Legals issues for MCO, businesses with MINI in their names,
For me it's the (as far as we know) fact that BMW does not seem to be going after any other MINI named website which makes me think that this might be an internet style land grab... one would think that MINI2 would be first on the block, as it's the biggest one out there...
Rocketboy_X
Rocketboy_X
Here is what I'm posting on my car tomorrow and Saturday at the IRL go-kart event that I and other STLMINI club owner's are going to be at:
If anyone wants a copy, you can find it here:
MINI Cooper Signs
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If anyone wants a copy, you can find it here:
MINI Cooper Signs
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>>Here is what I'm posting on my car tomorrow and Saturday at the IRL go-kart event that I and other STLMINI club owner's are going to be at:
>>
>>If anyone wants a copy, you can find it here:
>>
>>MINI Cooper Signs
>>
>>_________________
Thanks for the doc, it will be on my car when I go in for service.
X2
>>
>>If anyone wants a copy, you can find it here:
>>
>>MINI Cooper Signs
>>
>>_________________
Thanks for the doc, it will be on my car when I go in for service.
X2
BMW definitely wants the mini-motion.com name. Have you gone to http://www.minimotion.com? It is a legitimate, non-car-related website. The owners Steve Weller and Tori West are either going to have their domain stolen from them or make a bunch of money selling it to BMW.
James, signer #311
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James & Jigna in Orlando, Florida: "Howard", 2003 MINI Cooper, Indi Blue/White Top and 16" 5-Star Wheels, Premium Package, CVT, Panther Black Leather, Xenon, and HK 8 Speaker Stereo.
James, signer #311
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James & Jigna in Orlando, Florida: "Howard", 2003 MINI Cooper, Indi Blue/White Top and 16" 5-Star Wheels, Premium Package, CVT, Panther Black Leather, Xenon, and HK 8 Speaker Stereo.
laclede, wow, very nice! And great idea, X2 - I'm putting one on my car when I go in for my 10k service, which should be in the next month or so...
And I've seen 100+ guests on MCO pretty consistently for the past couple of days now... :smile:
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And I've seen 100+ guests on MCO pretty consistently for the past couple of days now... :smile:
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By no means am I any kind of expert at this sort of thing, but after reading through all 22 pages of the thread and the petition (which I signed), I'd like to make a one small suggestion.
The petition properly emphasizes the spirit of the MCO community, the informal promotion work, etc, but doesn't mention that a good number of people have bought MINIs because of the forums on this site. I'm planning to buy one later this year, and I can honestly say that I'm choosing an MC over the RSX, WRX, and Evo VIII only because of the good folks here. Marketing propaganda doesn't mean a thing to me; actual owner commentary does. Sure, The Italian Job, Goldmember, and the "hey, that car's cool" effect all move cars, but this site is big enough (and the MINI supply small enough) that MCO MUST account for a measurable percentage of sales.
Money is what gets corporate's attention - emphasize that MCO actually MAKES money for BMWNA and STRENGTHENS their precious brand, and you'll get a lot farther.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck, and I applaud your willingness to fight for what's yours.
The petition properly emphasizes the spirit of the MCO community, the informal promotion work, etc, but doesn't mention that a good number of people have bought MINIs because of the forums on this site. I'm planning to buy one later this year, and I can honestly say that I'm choosing an MC over the RSX, WRX, and Evo VIII only because of the good folks here. Marketing propaganda doesn't mean a thing to me; actual owner commentary does. Sure, The Italian Job, Goldmember, and the "hey, that car's cool" effect all move cars, but this site is big enough (and the MINI supply small enough) that MCO MUST account for a measurable percentage of sales.
Money is what gets corporate's attention - emphasize that MCO actually MAKES money for BMWNA and STRENGTHENS their precious brand, and you'll get a lot farther.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck, and I applaud your willingness to fight for what's yours.
I would suggest that you vote with your feet. Go to the PUMA site http://about.puma.com/ and express to them that you will NOT buy any Puma products due to the aggresive nature of their partner BMWNA.
Joe
Joe
This came out of the thread on VWvortex about MINI COOPER Online. vwvortex1 is the creator of VWvortex which is a VW enthusiast site with 100,000+ members.
The following reply was posted by vwvortex1:
Quite frankly you can blame our legal system and its vague laws concerning protecting a trademark. Basically the law says you have to "actively" protect your trademark or you could face potentially losing it to public domain. The problem is that they don't define what "active" is and that is open to intrepretation by the legal teams at these companies - some play the strict line others are more loose about it.
At the end of the day Mini does have a right to protect their name. However some of the ways companies go about doing this sort of thing will just hurt them in the end (temporarily till the whole thing passes however). When they don't try to work with the site/publication and only pursue a hardline tactic with threatening letters, they are just going to look like the bad guys. To make it worse, there are now "bounty hunter" law firms out there that work under contract for a corporation and, on behalf of that manufacturer will actively look for websites that are using a model name, manufacturer's name or any other trademark that is being infringed and will send a cease and desist letter to them demanding they stop use and turn it over to them. For eveyone one they turn over back to the manufacturer they get a nice bounty of money. So what happens is that an outside law firm is likely only going to take the hardline and likely cause damage to the brand's name in the process.
I think the manufacturers are trying to get their hands around how best to handle the whole Internet thing. VW's new program to register to "use" a VW logo on an enthusiast website is very proactive and the only manufacturer I know of that has done something like this. Hopefully more manufacturers follow suit in the future and help to forge a better relationship with the companies and enthusiast groups that keep their brands alive.
- jamie
Quite frankly you can blame our legal system and its vague laws concerning protecting a trademark. Basically the law says you have to "actively" protect your trademark or you could face potentially losing it to public domain. The problem is that they don't define what "active" is and that is open to intrepretation by the legal teams at these companies - some play the strict line others are more loose about it.
At the end of the day Mini does have a right to protect their name. However some of the ways companies go about doing this sort of thing will just hurt them in the end (temporarily till the whole thing passes however). When they don't try to work with the site/publication and only pursue a hardline tactic with threatening letters, they are just going to look like the bad guys. To make it worse, there are now "bounty hunter" law firms out there that work under contract for a corporation and, on behalf of that manufacturer will actively look for websites that are using a model name, manufacturer's name or any other trademark that is being infringed and will send a cease and desist letter to them demanding they stop use and turn it over to them. For eveyone one they turn over back to the manufacturer they get a nice bounty of money. So what happens is that an outside law firm is likely only going to take the hardline and likely cause damage to the brand's name in the process.
I think the manufacturers are trying to get their hands around how best to handle the whole Internet thing. VW's new program to register to "use" a VW logo on an enthusiast website is very proactive and the only manufacturer I know of that has done something like this. Hopefully more manufacturers follow suit in the future and help to forge a better relationship with the companies and enthusiast groups that keep their brands alive.
- jamie
Mark,
the quote posted below would suggest another possible approach to the problem:
How about proposing to BMW of NA to allow you to use MINI in the domain name and keep minicooperonline as a name, in exchange for registering the use and paying a small (nominal) fee to BMW NA for the use of the name MINI?
This might satisfy everyone: BMW retains the right and control over the name, and you get to use it. The fee should be small, maybe even a token $1 per year. That way BMW can control who gets to use the name, and who not. For all practical purposes, BMW of NA would license the use of the term MINI to you for a token fee.
Cheers,
Markus
>>This came out of the thread on VWvortex about MINI COOPER Online. vwvortex1 is the creator of VWvortex which is a VW enthusiast site with 100,000+ members.
>>
>>
>>
>>
the quote posted below would suggest another possible approach to the problem:
How about proposing to BMW of NA to allow you to use MINI in the domain name and keep minicooperonline as a name, in exchange for registering the use and paying a small (nominal) fee to BMW NA for the use of the name MINI?
This might satisfy everyone: BMW retains the right and control over the name, and you get to use it. The fee should be small, maybe even a token $1 per year. That way BMW can control who gets to use the name, and who not. For all practical purposes, BMW of NA would license the use of the term MINI to you for a token fee.
Cheers,
Markus
>>This came out of the thread on VWvortex about MINI COOPER Online. vwvortex1 is the creator of VWvortex which is a VW enthusiast site with 100,000+ members.
>>
>>
The following reply was posted by vwvortex1:
>>
>>Quite frankly you can blame our legal system and its vague laws concerning protecting a trademark. Basically the law says you have to "actively" protect your trademark or you could face potentially losing it to public domain. The problem is that they don't define what "active" is and that is open to intrepretation by the legal teams at these companies - some play the strict line others are more loose about it.
>>
>>At the end of the day Mini does have a right to protect their name. However some of the ways companies go about doing this sort of thing will just hurt them in the end (temporarily till the whole thing passes however). When they don't try to work with the site/publication and only pursue a hardline tactic with threatening letters, they are just going to look like the bad guys. To make it worse, there are now "bounty hunter" law firms out there that work under contract for a corporation and, on behalf of that manufacturer will actively look for websites that are using a model name, manufacturer's name or any other trademark that is being infringed and will send a cease and desist letter to them demanding they stop use and turn it over to them. For eveyone one they turn over back to the manufacturer they get a nice bounty of money. So what happens is that an outside law firm is likely only going to take the hardline and likely cause damage to the brand's name in the process.
>>
>>I think the manufacturers are trying to get their hands around how best to handle the whole Internet thing. VW's new program to register to "use" a VW logo on an enthusiast website is very proactive and the only manufacturer I know of that has done something like this. Hopefully more manufacturers follow suit in the future and help to forge a better relationship with the companies and enthusiast groups that keep their brands alive.
>>
>>- jamie
>>
>>Quite frankly you can blame our legal system and its vague laws concerning protecting a trademark. Basically the law says you have to "actively" protect your trademark or you could face potentially losing it to public domain. The problem is that they don't define what "active" is and that is open to intrepretation by the legal teams at these companies - some play the strict line others are more loose about it.
>>
>>At the end of the day Mini does have a right to protect their name. However some of the ways companies go about doing this sort of thing will just hurt them in the end (temporarily till the whole thing passes however). When they don't try to work with the site/publication and only pursue a hardline tactic with threatening letters, they are just going to look like the bad guys. To make it worse, there are now "bounty hunter" law firms out there that work under contract for a corporation and, on behalf of that manufacturer will actively look for websites that are using a model name, manufacturer's name or any other trademark that is being infringed and will send a cease and desist letter to them demanding they stop use and turn it over to them. For eveyone one they turn over back to the manufacturer they get a nice bounty of money. So what happens is that an outside law firm is likely only going to take the hardline and likely cause damage to the brand's name in the process.
>>
>>I think the manufacturers are trying to get their hands around how best to handle the whole Internet thing. VW's new program to register to "use" a VW logo on an enthusiast website is very proactive and the only manufacturer I know of that has done something like this. Hopefully more manufacturers follow suit in the future and help to forge a better relationship with the companies and enthusiast groups that keep their brands alive.
>>
>>- jamie
>>
>>>>Here is what I'm posting on my car tomorrow and Saturday at the IRL go-kart event that I and other STLMINI club owner's are going to be at:
>>>>
Thanks for the sign. My first oil change is scheduled for next Friday, Aug. 15th. I might just loop around Morristown circle in my signed/de-badged MINI for a while before and after the service to get some attention.
>>>>
Thanks for the sign. My first oil change is scheduled for next Friday, Aug. 15th. I might just loop around Morristown circle in my signed/de-badged MINI for a while before and after the service to get some attention.
Just a suggestion, but shorten that damn letter. NO ONE will ever read it at its current length. Make it one, simple paragraph under 50 words (more or less, the threshold they use in magazine advertisements).
Well when it comes to a distaste for "corporate crap" BMW is far from the first company on the list of companies that are currently soing unmentionables to me "in a very uncomfortable place" (go see Mall Rats).
Welcome to America, unfortunately at this time corporate entities have the status of dieties and have powers to match. If you cross them they send the Inquisition (their legal staff) to burn you in the street if you do not comply to their dogma.
This issue is so beyond Mini/BMWUSA that I have, now having signed the petition, decided to let things take their course. In science-fiction many authors write of a time where the legal system is tossed out on it's proverbial buttocks. This is related to and caused by feelings towards this type of action being taken by Corporations and supported and promoted by the legal community. I cannot count the number of times in a year thet I hae told my lawyer (paraphrased) "Well thank you for telling me my rights in this, but this is how me and the other party have chosen to proceed and we are both satisfied with this resolution." Heck, this is currently going on with my divorce. My soon to be ex-wife and I struggle for me to find a lawyer that will allow me to pay what I feel is "nice and good", where she struggles to find a lawyer who does not want to line their pockets with my money.
I'm not saying I do not have a problem with this issue, I'm saying that this is another small part of a larger disease upon western society.
Welcome to America, unfortunately at this time corporate entities have the status of dieties and have powers to match. If you cross them they send the Inquisition (their legal staff) to burn you in the street if you do not comply to their dogma.
This issue is so beyond Mini/BMWUSA that I have, now having signed the petition, decided to let things take their course. In science-fiction many authors write of a time where the legal system is tossed out on it's proverbial buttocks. This is related to and caused by feelings towards this type of action being taken by Corporations and supported and promoted by the legal community. I cannot count the number of times in a year thet I hae told my lawyer (paraphrased) "Well thank you for telling me my rights in this, but this is how me and the other party have chosen to proceed and we are both satisfied with this resolution." Heck, this is currently going on with my divorce. My soon to be ex-wife and I struggle for me to find a lawyer that will allow me to pay what I feel is "nice and good", where she struggles to find a lawyer who does not want to line their pockets with my money.
I'm not saying I do not have a problem with this issue, I'm saying that this is another small part of a larger disease upon western society.
I was the one who tipped them off on the story. I have a mpeg video clip of the segment, if mco wants to host it.
>>fairly cool with the techTV attention. From the techlive website :
>>
>>
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>>Links right back to this thread and to the petition!
>>
>>I'll be watching tonight!
>>fairly cool with the techTV attention. From the techlive website :
>>
>>

>>
>>Links right back to this thread and to the petition!
>>
>>I'll be watching tonight!
>>laclede, may i put a link on http://www.iniw.com to your signs?
Feel free... more power to you!!!
Feel free... more power to you!!!
>>I was the one who tipped them off on the story. I have a mpeg video clip of the segment, if mco wants to host it.
If you can get it to me, I'd be more than happy to host it up on my psudo site...
Rocketboy_X
If you can get it to me, I'd be more than happy to host it up on my psudo site...
Rocketboy_X
>>Just a suggestion, but shorten that damn letter. NO ONE will ever read it at its current length. Make it one, simple paragraph under 50 words (more or less, the threshold they use in magazine advertisements).
>>
I agree. Shorter is better. And, FWIW, 'commonplace' is one word.
>>
I agree. Shorter is better. And, FWIW, 'commonplace' is one word.
>>I agree. Shorter is better. And, FWIW, 'commonplace' is one word.
Fixed the typo, and there is a shortened version as well now:
Click Here for the files
Looks good!
I have two more edits, if you're interested:
drop "Let's be innovative and not let anyone else." It doesn't seem to fit for some reason.
Also, all-mighty reads better with a dash.
This is what I put as a comment after my sig on the petition:
Feel free to use any of it if you like.
I have two more edits, if you're interested:
drop "Let's be innovative and not let anyone else." It doesn't seem to fit for some reason.
Also, all-mighty reads better with a dash.
This is what I put as a comment after my sig on the petition:
Let's not endorse our own philosophy. Let's disrespect our biggest fans. Let's tread on the little guy. Shame on you BMW/NA!!
#4 on the petition.
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Treasurer, SCMM | paul@scmm.org | Future MINI owner: [insert name here] Who the hell knows what it will look like??!!
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Treasurer, SCMM | paul@scmm.org | Future MINI owner: [insert name here] Who the hell knows what it will look like??!!


