I have an MCS with DSC. I am interested in installing an ABS-disable switch in the free toggle space.

My question: where can I find the ABS wire to splice into? I originally thought behind the fusebox. I disconnected Fuse #F33, but I found that this also disables the DSC, and also ignites the "BRAKE" and flat-tire monitors, something that I do not want the new switch to do.

So, is it possible to be able to disable only the ABS, without affecting the DSC and flat-tire monitors? If so, which wire is should be spliced into and where is it?

Thanks in advance!

 

not sure why you'd want to do this, unless you're trying to optimize your braking distances on gravel/snow/ice/etc. ABS will shorten your stopping distances on dry or wet clean pavement.

The ABS is integral to the DSC, I'm sure it won't be easy to deactivate the ABS and leave just the ASC+T active. However, I would like to do almost the opposite; deactivate the ASC+T but leave the DSC computer active - affecting only the brakes.

 

>>I have an MCS with DSC. I am interested in installing an ABS-disable switch in the free toggle space.
>>
>>My question: where can I find the ABS wire to splice into? I originally thought behind the fusebox. I disconnected Fuse #F33, but I found that this also disables the DSC, and also ignites the "BRAKE" and flat-tire monitors, something that I do not want the new switch to do.
>>
>>So, is it possible to be able to disable only the ABS, without affecting the DSC and flat-tire monitors? If so, which wire is should be spliced into and where is it?

I'm not sure how to disable the ABS. I think it would be a BAD idea for the average person. ABS is integrated into the MINI's safety features for good reason- the benefit of the occupants. Don't tamper with a good thing is my motto.

The MINI has multiple built in features. DSC can be turned off with the toggle switch but ASC is passive and cannot be turned off with a switch.

(standard on all MCS) ASC +T= Automatic Stability Control (or All Season Traction Control). Helps stability- stops front wheel spin (reduces engine torque and/or applies brake force to one or more wheels) , esp on tight bends and slippery surfaces.

DSC-Dynamic Stability Control-Avail for MC and MCS. The DSC uses sensors to measure steering angle, yaw, and lateral acceleration to determine the direction you want to go. If your path is not what you intended, the DSC will apply the right amount of brake pressure to individual wheels and manipulate engine torque.

More on all this from this old thread-
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...mp;topic=16931
and
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...mp;topic=17557

Edited:
OK- I had the MINIUSA folks look up the answer and it is definitely
When DSC is off then it is OFF and only ABS is left on.
Here is the exact email from MINI-

"When DSC is turned off, you have only ABS remaining. The same is true if
you have only ASC (no DSC option), if you turn it off, you have only ABS
remaining. It is not possible to turn off ABS but if you turn off ASC/DSC,
you turn off all wheel spin, understeer, and oversteer control. ABS does
include sub functions of CBC (Corner Braking Control), EBV (Electronic Brake
Proportioning) and MSR (Engine Drag Torque Reduction). Hope this helps.
Let me know if you need anything else."

Therefore I would say that I was wrong but I am now corrected.


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Disabling the ABS!!! My question is- WHY???

 

Davecsumini wrote: "Disabling the ABS!!! My question is- WHY??? "

Minihune wrote: " I think it would be a BAD idea for the average person. ABS is integrated into the MINI's safety features for good reason- the benefit of the occupants. Don't tamper with a good thing is my motto. "

Ryephile wrote: "not sure why you'd want to do this, unless you're trying to optimize your braking distances on gravel/snow/ice/etc. ABS will shorten your stopping distances on dry or wet clean pavement."

The reasons I would like to (occasionally) be able to turn off the ABS:

First, I have been a performance drivers school instructor for over 15 years and am completely aware of the advantages/disadvantages of ABS, so I don't believe I fall into the "average driver" category. As Ryephile said, I would like to shorten my stopping distances on snow...on the street. (ABS will not shorten your stopping distance on ice.)

My primary reason for wanting to disable ABS is for track use. On road course racetracks (Summit Point for one example), which are often surrounded by gravel traps or sand for "safety" reasons, having the ABS on actually contributes to a crash!

I've seen it many times: a driver is about to have an off-track excursion, drives off the track onto a gravel trap with his foot pushed down hard on the stop pedal. If the ABS is on, the car will not stop as quickly as if he had no ABS. Since the front wheels do not lock, they do not "dig" into the gravel, building up a little "mound" in front of the tires. If the ABS is on, those tires just keep rolling along on top of the gravel, (think of skipping a rock over a lake) and the stopping distances are greatly increased, which makes the difference between a safe off-track excursion and a smash into a tree or tire wall.

In addition, in this particular example, since the stopping distances on gravel are considerably longer, the chances the driver will turn the wheel left or right in order to avoid the oncoming tree or tire wall are increased....and if that steering wheel is turned too much and the vehicle is still traveling at a good rate of speed, the chances of rolling the car increase as well.

Don't get me wrong: ABS is a very valuable technology for the average driver. The key here is "average." If, however, we lived in a world where all drivers were properly trained and cognitive of incipient brake lockup, ABS wouldn't be considered such a godsend.

I am NOT advocating the disabling of ABS if you have it for street use.

 

This is wrong. Turning off DSC turns all traction control and stability controls OFF. We had a thread about this over a year ago here. :smile:

 

I said: "...unless you're trying to optimize your braking distances on gravel..."

He said: "...which are often surrounded by gravel traps or sand for "safety" reasons, having the ABS on actually contributes to a crash!"

Score one for me being the master of prediction!

Good luck, If you can find a BMW ETK/TIS, it will help gather data.
Ryan

 

DSC uses ABS to determine weelspin, etc. If you turn off ABS there's no way DSC could work. It would have nothing to go on. At least that's what my rally mechanic friend told me. :smile:

 

>>I think for the time being, you should throw an anchor out the window when you hit the gravel traps
>>
>>
LMAO

 

I know that at the BMW Performance Driving School at Spartenburg, SC Their 330i have a switch that turns the ABS on and off cause I drove one of them with the switch. The problem is that when the switch was off (and ABS off) the speedo (and maybe event he tach) did work!!! I thought that was crazy, I know it has to do with the way that BMW intergrates all their electronic gizmos and I am sure that ABS is on that nearly all of the electronic safety programs use. I guess you could call the Performance driving center (go to bmwusa.com) and ask them if they know anyone with the info on where the switch is spliced.

 

Hmmm... makes me wonder what MINI of Sterling does (if anything) on the car that they race... or for that matter if they would even tell you...

 

ABS does in fact increase stopping distance in gravel and packing snow. I does shorted distances on dry/wet pavement, ice, and packed snow. That said ABS still provides full steering control on ALL surfaces. That means in gravel and packing snow you can steer clear of the object. Yes, a performance driver can do this, too, however, a performance driver cannot under any circumstances reduce bracking to the rear wheels.

Why? Your MINI uses EBD (electronic brake distribution) instead of a proportioning valve to regulate the rear brake pressure. With ABS off, EBD is also off. You will, therefore, not be able to balance the pressure in the rear axle to prevent lockup. In the end you will have a vehicle that has a tendancy to lock the rear axle and make the vehicle tend to spin (a$$ end forward :smile: ) There is no way to disable ABS because of this without removing power from the ABS unit (a fuse works). When I took a couple safety driving courses, this was exactly what we did to attempt control without the aid of ABS.

Without power to the ABS, there's naturally no DSC as well. In our development vehicles (I develop DSC/ABS systems) we install a switch inline of the fuse. This is in case we have a vehicle with bad development software and we need to go directly to base brakes, a panic switch. You could easily wire this up, but I would advise first determine the natural braking balance in the vehicle before you spend time to find out that it will be dangerous. You could do this by removing the fuse and on a closed course, carefully do a few locked stops to determine if the rear wheels will lock too easily. Also try this while doing a curve as this will force the vehicle in a more natural spin. If it seems pretty steady, I'd say play with it.

 

>>>>This is wrong. Turning off DSC turns all traction control and stability controls OFF. We had a thread about this over a year ago here. :smile:

If you read all of the posts on this thread on turning off DSC
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&start=25
You will find that the opinions are roughly split in two about whether DSC is truely off when you turn it off.

My opinion is based on BMW and MINI explanations of DSC and the function of the toggle switch.
Others based their opinions on the performance of the MINI driven with DSC turned on and off.

I will ask Mark to ask MINI USA about this so that we can be clear on this point of contention.

Here is the answer from MINIUSA-

"When DSC is turned off, you have only ABS remaining. The same is true if
you have only ASC (no DSC option), if you turn it off, you have only ABS
remaining. It is not possible to turn off ABS but if you turn off ASC/DSC,
you turn off all wheel spin, understeer, and oversteer control. ABS does
include sub functions of CBC (Corner Braking Control), EBV (Electronic Brake
Proportioning) and MSR (Engine Drag Torque Reduction). Hope this helps.
Let me know if you need anything else."

Therefore I would say that I was wrong but I am now corrected.



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>>>>>>>>This is wrong. Turning off DSC turns all traction control and stability controls OFF. We had a thread about this over a year ago here. :smile:
>>
>>If you read all of the posts on this thread on turning off DSC
>>https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&start=25
>>You will find that the opinions are roughly split in two about whether DSC is truely off when you turn it off.
>>
>>My opinion is based on BMW and MINI explanations of DSC and the function of the toggle switch.
>>Others based their opinions on the performance of the MINI driven with DSC turned on and off.
>>
>>I will ask Mark to ask MINI USA about this so that we can be clear on this point of contention.
>>
As an developer of these systems, DSC disable switches almost always disable ASC (traction control) together. Another clue that this is the case in the MINI, if you don't buy DSC and only get ASC, there's still a switch. So what sense would it make for a manufacturer to supply a switch for the more basic function, but not allow the switch on the advanced function disable the same lower function ASC? You can be pretty sure that ASC is disabled together with DSC. Turn off DSC, mash the pedal and release the clutch. Did the wheels slip? If they did ASC is off.

ABS and the accompanying EBD (electronic brake distribution) will not be disabled.

The reason I say almost always, some manufactures have problems with diferential scoring caused by a slipping wheel that eventually finds a high mu (high frictional) surface while the other is still. This cause great stress on the differential and can in extreme cases damage it. In these cases, the system reverts to engine only management and the engine will try to prevent the two driven wheels from having too great a difference in speed by reducing torque when the scenerio is recognized.

 

>>>>>>>>This is wrong. Turning off DSC turns all traction control and stability controls OFF. We had a thread about this over a year ago here. :smile:

>>I will ask Mark to ask MINI USA about this so that we can be clear on this point of contention.

I got the response from Mark who got the final answer from MINI.
Greatgro is correct-
When DSC is off it is OFF and everything is off except for ABS.
Same in a MC that has ASC- when it is off it is OFF.

OK- I will be editing my posts about DSC today.

 

Bringing this thread back from the farthest corner of the basement...

My wife and I are looking to purchase a new MINI. There is a VERY GOOD chance that this car WILL be used for SCCA rallyX where ABS can be a bad thing. (it is legal and recommended to disable ABS in RallyX competition) We are very interested in the consequenses of what happens when and if you can disable the ABS for competition purposes. We would re-able the system after the event for the drive home if it's an easy mod like pulling a fuse.

I don't think I'd be afraid of losing any spin control features of the car if that goes away with ABS as I actively now try to get the rear of the car to break loose and rotate for corners. Lift throttle oversteer is my friend!

edit: I just realized I put this in the wrong forum as this is a 1st gen and we are looking at a new car. I'll leave this here since there was a good discussion and I may still get some good info. One other question though... Once you disable traction control, is it totally off? Does it come back on once you go over a certain speed? (one of our friends has a new Mazda that does that) Once you turn the car off do you have to turn it back off the next time you start the car?