter changes
the second group (no timing chain issues) do 3,000 - 5,000 mile oil/filter changes
my friend now INSISTS that all his customers with minis change the oil/filter at a maximum of 5,000 miles
secondary evidence is mini reducing the oil/filter change interval from 15K to 10K and now 8K miles
i do not want to be flooded with "i had my oil tested and it was fine" posts ... THERE IS NO TEST FOR SLUDGING, the oil tests are for the lubricating properties and contamination of the oil
i see this all the time in aviation, customers insist on oil testing and extended change intervals based on the results ... the end result is sludge buildup and when we show the customer, we go back to normal oil change intervals
scott
i have a friend that owns an independant auto repair shop
he tells me that he can group his mini customers into 2 groups, those that have/will have timing chain problems and those who will not
he has done many (~100) timing chain replacements and says in every case he has found the oil galley that feeds the chain tensioner partially blocked with oil sludge
these same customers had done only the OBC directed oil/filter changes
the second group (no timing chain issues) do 3,000 - 5,000 mile oil/filter changes
my friend now INSISTS that all his customers with minis change the oil/filter at a maximum of 5,000 miles
secondary evidence is mini reducing the oil/filter change interval from 15K to 10K and now 8K miles
i do not want to be flooded with "i had my oil tested and it was fine" posts ... THERE IS NO TEST FOR SLUDGING, the oil tests are for the lubricating properties and contamination of the oil
i see this all the time in aviation, customers insist on oil testing and extended change intervals based on the results ... the end result is sludge buildup and when we show the customer, we go back to normal oil change intervals
scott
Not oil related
I have been reading all these threads bout the timing chain issue. First the chain is blamed, then the guides, then the tensioner. Has BMW/Mini ever done a root cause analysis, 5 why, FMEA? Being a quality engineer in the aerospace industry with all the problems with the R56 timing chain rattles this would be ripe for a root cause analysis. Remember aircraft going flying off into the sky at extraordinary speed with a human passenger aboard and if something is marginal and breaks the plane crashes, the pilot and others die.... This is only an automobile, but there are safety issues if an engine fails due to this marginal timing chain at freeway speeds....could cause a crash and deaths just like the aircraft. A whole bunch of factors come to mind and doing these analysis I speak of requires Mini designers, engineers, production people, technicians, and even the Peugeot people and end users all coming together to do these analysis together. RCCA is what we call it (root cause and corrective action), which would come up with a permanent fix, so no other car would ever have another timing chain rattle or failure. I will speculate on some of the possible issues causing this problem, but without learned experts, I can only guess and a competent analysis cannot be done in a vacuum by only one person.
1. Rattle or loosening of the chain caused by weakening tensioner, then is the tensioner design acceptable for the intended use?
2. Are the materials selected for the tensioner spring tested for mechanical and temperature cycling and potential degradation?
3. Is timing chain design acceptable to minimize chain stretch and potential degradation, and also for thermal and mechanical cycling.
4. Are materials for timing guides been tested for mechanical and thermal cycling and potential degradation.
These are just a few broad questions, that I am sure BMW/Mini has gone through in coming up the fixes that are out there. Seems like the revised tensioner with a longer travel might be just a bandaid fix and maybe the spring material degrades over mechanical cycles and heat or was heat treated poorly and takes a set after so many cycles (like valve springs if over stressed take a set and become less functional).
Not sure if BMW/Mini go to such lengths for determining how to find the causes for the failures and fix such to give the customer the value deserved.
My 2010 MCS with 54000 miles on it is making noise after I changed the serpentine belt. Not a rattle, but more like a light knock coming from water pump area and not the valve cover area. I am replacing the water pump and pump pulley as precautionary and at the same time put in the longer tensioner, just in case.
Everything mechanical will eventually fail, but pro-active maintenance and awareness of the weaknesses of the Mini can only help prolong the pleasure we get from driving our cars.
1. Rattle or loosening of the chain caused by weakening tensioner, then is the tensioner design acceptable for the intended use?
2. Are the materials selected for the tensioner spring tested for mechanical and temperature cycling and potential degradation?
3. Is timing chain design acceptable to minimize chain stretch and potential degradation, and also for thermal and mechanical cycling.
4. Are materials for timing guides been tested for mechanical and thermal cycling and potential degradation.
These are just a few broad questions, that I am sure BMW/Mini has gone through in coming up the fixes that are out there. Seems like the revised tensioner with a longer travel might be just a bandaid fix and maybe the spring material degrades over mechanical cycles and heat or was heat treated poorly and takes a set after so many cycles (like valve springs if over stressed take a set and become less functional).
Not sure if BMW/Mini go to such lengths for determining how to find the causes for the failures and fix such to give the customer the value deserved.
My 2010 MCS with 54000 miles on it is making noise after I changed the serpentine belt. Not a rattle, but more like a light knock coming from water pump area and not the valve cover area. I am replacing the water pump and pump pulley as precautionary and at the same time put in the longer tensioner, just in case.
Everything mechanical will eventually fail, but pro-active maintenance and awareness of the weaknesses of the Mini can only help prolong the pleasure we get from driving our cars.
If you want to drive one of these cars over many years, you have to check the slack regularly (at least every 10K miles) and replace parts as needed to keep slack under 72mm at ALL times. It takes about 30 min to check. I bought the tools to do it myself. I plan to install an Accusump. That will fully tension (with oil) the tensioner PRIOR to startup and hopefully lengthen the life of the timing chain system.
DOC
DOC
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mikes603
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
7
Oct 5, 2015 12:12 PM
eliseo1981
R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+)
3
Sep 30, 2015 07:57 PM



