My feeling is that sig images and texts, as long as they follow the site guidelines and are not obtrusive (too large, or wildly animated) are acceptable. Being that this is a mostly MINI related forum save for OT, the MINI sigs should follow suit. You can easily post a different sig in OT. In general, politically motivated (i.e. campaign) sigs fall under the same rules against unauthorized sponsorship and marketing advertisements.

I would hate to see many of the creative MINI sig graphics axed in an attempt to enforce a rule against a certain kind.

Political ads and opinions are fine in OT, but are unnecessary and disruptive in the other forums.

 

Guess I'll weigh in on this discussion as well...

I personally don't have a problem with people being given latitude on what they include in their signatures. That said, as soon as it starts to create problems for the site as a whole through people flaming one another, personal insults, attacks, etc I do have a problem with it. I very much believe in free speech and the freedoms we enjoy in this country but if someone takes one of those privileges and twists them to meet some special agenda, that is to the detriment of this community, then that privilege will likely be restricted in some way. In other words... The moderators and I will provide you plenty of rope...if you use it in good faith you can make a basket out of it...if you use it to derail the site it can end up hanging you.

Hope this helps

Best regards,

Mark

 

>>>>Political ads and opinions are fine in OT, but are unnecessary and disruptive in the other forums.

OK. Dad.

 

Wow, what a question. To ban freedom of expression in favor of harmony or to support freedom of speech with the risk of political, social, or sexual affilliation causing divisions in the community. I'll be honest, I would lean towards the freedom of expression choice. If people can behave in an adult manner the message portrayed in the sig line won't become a problem. Hey, I have friends who are DEMOCRATS for cryin out loud and we get along great, we just don't talk politics. Mark can do what he wants but I don't think I would ban personal sigs as long they are not offensive to a REASONABLE adult.

Respectfully submitted IMHO

 

>>If Mark wants to create guidelines regarding what can appear in sigs, that's his right as the owner of this site; it's not censorship.


>>
>>So censorship? Yeah. That is a great idea. Censor part of the site.
>>Maybe we should add a forum for Politics, Sex, Drugs and Rock and
>>Roll? And then label it Eighteen and Over, please?
>>

Did you miss this sentence? Censorship is the limitation of public speech. This web site is private.

 

>>
>>Did you miss this sentence? Censorship is the limitation of public speech. This web site is private.

Define privates...oops I mean private.

 

>>Guess I'll weigh in on this discussion as well...
>>...
>>Mark

Well said, Mark. You have invited me into your house, I play by your rules. If I get outta line, make sure I know about it.

 

wow, seems like I stirred a bit of a hornets nest with my question.
Well, nothing like having a bit of a healthy discussion.

Allow me to add a few more thoughts and comments:

I am all in favor of freedom of expression, and many other freedoms. At the same time, these freedoms come - in my view - with the implicit responsibility of treating other folks around you nicely (again, this is only my opinion), in other words, if you have and enjoy ample freedoms, it would also be nice to show some consideration of and respect for others around you. Like Mark said, plenty of leeway is great, and in fact, not regulating sigs would be by far the preferred way to go, IMHO, which is why I suggested that we as users adopt a simple little bit of moderation, just in order to be considerate of one another.
I don't think this discussion, or even posing the question, can be or should be construed as attempt of censorship or restricting individual freedoms. You can display all you want in off topic (within site guidelines), and you can of course do that in other forums as well. But, you should be considerate of others in doing so. One way to find out what behavior is in fact considerate of others, and what is not, is to discuss this through threads like this one.
My intent was to state my view that political slogans in forums other than off topic are something I would prefer not to see, and I wanted to see how the majority of NAMers felt. That way, we could provide a gentle reminder to some that it may be nicer (as in more considerate) to restrict certain things to off topic. That's it. This would avoid even having to discuss regulating sigs. I don't think such a polling can be seen as restricting individual freedoms.

M.


_________________
Celeste: 03 EB/W MCS, cold, premium, sports a la carte w. W16"V, Lapis, HK, Forge coolant tank, Alta 22mm SB, saddlebags, interior trim in EB, euro shelf

 

>>Well said, Mark. You have invited me into your house, I play by your rules. If I get outta line, make sure I know about it.

Personally I don't like a lot of rules...and I like having to enforce them even less. I expect that everyone can act maturely and constructively on the site. That said, if something on the site is abused and starts taking up time I could be spending improving the site in some way I, and the other moderators, will act to resolve the issue as quickly as possible.

Mark

 

Dang me....

 

>>>>
>>>>Did you miss this sentence? Censorship is the limitation of public speech. This web site is private.
>>
>>Define privates...oops I mean private.
>>

Just like Greatbear said, it's Mark's house, and he makes the rules. He has the right to control the content on his sight. That doesn't mean you don't have the right to say whatever you want in public, generally speaking, or the right to make your own site with pictures of Rumsfeld and Cheney driving MINIs.

The internet as a whole is public, but individual site owners have the right to control the content and access to their own sites. If I write a book, I get to say whatever I want in the book. But that doesn't prevent you from writing your own competing book. If you try to write in my book, and I prevent you, that's not censorship. When some third party comes along and starts burning both of our books, that's censorship.

And privates are the things in your pants, if you're wearing pants, that is. If not, John Ashcroft is going to come over to your house and put a big fig leaf over your privates.

 

>>>And privates are the things in your pants, if you're wearing pants, that is. If not, John Ashcroft is going to come over to your house and put a big fig leaf over your privates.


Touche.

 

Mark, I applaud you having one of the least restrictive, self-policing and mature forums out there. Except for a few people who come in and push the hot buttons for attention or their own enjoyment, the vast majority here coexist with each other despite their widely dissimilar beliefs and views. I might not agree with some of the people here on some topics, but I am glad we all can come here to share them. Change that, and you have diminished this community.

 

this discussion started because someone posted a sig with the name of a political candidate...nothing more. The issue raised during the 2 pages of response is seemingly by persons who disagree with that candidate/party and therefore want it removed or to change the rules...the squeaky wheels (to put it in automotive context and therefore keeping it relevant)

 

There are plenty of political web sites to express your political views. As a right wing conservative the last thing I need to deal with on this site is Bush bashing. Therefore, I'm happy to also do without any Bush promoting. Let's keep it MINI and go to other sites to discuss our political views.

I don't care what your politics are when I'm discussing my MINI and I hope folks feel the same about me. If we let the site become political it will make it a less enjoyable place to visit.


R.E.

 

I'm with 2minis on this one. My elevator tells me to watch TV shows. My gas pump tells me how great Hess is. And an awful lot of front yards are going to be sporting political signs in the coming year. It's annoying, but it's reality. Advertising of all kinds is absolutely everywhere at this point, and I think that expecting MCO to be an oasis from that is a bit utopian and unrealistic. Just use your tuning-out skills, which necessarily become sharper and sharper every year.

It would be one thing if people had sig images of aborted fetuses, or Jesse Jackson with a swastika tattoed on his forehead. THAT would be a reason to be upset. A simple political logo is no biggie. There are lots of things that I'd PREFER not to see in people's sigs, but making a rule is only going to agitate everyone.
_________________

 

Um, ZAK, maybe I've been reading a different thread than you've been reading, but it seems like most of the discussion here has been AGAINST banning political signatures. I admitted that my initial reaction was knee-jerky in nature and was because of my own political affiliation. And you obviously haven't read all of the threads in OT if you you think that this board leans hard to the left. It's pretty much right down the middle by-and-large, IMHO.

 

>>I don't like them either. Especially since there has never been nor will there ever be a politician that can be trusted.

I am probably more political than most of the people on this site, however, lets keep it MINI and not get into politics. I have read a couple of posts (some were on a different subject just asking if people were political or not) that I total disagree with.

Lets keep an eye on Arnold in Ca. He has terminiated the trippling of the car tax

Earl

 

>>There are plenty of political web sites to express your political views. As a right wing conservative the last thing I need to deal with on this site is Bush bashing. Therefore, I'm happy to also do without any Bush promoting. Let's keep it MINI and go to other sites to discuss our political views.
>>
>>I don't care what your politics are when I'm discussing my MINI and I hope folks feel the same about me. If we let the site become political it will make it a less enjoyable place to visit.
>>
>>
>>R.E.
>>
>>
>>
>>

I am always confused by the word irony.
Is this ironic?
Seriously...any scholars out there?

 

My PERSONAL feelings concerning sigs is that you can put whatever you want in them, I dont care. I mostly complain about them being too large or with crazy animation that makes navigating the thread more difficult than it has to be. Content, I could care less about.

 

No that's not at all why I suggested pulling sigs outright. I have no problem with somebody supporting the currently administration and publicly displaying that. That's regardless of my own opinions of the administration (and if you want to know how I feel take a trip over to Off Topic).

But a lot of people consider homosexuality morally reprehensible. I do know that there are some homosexual MINI owners. What happens when they start declaring their pride for being gay in their sig picture.

What about the person who puts "May god Bless Me" or "WWJD" in their sig? Somebody who's Jewish or Muslem might take issue with that. How do you deal with it?

These are situations that just get stickier and stickier. That's why I suggest doing away with the images...

 

>>Um, ZAK, maybe I've been reading a different thread than you've been reading, but it seems like most of the discussion here has been AGAINST banning political signatures. I admitted that my initial reaction was knee-jerky in nature and was because of my own political affiliation. And you obviously haven't read all of the threads in OT if you you think that this board leans hard to the left. It's pretty much right down the middle by-and-large, IMHO.
>>
>>
um, no, obviously I don't read all the OT threads for just this type of issue

ain't America great?

_________________

 

>>ain't America great?

Yep. It still is. :smile:

 

BTW...love the new sig, 2minis!

 

>>>>ain't America great?
>>
>>Yep. It still is. :smile:

..and will always be...