Hi Guys,

I have recently been hit with a non-functioning radiator fan in my beloved Mini!

I'm used to it usually kicking in now and then and even humming when the engine is off - that's fine and a characteristic of the 2002 Mini.

But now mine has stopped coming on altogether and caused the engine to overheat on this occasion, to the point where the engine coolant was bubbling.

I have not since used the car and it is now in a local garage (couldn't drive it much further than that - so couldn't get it to a Mini specialist) and the mechanic has said that the fan IS coming on and suspects a circuitry issue or fan switch issue.

Can anyone give me some help? Is that a right diagnosis? Could this have caused further problems? How do I ensure this doesn't happen again? Etc!

Thanks all!

Nicx

 

It could be a number of things, but it will likely be the thermostatic switch that detects the coolant temperature. The switches often go bad after many years, especially if the coolant was not changed per the maintenance schedule.

 

my car was just serviced about a month ago (service 1).

ill give this info to the mechanic and see what he thinks.

thanks and any more help appreciated guys!

 

This type of problem is not unique to the Mini, and any competent mechanic should be able to easily diagnose what the problem is (and the actual repair is very easy, too). The problem also could be the electric motor itself, but most often it's the switch, and related to old coolant damaging the switch.

 

Guys,

Bad news for me :(.

Yesterday the mechanic told me the fan WAS working!

Today he tells me that it actually isn't at that the "control unit", which is connected to the fan (and apparently part of the fan assembly unit) is broken and that basically I need a whole new fan assembly unit :(!

He said he tried replacing the "relay", but no joy.

And apparently has to take the front of the car apart (almost), like the bumper etc to get to the unit to replace it.

Does this add up?? How can one minute he says the fan is ok and the next its not?

Any ideas??

Thanks guys,

Z

 

oh and he's charging me £200 for the fan + £280 labour for 4 hours... Said its bloody difficult to reach and they've got to literally take the front of the car off.. Bumper etc..

 

The main bearings on my radiator fan died recently and everything was okay as long as I didn't sit too long or run the AC. When I did have to sit and idle I turned on the heater through the upper vents and that got me home one hot afternoon last week in heavy traffic without overheating.
I ordered a new fan assembly from RockAuto.com for about $128. Everyone else wanted over $300 for a new one. You do have to pull the front end off the car, bumper and all and pull the radiator forward, but it's not a difficult job to replace.

 

If the fan turns on full speed (Stage2) but does not come on when the car just starts to overheat then it could be the Stage 1 circuit. There is a resistor to run the fan at half speed which can burn out or open and cause this. It is in the radiator fan assembly and does need a new Fan assembly to correct it

 

The fan is pretty easy....you do need to get the car in service mode, which includes bumper cover, and the bumper beam removal.....but not too time consuming for a pro....will only add maybe an hour labor if he has done it lots....
One thing to point out...it sounds like the mechanic is not a MINI guy....on pre-2005 MINI's, the PS fan would get stuck, and blow a fuse...rendering the Radiator fan inoperative.....2005+ cars got a wiring change, and some dealers retrofitted it to earlier cars....this change to the wiring harness put the two fuses on separate fuses.
A secondary problem, common to most gen1 MINI's is the failure of the low-speed resistor, rendering the low speed of the fan inoperative.
The OEM fan is $$$, and will fail again, as the resistor has not been improved....we have had great luck here in the states with the TYC brand, an aftermarket fan, that is a clone of the OEM for about 35% of the cost...and it has a warranty, lifetime in many cases.

 

PS...I did my fan in 4hrs in my garage, as a rank amateur, with no manual, and limited tools.....so the time Quote is off for a pro......I wasted tons of time trying to figure out what to do....I bet a pro with some experience could do it in 2.5-3 hrs, including bleeding the cooling system....I did a drain and refill at the same time.....

 

hiya,

thanks for the tips - really helpful stuff!

i thought the PS fan was only fitted to Cooper S models and not Cooper??

also - you're saying a straight swap of fans won't solve the problem long-term and that he should look to replace the resistor? that correct?

thanks!

 

It is kinda tough to answer without a definitive reason to your problem...but...

IF the fan is not running due to the fuse that the rad fan and the PS fan sharing is blown, there is a few things you could do...

1) Do the wiring mod that the dealer did on many cars...(the instructions were floating around) this is the MINI fix...but the fan can still get jammed from grit...so a new fan, and keeping an eye on it is a great idea.

2)Just replace the fuse, fix the PS fan....easy to swap out...now you know the future symptoms...so if it happens, you know what is causing it. This route is popular, and if you remove the PS fan, when you do oil changes, and blow it out with compressed air, and add a drop of oil...it seems to be quite effective.

If you had an "S", MINI made a duct kit that could be retrofitted from the 06+ Gen1 cars, and this keeps the grit from destroying the fan....but since you don't have an "S", this is not an option.

IF you have the above problem, AND the LOW speed resistor has failed....
The fan needs to be replaced or the resistor changed...possible...there is a thread on this on this site, but I would do it as a DIY...the cost to get a mechanic to do the resistor is lily more than the cost of the replacement fan (aftermarket anyways).
Sure you could keep driving the car...but it is likely the AC compressor will fail....the car is running hot, and the pressures in the AC system is higher than designed...so many folks have the AC fail too....
Like I said....the OEM fan does not seem to have been improved...the aftermarket fan, while cheaper, seems to have a slightly different resistor design...and I have not yet heard of the resistor on the aftermarket fan failing...so if you use the OEM fan...the Resistor may fail again...leaving you with a short cycling high speed only fan....when the fan is functioning correctly, it is very quiet...and not noticeable. You did not state you have this problem, but the mechanic seems to think the fan is bad, or partially failed....and it is very likely that the fan has failed in this way....heck...it can be checked visually...the resistor has a wire wound around it that sags when it gets hot, and it shorts itself out....

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-solution.html
look towards the end of the thread for the resistor info....

 

So confusing - but nonetheless - you can't imagine how much much i appreciate your help! it's my first car and I'm not that handy with electrics at the best of times, so it's all new to me.

I did however believe that the Mini Cooper 1st Gen did NOT have a PS fan and that this was only found on the S type.

he's already ordered a new fan assembly unit from BMW... is this a bad idea?

so the resistor in question - is that part of the fan assembly unit? i.e. if the entire fan assembly unit is changed, so will be the old resistor for a new one? So to speak?

PS. Im pretty sure my car (Cooper Auto 2002) has only ever been on high speed fan setting as it kicks up (used to )one heck of a noise when the engine gets hot.. and would rumble on for about 2 minutes after the car was switched off to cool down - often quite embarrassingly lol.

 

Sounds like you needed a fan....so the OEM should be fine, kinda $$, but if that is what your guy uses, it should be fine. If you had a choice, the TYC is cheaper, and seems to be as good, maybe better, but getting your car back in service quickly is more likely a concern .....and YES, the NEW fan WILL HAVE A NEW RESISTOR, so it will function correctly. There was a change in the fans based on model year...the 02' were different from the 03+ ..so the production date (on the door data plate) matters..but the mechanic should have done this legwork. They are not interchangeable...but similar...the change was the relay was moved..so the wiring/plugs are different.
I'm 99% sure all gen 1 coopers had the PS fan (US cars anyway)....it should be checked at every oil-change...it is important to keep the $$ PS pump cool, so it does not fail prematurely....the failure could also be dangerous if it stops running at the wrong time too....
You might be able to call MINI/BMW and pull up the cars service records to see if the PS fan wiring change was done by the dealer.....it is possible.
An owner that know his way around the engine bay can tell too if he knows what to look for...the PS fan plug will be no longer used on the Radiator fan, or the plug will have been cut off, and taped off by the dealer when the mod was done....but unless you have seen the PS fan, and know what the plug looks like, and know the ends of the Radiator harness plugs, it might be tough to determine for a newbie.
Changing it is easy....two screws, and a plug.....but it is about $180 US, so it a pricey part...SPAL it Italy makes them....some folks have found cheaper places to buy them. A do it yourself-er (DIY) can save a few bucks, by replacing the fan, and reusing the bracket....it takes drilling out 4 rivets on the early cars, and using 4 screws....newer brackets use screws...

 

Thanks for the heads up on this.

"IF" my car does indeed have a PS fan, I'm sure BMW would have implemented this tweak, as the car has been serviced regularly and on time for the duration of its history, at, to my knowledge, official BMW service centres. Surely in 8 years of servicing, they'd have noticed this and done it??

Is this the sort of info I can just phone BMW for?? I doubt they'd have records of such a fix.. ?? But like I said, it's my first car, so I don't really know squat..


Assuming there is either NOT a PS fan, or it's working fine and then new rad fan gets installed and everything fan-wise is ok, what other things need to be done/checked after such a problem and fix?

I.e. you mentioned about bleeding the coolant?

 

When I did mine, it was due for a coolant change....most folks disconnect the upper Radiator hose when installing the fan...so it is a simple time to combine tasks....
I'm sure the shop knows how to do it. On the Just-a-Cooper, it is simpler than on an S.
If you call the dealership with the VIN#, I bet it is listed in the records if they did the change....in the US some dealers did it with out asking or telling people....some did it only when there was a "need", some never did it...so I am not sure what the situation is where you are. Folks in areas with snow+Ice....where sand and salt is used on the roads, or that drive on gravel seem to have more issues......
Our MINI's definitely have a few quirks....and knowing a few of them can save you $$, and save you some time in the shop....I would strongly recommend that you find a shop that is MINI centric....they will know all this stuff, so you will not have to learn it all....and be cheaper to get service done than the dealer too I bet!

 

Thanks again - really great info! Glad I found this Mini brotherhood across the pond !

Yup, I really do need a Mini-specialist - but garages in general are few and far between here in london, and most charges fortunes just to "look" and "diagnose"..

Before taking it into this mechanic, I tried one place who, as I was just about to hand my keys over, said that the hourly rate was £95 - just to find the problem - then + parts and fix labour! Astounding..

Although, the place im at atm is no bargan at £200 for the part + £280 for 4 hrs labour :(! LOL!

 

FYI all MINIs have a p/s fan so check it out and the fuse.
lots of good info from ZippyNH. it was just a bad design to have the p/s fan and rad fan on the same circuit hence the bulletin to re-wire the rad fan so the car won't overheat when the p/s fan locks up and blows the fuse..
as for diagnosis, at the dealer we hook up to the obd2 port, and use the tester to activate cooling fan stage 1 and stage 2, usually we'll see that stage 1 the fan doesn't come on but stage 2 works. like ZippyNH has mentioned, the resistor is the weak link and the main cause for the fan failing.
yes there is a trick to replacing the fan. we can do them in about an hour. pull bumper cover and support. remove the 2 round clips on the top corners of the rad. remove the upper rad hose and you should be able to tilt the rad forward enough to pull out the fan. it's really not as hard as some people make it out to be. because once you tilt the radiator forward, the fan just slides out, there's actually nothing holding the fan other than the four tabs that it clips into behind the radiator.. good luck!

 

The mechanic phoned me up today and told me that a new problem has arisen - he put the new fan in and apparently it was working fine and he told me to come and collect.

The I just received a call, after about an hour of hearing the good news and he's told me that now the fan WON'T switch off!!

Brand new fan from BMW and whole different problem :(!

He reckons it's a thermostat issue, but said the diagnostic tools they're using did NOT detect any thermostatic issues beforehand...

What could it be?? Any ideas?

Thanks :(

 

Check to see if the shop installed the right fan...that or the relay is stuck. You seem to be helping this shop lots...it might be wise to move on...the fan install should have been a 1.5 hr job, and that is comming from a Mini employee...they might be milking you for all you are worth as a first car owner, or just not very competent.
Good luck!!

 

I'm beginning to think so.

Just called him up and suggested what you told me and he said he's checked all of that (relay etc) and that the fault from the diagnosis tools (or something) suggests the temperature reading are inaccurate (I think that's what he said), so is waiting on the imminent delivery of a new thermostatic controller.

How does one move on when my car is in pieces with a new fan unit installed, which I owe for etc? It's really difficult position, so would be ideal if I can help them to resolve this.

I don't think he's billing me for this..

 

Again, it's the thermostatic switch (sounds like he is calling it a controller)that fails the vast majority of the time. Sounds like he finally figured that out. Sounds like you need a more experienced mechanic. This type of problem is not unique to Minis.

 

shark - do you think it was just that thermostatic controller and that I didn't actually need a whole new fan unit???

No one actually suggested this :(

 

also - ive got the car back now, after shelling out £500 (yes, sterling!), but I cant even know if its been fixed!!

The only way I can know is if I make the engine hot (long drive) right? Is there any other way I can test both fan speeds?