For the $6,000 repair on a relatively new car, I think he has the right to rant a bit... first post or 5000th.

Welcome to NAM! I'm sorry it didn't work out. I've had MANY more problems with my '06 MCS in the past 1.5 years than I ever did with the 7 year old Nissan Altima before it. I've also had more fun in the past 1.5 years than the previous 7 years in the Altima. For me, the MINI is worth the trade off, but I'll admit that I worry about the day when the problems & repair bills mount and I'm out of warranty.

It's unfortunate, and some might argue shameful, that a modern auto manufacturer can't seem to reliably put components into a car that would last 10+ years... especially major systems like the transmission.

 

...otherwise known as, the Bro™

 

Well, if your jet ski broke, wouldn't you replace it with a 25 foot boat?

 

The question is, is it a matter of "can't" or just the perception they don't feel the need to?

 

For me, I consider owning/driving a MINI sort of like gambling. It's realllllly fun while it's rolling, but when you start losing money, it's not so much fun anymore.

However, just like I love to gamble, I love my MINI, and that means I ride it out either way. I can't really complain about losing money when I knew I was gambling to start with.

And from that perspective, I know that's what bothers me the most about these sorts of threads. It's not very hard to do a couple hours of reading ot know EXACTLY what you are getting into with these cars - rattles, power steering issues, leaking motor mounts, strut towers mushrooming, and yes, even transmissions dying early. I knew what I was getting into long before I even ordered my MINI.

All of that, said, I'm not saying it makes it RIGHT that there are reliability issues. But I just think if you do research going in, it makes it more annoying when people get all "wah wah my power steering went out" or whatever happens. I can empathize, but I don't really sympathize, because I did my reseach and I don't really have a whole lot of pity on those who did not and are now expecting a riot to ensue from the enthusiast masses because *they* are suddenly having an issue.

Anyway, that probably was all really bitchy but it is my true feeling on it. It's annoying to me, as someone who did my homework extensively before buying my MINI, to listen to the whining of those who did not.

 

See...again, that's not true for those of us that bought the 02's and 03's.....when i got my MINI, MCO (NAM) was just starting up, and everyone loved their car. The problems didn't start popping up until later. So it has been upsetting for those posters as they slowly hear of more and more things that they should be slightly worried about while driving around their car.

I know I'm faced with quite the dilemma.....i love my MINI, but its 5 years old now and some big money problem becomes more and more likely as i drive it. Spending that much money to keep an unreliable car going doesn't seem worth it.....so I'm faced with selling a car i love and buying another car that may be more reliable.......not an easy decision.

 

I think a second, third and perhaps a fourth opinion would come into play if I was quoted $6k to fix a transmission. Rebuilts with warranties are far far less. Gotta empathize with the frustration though. As Popeye would say "Thats all I can stands, I can't stands no more.

 

I understand where you are coming from. I spent months researching, test driving, and stressing over which car to buy. I knew coming in that a MINI would have a higher probability of problems than some of the other cars I was looking at but I took the risk anyway because it was what I wanted.

There is never an excuse for a transmission going out after only 4 years but it can happen to ANY car. The important thing to me is how the company deals with problems its customers are having and whether they take efforts to improve reliability in subsequent model years. I'm not sure how MINI has done in the former as I've heard conflicting stories and I fortunately don't have any of my own. As for the latter, I know that MINIs got progressively better as the bugs were worked out. I imagine there are new bugs in the 07s and I imagine that those too will be worked out in the next couple years.

 

The original poster has the CVT.....the dealer refuses to rebuild a CVT because "it's too complicated" and no one has been able to find a transmission place that won't refuse for the same reason.

 

<hijack>

On a different note..

I like pie.

But not fruit pie.... Fruit should never, ever be cooked and hot fruit is an abomination.

Chocolate pie now... that's good eating. Yum.

Discuss...


</hijack>


...


Seriously... I worry about stuff like this for when I'm out of warranty. If I were faced with a $6k tranny repair out of warranty I'd be freaking out as well and would probably HAVE TO get rid of my beloved car. Of course, I'd at least try to leverage places like this first though - it can sometimes be startling what an happen when a community racks their collective brains to come up with a solutin, and sometimes a calm, measured discussion about stuff like this leads to positive company response. Sometimes. It would have been worth a shot, anyway, but I guess now it's too late.

Have fun with the Saturn, I guess. You'll be completely invisible and the car's only about 6% as fun to drive as the MINI (I've driven Vues several times), and you'll probably have other issues with it eventually (I know many people that traded away Saturns when they had issues liike you describe the MINI having). After all, ANY car can have mechanical issues or can be a tank - it doesn't matter of it's a $75k Mercedes or a $12k Hyundai...

Good luck!

 

<$0.02>
Adding data point: FWIW, my '03 CVT just took a dirt nap. At $6K, I told the dealer to keep it. CVT owners beware!

Ranting: Hello. My car is junk. Goodbye.

I'll see MLWagner's copious research, and raise her a heathly fear of new model cars. One reason I didn't jump right in back in '02 is that I value knowing the problems I'm buying into. Can't do that with a new model car. While nobody expects their 'new' car to puke, comparing a tranny that's been around in various forms for 50 years with a relatively new (and complex) concept that has been rarely implemented, much less expecting the same reliability from it, is 'unwise'.

Saturn Vue is a peach? Then again, I guess anything looks good when you're coming from a lemon.
</$0.02>

 

yeah, I waited all the way until 2006 to get MY MINI for the reason(s) you mention... Not that it's an excuse, but I'm wary of any "first generation" technology.

 

I like peaches

 

Somebody should have told him to stop hauling building materials and off-roading in his Mini

 

I doubt that too. Maybe it was a rant. That doesn't change the fact this it is one more data point about the unreliability of those transmissions.

Exactly, and this is more to the heart of my point. One of the major attractions I found of the MINI culture, one that in the past made is, IMO, so much better than some other car cultures, was the friendliness and helpfulness between owners.

Unfortunately, recently I see that anything or any magazine article that does not praise the almighty MINI is quickly discounted as something not worshipping at the altar of MINIland and hence, automatically, to be rejected. That's too bad because I didn't not see these attitude at all when I bought my car.

If the trend continues, the IMO, the MINI culture will suffer.

Let's interject some reality in here. The car was an 03. If you bought an 02 - 04 new, there was very little data and problems like mushrooming, car fires and the like ...there was little or no data. Rather, it was much more like a honeymoon period, at least when I started reading here. On the OL, it was a huge honeymoon. Some data didn't even appear until 2005, like the rust issue and cold start stumble being heavily reported.

It looks like you started here a year ago. The data base and collection of knowledge was then more than 4 years old. You cannot compare 4 years of data against a car one year old if bought in 03. The same is true for the R56. There is NO collective data set. While some information is available and more coming every day, there is probably no statistical meaningful set of data to do research. ... yet. I am a strong advocate of doing car research before buying, but in this case, this might not be true.

If I had a $6K bill on a car worth maybe $13 - 14K ... Maybe 40% of the value of the car? I would dump that car as fast as I could. IMO, that is outrageous. $6K for a tranny? It's not even the engine.

 

I would agree that if the car was an 02-03 bought new, then whatever. However, there have also been several threads by people lately who bought 07s new, and are selling them with like 2000 miles on the clock and looking for some sort of sympathy. I just don't have it. 1) it's a new MY and 2) it's a MINI. Do some reading before you buy. But I do have (some) sympathy for those who bought an 02-03 and are facing big ticket problems. Lesson of the day: MINI owners without an extended warranty are flapping in the wind.

I also think that the average person just doesn't know. They don't know that the first year or two of a model are usually unreliable. In buying the first year or two of a model, you can guarantee I'd be buying an extended warranty. In fact, I'm 95% certain I'll be buying one for my 06, because it's a CVT.

Here's a random question as a good consumer but not necessarily mechanically smart...does it HAVE to be a CVT that goes back into these cars? It can't be any other kind of tranny? I'm just thinking that for $6k (which I agree is on the low end of the estimates we've seen around here) it ought to be possible to do some retooling for a more reliable type of tranny. I don't know, just speaking out my rear end on that one.

 

I completely reject the idea that "I get what I deserve" if I buy a new model and it has problems. What I deserve is a good car for good money. I deserve improvements to actually be improvements. I deserve a company that stands behind it's product. I should not have to buy a warranty to ensure I get what I should get to begin with. If my car turns out to be a piece of crap, I don't plan on keeping it. This "I got what I deserve" logic is the same logic that holds it is my fault if my watch is stolen because I shouldn't have worn a watch.

 

I agree that you right, LynnEl. I completely agree that that's how it SHOULD be. However, I live in reality. Rather than screaming to the dealership (which, those who have done it know it doesn't do much), I'd rather have the peace of mind in knowing I covered my own ***.

It might just be a part of my OCD nature, I don't know...but I'm very much someone who lives by the "if you want it done right, do it yourself" mantra. For me, that means buying an extended warranty for a car that I know has a history of issues and not-so-perfect reliability, rather than blindly insisting "it should just work". Because that insistance is going to get you nowhere when something goes wrong, where the warranty will cover the repair.

Honestly, I get your point. You pay $25k+ for a car, it should work. And it should work for longer than 4 years without some major component crapping out. I get it, and I agree. But I also have witnessed on these forums how BMW/MINI works post-warranty, and those are some dice I'm not willing to roll. I may end up with a not-so-reliable car (a gamble I'm willing to take), but at least I won't be out $6k+ for a new tranny (a gamble I'm not willing to take).

And I say all of this standing by my original point, which was that if you are NOT one of those people who are willing to deal with the issues, the you shouldn't buy the car. While in a nice perfect fuzzy world you shouldn't have to worry about things going wrong with your new car, it's NOT a nice perfect fuzzy world and we all know these cars have issues. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, and all that...

 

It's more an issue of risk. To follow the watch analogy, if you set your watch down on a table and then go to the pool and return to find it gone, you didn't 'deserve' to have to stolen, but you took additional risk by leaving it unattended.

The CVT is new technology. New technology is inherently more risky. You can mitigate that risk by buying an extended warranty, or simply avoid the more risky technology. In 2003 you could not choose a conventional automatic in a MINI, so you either took a risk with the CVT, or avoided that risk and bought a different car.

Sadly, even the Midlands conventional gearbox didn't prove as reliable as one would expect.
Hey, Jaguars have been braking down for years, but people keep buying them...

 

I think you made the right choice in going with the saturn, you should be used to crumbby cars as you were once a ford driver and saturns are pretty cool and fun cars....pause not....

 

So, when something goes wrong, we're just supposed to bow are heads and say we are sorry for having bought your product. It's our fault. That certainly is a way to encourage a manufacturer to build a more reliable car.

 

Yes, and if I didn't follow the instruction manual, or drove the vehicle harder than I ought to (the leaving the watch on the table), your analogy would fit. But, if I am wearing the watch, it's another matter.

 

minis come with risk as do many things worth while or worth attaining in my book so if your not happy with ur mini ...beleive me i would understand my entire ENGINE blew the first 3 months i had my old jcw ....i got it fixed though because i love my mini and all that its about good and bad ....i wouldnt trade my car for any car out right now short of luxury or sport cars ..and sure as hell not a saturn or ford ...so if you are ranting about the mini being a BAD buy then try to imagine all the incesant problems fords and saturns have had over the years as well . buddy you shouldve researched the car more before you bought it ....but most wouldnt expect that because not too many do any valued research on cars they buy... they take a 5 min test drive and decide if the car is cute or fast and dumb stuff like ohhhh cup holders or ohhhh niceeee the car has keyless entry ......look past the vanity and buy a something you know about and in turn you wont be suprised if certain issues arise like with the mini !

 

If reliability is your primary goal, buying a new model car is not the best way to achieve that goal. While they certainly try, no amount of testing can uncover all the bugs, or establish longevity of newly designed parts, production assemblies and methods. That may not be right, but it has proven to be the case.
The MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) is just that, a mean. Some go earlier, some later. Even $180K Ferraris break down, so it's not like even money can guarantee you a trouble free vehicle.
BMW provided a 4 year/50K warranty. If one wants to protect themselves for longer, BMW will provide that service for a fee. Do they EXPECT every car to break down at 4.1year/51K? No, but for the price of the vehicle, they are only willing to guarantee it for that period of time.

With any purchase, you take a chance. That's why companies with good reliability records can sell more product.

 

Hi! Bye!

As for MINI bashing/worship, reliability issues and whatnot, here is my tuppence. From the OP's perrspective, had I gotten a new car and had to pay such an outrageous sum of money to replace the transmission, I would definitely have a soured 'relationship' with the car and want out. I cant fault him for that. Granted, he might have been able to learn more had he gotten into NAM interactively earlier on, and the hi/bye post did not contribute much other than start this discussion (valid though it is). MINIs are not on average the most reliable things either, with a big spread between those who's cars have been trouble free to ones that seem to fall apart every week. Mine falls (luckily) into the more reliable camp, but has not been issue free by a long shot. I'm in the fortunate position to be able to do anything needed as far as repairs on the car by myself. I have found the parts prices for MINI are not too much higher than average, except when it comes to major parts like engines and transmissions. Trannies in particular are not treated as a servicable item, but are exchange/rebuilds instead, and not the cheapest either. By far the biggest culprit in the high service cost for MINI is BMW themselves. There seems to be little difference in cost in replacing a transmission in a MINI vs. a 528. High per-hour rates and a somewhat callous regard for the owner demographic add to the costs.

My perception of my car's reliability has been tainted a bit from reading horror stories here on NAM (and MINI2). I consider myself fortunate that I have yet to have anything serious happen to the car, though admittedly it's sitting unused due to bad suspension bushings I have yet to deal with (and should never have happened on such a new car). I have more worries centered around this car than any others I have owned. The thing that almost kept me from buying the MINI was BMW. BMW is one of the most difficult brands I have encountered as far as getting service info and 'tunability'.

However, it's two reasons why I keep it. First, it's damn fun to drive. Nothing else I have driven lately has such a 'fun factor', along with so much 'cool'. The other is the MINI community, which was an unexpected bonus. The cars are still rather unique, even after 6 or so years of being on the market. Given this, the good far outweighed the bad.