I'm afraid you're wrong about that left side tube. It and the one on the right side are both PCV tubes. It vents fumes from the cam cover to the manifold. It is not an intake from the manifold. By blocking that port with the BSH boost tap, all crankcase crud is pushed through the OCC before entering the intake air flow. Your right about the empty can. Without a vapor separator they don't do squat. I use the 42 Draft Design can. To my eyes it has the best internal design currently on the market. After 12K mine's working just fine thank you. The output hose from the can is dry.

 

Pics and diagrams

 

See my post #87 on this thread. Here's a pic of my OCC setup. If that's not what you mean by "diagrams", then go to realoem.com and BSH's site and see how and why they designed their dual boost port.

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...07-post24.html

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...60-post25.html

 

Hmmm. Well, does it seem odd to you that one hose goes into the lower side of the manifold and the other in the line just before the turbo. Very different pressures. The one before the turbo will always be vacuum, the one on the manifold would see either vacuum or pressure. They went to a lot of effort for two hoses going to different places. Just don't understand how this puppy is designed. BMW not releasing service manuals does not help. Anyone know what Peugeot uses the same engine? maybe a hint. I also find it odd that the parts index does not list a PCV valve. Without some valve assemble in the manifold, it can't be an exit. Connecting these lines would seem to do very odd and bad things.

Agree, 42d looks like a quality and well engineered device. A far cry from the $9 wonders all over e-bay!

 

I believe Peugeot uses this engine (with some modifications) in their 207 GTi/RC.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMAfwLCKfgU

 

Two hoses is a very typical PCV system setup. One brings in fresh air and one removes crankcase fumes.

Yes, under boost the turbo fresh air intake remains a vacuum, but the crankcase does not, so the flow through that hose reverses and the crankcase fumes that foul the intake valves now gets pulled into the turbo. That's why you need 2 cans for a 100% proper setup; one for each path. But boost conditions are in effect only a fraction of the time; that's why I'd give preference to the passenger side hose to the intake manifold.

Also, here's a pretty good set of videos that explain the purpose, and design evolution of a PCV system.
Moss Motors - PCV System

 

Quick question about excessive carbon build up....
I have an 07 MCS which started misfiring a couple of weeks ago. It's in the dealership now, and they want to take the whole intake apart to do a cleaning. 850 bucks worth of cleaning to remove the carbon? I am sitting at 55k and wondering if it is really as bad as they are saying it is. I did a couple of sea foam treatments, apparently it wasn't enough to help though.

 

Holy cow, 55K and needing a complete clean

 

I haven't priced it, myself, but I hear other places are much cheaper to do the same thing. Still going to hurt, though.

 

I was looking at having it done by another business, but I would still end up going to the dealer to reset the CEL light. The Tech, said the code was 20+ misfires on all cylinders, I said that was it? It drove 500 miles to the dealership! The only thing bothering me is I would like to see how bad the carbon actually is. It is hard to trust some of the service people just hearing some of the horror stories.

 

It depends. It could be just buildup on the valves which a cleaning will take care of. But, it definitely could be as bad as they say or worse. At around 30-40,000 miles our original engine needed a partial rebuild. The head had to be sent out to a machine shop to get all the carbon out. All the valves, pistons, intake manifold etc. had to be replaced. After another 30,000 they didn't even bother trying to clean anything, they just replaced the engine.

Ask them what work they perform for $850. I am guessing they will run cleaning fluid through the air intake and fuel system. They might remove the intake manifold and physically try to scrub the tops of the valves. I don't know if they would pull off the head and physically clean that for $850. I doubt they are going to replace any parts. Probably BG Products or something similar

The problem is that nobody knows the true extent of the problem at this point. All you can see now is the top of the valves. Unless they pull the engine apart and take a look a look into the cylinders and pistons (expensive) nobody really knows how far into the engine the carbon has infiltrated. If the carbon is just on the tops of the valves, cleaning will probably solve the problem. However if carbon is down in the cylinder and getting past the piston rings, that could be a bigger problem than cleaning alone cannot solve. Eventually there is going to be misfiring, and loss of compression. The cylinder will basically stop working.

You will have to advocate for your car to try to minimize your out of pocket. This is what I recommend you do:

- This process is going to take some time and effort on your part and there is no guarantee it will work. You have to be polite and cordial, but very firm. Keep records of your conversations.
- Do not take the car back from the dealer yet. Speak to the service manager and suggest that MINI/BMW should pay for the cleaning and any repairs. Let them know that you have maintained the car according to the manufacturer's recommendation (you have, right?) and that this carbon problem is caused by a design defect and is well known and common in many of the direct injection BMW/Peugeot 1.6 L turbo Prince engines. Suggest that they talk to the MINI/BMW regional rep to provide warranty/goodwill coverage. Ask to speak directly to the regional rep (not likely to happen, but worth a try). The dealer should have an incentive to do this because they will get paid by MINI/BMW for the work. It is very important to have the dealership on your side to advocate for your car. At some point somebody will say that this is a maintenance issue, or bad gas, or bad oil, or some such thing. Stick to your guns. If this was truly a maintenance issue, why isn't carbon cleaning listed in the owners manual or covered under the MINI service plan?
- Contact MINI/BMW North America and file a complaint with them about the problem. Repeat all the facts and suggest that MINI/BMW should cover any cleaning or repairs because this is a design defect. Customer service will try to act as an ombudsman. AFAIK, they actually have no authority to do anything. They will never admit that it's a design defect. They will give you the same "maintenance, bad gas, oil" corporate line. Stick to your guns and suggest MINI/BMW needs to make things right by you as an owner. Ask to speak to the regional rep or somebody with the authority to authorize a warranty/goodwill repair. It won't happen but you need to let them know that you are not giving up and you also know how the system works. If necessary escalate the issue to higher level customer support until you get someone who will advocate your position and contact the regional rep and the dealer service manager. Make sure you get names and extensions of everybody you talk to at MINI/BMW.
- If all else fails, do not take your car to a non-MINI garage to have the carbon cleaned out, and do not just DIY. Have the dealer do it. That way if there are problems down the road, MINI cannot claim you neglected the car by ignoring their recommendation, and they cannot blame a 3rd party for any problems. At that point, you can take the new problem and run it back up the chain with the dealer service manager and MINI/BMW. Another option is to find another MINI dealership with a more owner friendly service manager who will go to bat for you.

Good luck.

 

Strictly a 'turbo' or charged engine issue, or all engines/years? I have a non-boosted '10 and wonder if I am in for the same, somewhere down the road.
Thank you,

 

From what I've been able to dig up, it's beginning to appear that this problem is inherent to ALL direct fuel injection engines, not just BMW. It's also starting to look like all the manufactures are placing the blame on something the owner has done. Makes good business sense unless you're on the receiving end of it!

 

Are the 2010 Base Cooper engines direct injected?

IMHO the most likely theory/guess is that this seems to be a problem inherent in many if not all direct injection engines designs to some degree. In particular Audi and VW have had similar carbon buildup problems. Systems like the PCV and EGR system recirculate "dirty" air through the intake manifold and over the valves. This "dirty" air has oil, exhaust gases, maybe some unburnt fuel and other crap in it. In a port injected engine the injectors spray fresh fuel outside the cylinder so the valves are being "washed" by fuel which contains detergents. In a DI engine, the injectors are inside the cylinder and there is nothing washing down the backside of the valves. The oil and stuff in the intake air gets baked onto the backside of the valves.

Manufacturers like DI engines because they reduce pollution, increase fuel economy and power. The problems include carbon buildup and fuel dilution of the engine oil. Once the car is beyond warranty, these costs are passed onto the owner.

 

The most difficult part of it is I have had to fight with them over the cold start issue. When I made the appointment, the guy told me that the company knows about the problem, but neglects to do anything about it, so he said at the dealership they are working with people on the price of the fix for the cold start. When I told the tech about that he went through the roof. But today, he said they were going to cut me a break on the price of the fix. we will see I guess. The thing I don't understand is how they can justify having a customer pay for these parts and fixes. I know nobody likes to admit when they are wrong, but for a customers sake you would think they are more willing to help out.

 

Is that what it takes to light the CEL, 20+ misfires?
I've had 'superknock' codes before, but it hasn't lit the CEL (yet).

 

No.

 

This is, in fact, the case. I do not know exactly how "washed down" the oil is but the injector is strategically placed in the cylinder for maximum efficiency. This would be one more reason to have increased OCI's (compared to the factory recommendation). This coking issue is very interesting to me and very real....I think we will see increased incidences as time goes on. How bad or the depth should vary but it's something that I will be keeping a close eye on(Even though I have installed the BSH system).

 

Just to let everyone know the service tech is recommending the BMW fuel treatment every 3,000 miles. He said this would take care of any build up of the carbon in the fuel system. They gave me a 10% discount on all parts and labor, which isn't bad, but it isn't good either if it is a design problem. I will be making a few calls to the regional rep hopefully something comes of it though.

 

Brilliant. If that is indeed what you were told, RUN from this JAMF. "Carbon in the fuel system"? That's not the problem! Nor is there any way that there's any "carbon in the fuel system". The problem is carbon buildup on the intake valves, and fuel system cleaners are of no use on direct injected cars, as explained in numerous threads here ad nauseum.

 

Aside from the obvious (a fuel additive sold by BMW), exactly what is "BMW fuel treatment," and how does it differ from other fuel system cleaners like Techron...?