The Yo-Yo Chronicles
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Just had V37 installed last week and can only say the car drives completely different. I wish I would have complained earlier. I was driving around the problem or just considered it was made that way.
Now my wife loves to drive it (03 MCS) and my neighbors think we figured out how to drive a stick!
Now my wife loves to drive it (03 MCS) and my neighbors think we figured out how to drive a stick!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
>>norm03s wrote: "still norm03s: When did you arrange V38 uploading? Are you sure you're not confusing with V36, as dealership service departments do not have V38 yet!"
Ryan has v.38, as do I. The update was arranged with MINIUSA in NJ, to where the ECUs were sent. The update should be hitting dealers in the June timeframe.
>>agokart wrote: We talked today about dynoing the car again to see what kind of power it is getting now with the stock ECU program.
This will be interesting. Wouldn't it be a coincidence if there was a 7 bhp gain? Just dreaming, I guess!
I'd love to dyno my stock v.38 MCS to see how it differs after the update!
Theo
Ryan has v.38, as do I. The update was arranged with MINIUSA in NJ, to where the ECUs were sent. The update should be hitting dealers in the June timeframe.
>>agokart wrote: We talked today about dynoing the car again to see what kind of power it is getting now with the stock ECU program.
This will be interesting. Wouldn't it be a coincidence if there was a 7 bhp gain? Just dreaming, I guess!
I'd love to dyno my stock v.38 MCS to see how it differs after the update!
Theo
actually, I'm going to delay the V38 dyno session just a bit, until I can also dyno Randy's UNIchip back-to-back.
Day Two:
All is good. The adaptive logic is basically done learning; from here on out is just subtle long-term adjustments. I talked a bit with ye ole' enging management expert at my work. Seems that dialing in a bit of overshoot on high ramp-rates in the throttle is considered "normal" in the e-gas world. This would perfectly explain what I said earlier how the overshoot seems to be only noticable with big, quick stabs of throttle. I'm still blown away at the linearity of the throttle, and how well composed the engine is at lower RPM's versus previous versions (no more jerking or lurching or the like).
So far, all in all, I'd put getting V38 on your MINI to-do list!
Motoring-On,
Ryan
Day Two:
All is good. The adaptive logic is basically done learning; from here on out is just subtle long-term adjustments. I talked a bit with ye ole' enging management expert at my work. Seems that dialing in a bit of overshoot on high ramp-rates in the throttle is considered "normal" in the e-gas world. This would perfectly explain what I said earlier how the overshoot seems to be only noticable with big, quick stabs of throttle. I'm still blown away at the linearity of the throttle, and how well composed the engine is at lower RPM's versus previous versions (no more jerking or lurching or the like).
So far, all in all, I'd put getting V38 on your MINI to-do list!
Motoring-On,
Ryan
To date there is no "official" release date that I've been made aware of. You can expect, however, the higher CSI dealerships to receive V38 starting mid-June.
Basically, wait a few weeks, then start asking your dealership on when they're getting V38.
In the meantime, back to evaluation-motoring,
Ryan
Basically, wait a few weeks, then start asking your dealership on when they're getting V38.
In the meantime, back to evaluation-motoring,
Ryan
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln, NE
Ryephile,
I have been watching your posts on all of the MINI bbs. Thank you for all of the investigation/prodding of MINI USA.
Your evaluation of v38 is promising, but I still can't tell if it completely fixes the overshoot (yo-yo). It sounds like the EMS is much improved, but there is still some yo-yo during rapid acceleration events.
Am I getting it?
Any more infor on whether v38 is/is not being installed on MINI's from the factory?
I have been watching your posts on all of the MINI bbs. Thank you for all of the investigation/prodding of MINI USA.
Your evaluation of v38 is promising, but I still can't tell if it completely fixes the overshoot (yo-yo). It sounds like the EMS is much improved, but there is still some yo-yo during rapid acceleration events.
Am I getting it?
Any more infor on whether v38 is/is not being installed on MINI's from the factory?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Upstate SC
Ryan,
Thank you for all your time and effort to bring about a solution to our yo-yo.
One thing that I have noticed is that driving style has a lot to do with how pronounced the yo-yo effect is. In saying that, I don't necessarily mean that the driving style has an immediate affect. It is more like the adaptive aspect of the ECU is learning and giving the driver what it thinks the driver wants.
Has anyone noticed how adaptive the ECU can be? The reason I am wondering this is that those that said the "value added feature" went away after an ECU update only to return sometime later. How much of the base engine control algorithm is modified by the adaptive ECU?
Eagerly awaiting V.38
Chris
Thank you for all your time and effort to bring about a solution to our yo-yo.
One thing that I have noticed is that driving style has a lot to do with how pronounced the yo-yo effect is. In saying that, I don't necessarily mean that the driving style has an immediate affect. It is more like the adaptive aspect of the ECU is learning and giving the driver what it thinks the driver wants.
Has anyone noticed how adaptive the ECU can be? The reason I am wondering this is that those that said the "value added feature" went away after an ECU update only to return sometime later. How much of the base engine control algorithm is modified by the adaptive ECU?
Eagerly awaiting V.38
Chris
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
Ryephile, Are you running the stock spring in the bypass with v38 or do you still have the stronger spring in place? Also, you metioned Test 19 subset 21(or something) in the OBDII GUI. I'm a newby. I know what OBDII is, but not GUI and how do you access it on the odometer, and.....
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
No problem, MINISQL.
Re: v.38 --
I tested the cruise control last night and today. There is indeed a welcome difference. In my area there are lots of hills but the interstate is pretty gentle. I went about 52 miles with the cruise set to 74 and it never strayed more that 1 mph! Most of the time it was right on the mark.
Theo
_________________
Re: v.38 --
I tested the cruise control last night and today. There is indeed a welcome difference. In my area there are lots of hills but the interstate is pretty gentle. I went about 52 miles with the cruise set to 74 and it never strayed more that 1 mph! Most of the time it was right on the mark.
Theo
_________________
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
I did some logging with the zip tie method of holding the bypass valve closed and I lost between 3 and 4 psi of boost:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tart=50&56
FWIW, I'm not a Yo-Yo sufferer.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tart=50&56
FWIW, I'm not a Yo-Yo sufferer.
Coordinator :: Chicago MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, TX
RE:
Can someone explain a bit more clearly how we can adjust this screw to be certain that it's fully closing? Will it be obvious once I get in there whether or not the flap is closing? Will it require any more handiwork than the basic Ryephix #1 instructions?
Also, Ryan, are you still recommending the Ryephix #1 solution?
The set screw is just that a screw that rides on a cam that act's as a stop for the position of the bypass valve flap control shaft. It appears to be coated with an anti- vibration material. It should be adjusted without any vacuum/pressure on the unit so that the flap is just closed as Ryan has said.
Also, Ryan, are you still recommending the Ryephix #1 solution?
To "calibrate" the bypass valve to fully closed, I recommend removing it from the vehicle in order to easily visualize its position. Keep in mind all the adjustments from out-the-box are very minimal, and any gain will be marginal.
Yes, I still recommend Ryephix #1 as a performance-oriented way to eradicate the Yo-Yo, or to optimize the boost generation speed. There may be a potential of higher off-boost intake temps, however this should have only a marginal if any impact on longetivity. Andy@Ross-Tech's testing stating a boost reduction appears to be a testing anomaly, as there is no technical reason for any boost reduction.
Motor-on,
Ryan
Yes, I still recommend Ryephix #1 as a performance-oriented way to eradicate the Yo-Yo, or to optimize the boost generation speed. There may be a potential of higher off-boost intake temps, however this should have only a marginal if any impact on longetivity. Andy@Ross-Tech's testing stating a boost reduction appears to be a testing anomaly, as there is no technical reason for any boost reduction.
Motor-on,
Ryan
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 275
Likes: 1
OK, dumb question here. Are there gaskets between the runners and the manifold and the manifold and bypass? If so, do they have to be replaced each time?
I just wonder how charitable the dealer will be if they know I've been buying these gaskets if I happen to have a problem down the line...
I just wonder how charitable the dealer will be if they know I've been buying these gaskets if I happen to have a problem down the line...
--->CoryB - there is a metal gasket between the intercooler exit bend and the intake manifold, that's it (for the driver side of the engine).
--->Andy - Easy is relative
1) remove the CAI-to-TB tube (you can leave the PCV hose connected and just bend it back out of the way).
2) remove the intercooler
3) remove the intake tubes from the radiator baffle to the lower airbox.
4) remove the IC exit bend. Three nuts (don't lose them in the depths of the engine bay!), loosen the clamps for the bypass valve, and YANK the IC exit bend. Yes, it's scary sounding.
5) remove the three bolts holding the bypass valve to the IC exit bend.
6) drink favorite beverage.
*you do not have to remove the TB. Removal of CAI-to-TB hose is to increase ease-of-operation room. Removal of IC is ease YANK operation.
I hope that helps,
Ryan
--->Andy - Easy is relative
1) remove the CAI-to-TB tube (you can leave the PCV hose connected and just bend it back out of the way).
2) remove the intercooler
3) remove the intake tubes from the radiator baffle to the lower airbox.
4) remove the IC exit bend. Three nuts (don't lose them in the depths of the engine bay!), loosen the clamps for the bypass valve, and YANK the IC exit bend. Yes, it's scary sounding.
5) remove the three bolts holding the bypass valve to the IC exit bend.
6) drink favorite beverage.
*you do not have to remove the TB. Removal of CAI-to-TB hose is to increase ease-of-operation room. Removal of IC is ease YANK operation.
I hope that helps,
Ryan
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
I got the bypass valve removed ... well, I left one bolt in place, and just rotated the valve so I could see the butterfly actuation. It appears to be fully closed when it is against the stop. Also, it does not overshoot in operation:
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
I've been trying to get more information about when v.38 will hit the dealerships. To that end, I placed a call to my Service Manager who, incidently, has been absolutely wonderful to work with during my ECU update. He just returned my call. There is no new news regarding the timing. However, I did ask him about the CSI-based distribution schedule. Below is what I posted on MINI2::Cooper S::CD38 Update:
_________________
Just heard back from my Service Manager. He hasn't received or read any new information regarding the distribution of the v.38 update. I also asked him about the CSI-based distribution schedule and he was suprised to hear about that. He said that CSI-based distribution was definitely not true. If fact, he felt that even if they did base the distribution on CSI data, the lowest-rated dealerships might be given the update first in order to help them inprove their rating! There is some good logic to this alternative view! However, this does differ from previous information...
He went on to elaborate that most updates are transmitted over the MINI network to the dealer's computers overnight. Thus, he leaves his unit on all the time. There have been some cases of a CD distribution method but these are the exception.
I'll ping him again in a couple of weeks to see if there is new information.
Theo
He went on to elaborate that most updates are transmitted over the MINI network to the dealer's computers overnight. Thus, he leaves his unit on all the time. There have been some cases of a CD distribution method but these are the exception.
I'll ping him again in a couple of weeks to see if there is new information.
Theo
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 3
From: Over there -->
Pebblecrusher wrote:
>>Thanks Koopah! Any chance of finding out better information on release date from the folks that actually upgraded your ECU?
I think both Ryan and I have tried to get this info from our MINIUSA contacts, to no avail. What we have heard is, simply, "June".
Theo
>>Thanks Koopah! Any chance of finding out better information on release date from the folks that actually upgraded your ECU?
I think both Ryan and I have tried to get this info from our MINIUSA contacts, to no avail. What we have heard is, simply, "June".
Theo