Legals issues for MCO, businesses with MINI in their names,

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Aug 5, 2003 | 11:15 PM

#426

ovrkll

2nd Gear

Joined: Jun 2003

Posts: 97

Likes: 0

From: Marietta, GA

>>I'm not suggesting that kind of radical action, but if you do debadge, send them to MINI USA one at a time. Perhaps a steady stream of castoffs will make an impression.
>>
>>Besides, then we would have to replace them with something that would make a statement - anyone know where a supply of Yugo badges can be found? Or have they all corroded into dust. I know, I know - bad idea, but it's late. I have an excuse, they don't.
>>

Could always use VW or Chrysler badges which are common mistaken identities of our (whoops) BMW's MINI.

Cheers!

Aug 5, 2003 | 11:24 PM

#427

rfibanez

Banned

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,890

Likes: 0

From: So Cal

>>I still believe, a NATIONAL Day of MINIUSA/BMWNA Protest is in order...
>>Coast to Coast... CNN CNBC CSPAN FOX HEADLINE NEWS GOOD MORNING AMERICA TODAY JAY LENO AND ON AND ON AND ON... can't hurt.
>>
>>
>>Just so long as we are all orderly, friendly and organized.
>>
>> Public sidewalks outside of Dealerships are PUBLIC and not illegal to be on... preventing potential buyers from buying. Scaring away the customer... Think they would notice us then?
>>

Thats a great idea! Hit them where it hurts!

Aug 6, 2003 | 12:26 AM

#428

Xanthus

Coordinator :: South East - Florida

Joined: Jun 2003

Posts: 1,603

Likes: 0

From: Tampa, FL

Bump and get your signatures on the petition http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...ed.cgi?mco0803

Aug 6, 2003 | 12:35 AM

#429

mightyMiniz

Banned

Joined: Apr 2002

Posts: 1,805

Likes: 0

From: Los Angeles, Ca

Aug 6, 2003 | 12:39 AM

#430

MINIclo

7th Gear Gal

Joined: Jul 2002

Posts: 36,087

Likes: 3

From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)

Cheers!
Clover

Aug 6, 2003 | 01:25 AM

#431

mightyMiniz

Banned

Joined: Apr 2002

Posts: 1,805

Likes: 0

From: Los Angeles, Ca

Mini Trademark Listings

------

Looks like someone TradeMarked the Word Mini ALSO-----
ark
MC MINI WINGS

Goods and Services
IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: How to booklet for making paper airplanes

Mark Drawing Code
(1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial Number
78231273

Filing Date
March 28, 2003

Filed ITU
FILED AS ITU

Owner
(APPLICANT) Breiwick Gary D. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 7225 Hemlock Lane N. , Suite 224 Maple Grove MINNESOTA 55369

Type of Mark
TRADEMARK

Register
PRINCIPAL

Live/Dead Indicator
LIVE
-------------

HERE IS MINI's App -----

ark
MC MINI WINGS

Goods and Services
IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: How to booklet for making paper airplanes

Mark Drawing Code
(1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial Number
78231273

Filing Date
March 28, 2003

Filed ITU
FILED AS ITU

Owner
(APPLICANT) Breiwick Gary D. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 7225 Hemlock Lane N. , Suite 224 Maple Grove MINNESOTA 55369

Type of Mark
TRADEMARK

Register
PRINCIPAL

Live/Dead Indicator
LIVE

--------

Thank you for your request. Here are the latest results from the TARR web server.

This page was generated by the TARR system on 2003-08-06 04:18:20 ET

Serial Number: 76412263

Registration Number: (NOT AVAILABLE)

Mark

(words only): MINI

Current Status: An office action suspending further action on the application has been mailed.

Date of Status: 2003-04-25

Filing Date: 2002-05-14

Registration Date: (DATE NOT AVAILABLE)

Law Office Assigned: LAW OFFICE 114

Attorney Assigned:
CORDOVA RAUL Employee Location

Current Location: M5R -TMO Law Office 114 - Review And Amendment

Date In Location: 2003-07-18

CURRENT APPLICANT(S)/OWNER(S)
1. Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft

Address:
Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft
Petuelring 130
D-80788 Muenchen,
Fed Rep Germany
Legal Entity Type: Corporation
State or Country of Incorporation: Fed Rep Germany

GOODS AND/OR SERVICES

Gloves; head wear, jackets; and shirts
International Class: 025
First Use Date: 2002-03-00
First Use in Commerce Date: 2002-03-00

Basis: 1(a)

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Lining and Stippling: The stippling in the drawing is for shading purposes only.

Prior Registration Number(s):
2095406
2557534
7697561

PROSECUTION HISTORY

2003-06-11 - Divisional processing completed

2003-04-15 - Divisional request received

2003-04-15 - PAPER RECEIVED

2003-04-25 - Letter of suspension mailed

2003-02-28 - Communication received from applicant

2003-02-28 - PAPER RECEIVED

2003-02-26 - PAPER RECEIVED

2002-09-20 - Non-final action mailed

2002-09-19 - Case file assigned to examining attorney

2002-09-06 - Case file assigned to examining attorney

CONTACT INFORMATION

Correspondent (Owner)
Donald D. Evenson (Attorney of record)

DONALD D. EVENSON
CROWELL & MORING LLP
P.O. BOX 14300
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20044-4300

Phone Number: (202) 624-2500
Fax Number: (202) 628-8844

Domestic Representative
Crowell & Moring LLP
Phone Number: (202) 624-2500
Fax Number: (202) 628-8844

----------

neat

===============

listing for COOPER

================

MY Apologies for the tiring posts

Aug 6, 2003 | 01:47 AM

#432

Rocketboy_X

6th Gear

Joined: Jun 2002

Posts: 1,422

Likes: 0

From: Lockport, NY, USA

I just realized something... My new kitten's name is Cooper... I hope he doesn't get kidnapped by BMW's lawyers untill I change his name....

Rocketboy_X

Aug 6, 2003 | 04:49 AM

#433

Pablo

1st Gear

Joined: Aug 2002

Posts: 28

Likes: 0

From: MD

Moneygrubbing
Insensitive
Neo-****
Imperious

Unprincipled
Slimeballed
A**holes !!!!

Care to join in on the game?

Aug 6, 2003 | 05:02 AM

#434

Pablo

1st Gear

Joined: Aug 2002

Posts: 28

Likes: 0

From: MD

>>Full page ads in the NYT are $50,000

If that's for the Sunday nationwide issue, that's a bargain! I'd write a check for $100 in a heartbeat. Any non-profit club out there willing to coordinate??

Aug 6, 2003 | 05:22 AM

#435

Pablo

1st Gear

Joined: Aug 2002

Posts: 28

Likes: 0

From: MD

>>CONTACT INFORMATION
>>
>>Correspondent (Owner)
>>Donald D. Evenson (Attorney of record)
>>
>>DONALD D. EVENSON
>>CROWELL & MORING LLP
>>P.O. BOX 14300
>>WASHINGTON, D.C. 20044-4300
>>
>>Phone Number: (202) 624-2500
>>Fax Number: (202) 628-8844
>>
>> Domestic Representative
>>Crowell & Moring LLP
>>Phone Number: (202) 624-2500
>>Fax Number: (202) 628-8844
>>
>> ----------
>>
>>neat
>>
>>===============

Brilliant research, mightyMiniz!!!

Gang! Look here! We have a new target. Lock and load.

Since Mr.Evenson is the Attorney of record on this issue, maybe we should fax him a copy of our protest letters. Maybe copies of your posts, too. I think that would be legitimate and appropriate and not run afoul of the fax antispamming laws.

(202) 628-8844

I suppose it would drive-up MINI USA's legal costs, though, the firm will bill them for processing and preserving all correspondence on this. Pity

Aug 6, 2003 | 06:02 AM

#436

KSMini

1st Gear

Joined: Jan 2003

Posts: 34

Likes: 0

From: Lawrence Kansas

I don&#8217;t have a clue as to the workings of domain law or how you would even go about registering one, but what about this scenario.

We continue to express our displeasure with BMW/NA in a professional manner. Mark does indeed &#8220;own&#8221; the domain name minicooperonline? Just want to be clear about this. As a dedicated Mini owner family we channel some of this enthusiasm into developing a new name that will be recognized the spirit that has come to be minicooperonline. Once this is accomplished, put the word out in every way possible that minicooperonline is now ??????????. Then Mark can put minicooperonline to bed and under no circumstance give up, sell, transfer the name. If it&#8217;s a dead link yet still owned what could BMW/NA say? It&#8217;s not in use what&#8217;s the harm. Yet, they don&#8217;t ever get their hands on it to reap the benefit of Marks hard work.

Is this a possibility?

Aug 6, 2003 | 06:05 AM

#437

KSMini

1st Gear

Joined: Jan 2003

Posts: 34

Likes: 0

From: Lawrence Kansas

I guess cut and paste from a word document doesn't work very well.

Aug 6, 2003 | 06:15 AM

#438

kodiak6579

Neutral

Joined: Aug 2003

Posts: 2

Likes: 0

just a suggestion on the new name for a site. how about http://www.minycooperonline.com ? it's the same length, it's one letter off from your original name and it's the same name to boot. Good luck

Aug 6, 2003 | 06:27 AM

#439

rocketpop

3rd Gear

Joined: Dec 2002

Posts: 160

Likes: 0

hey how about: manycooperonline.com

Because there are so "MANY" of us here!

Is there going to be an offical protest???

How about a PAYPAL account so we can donate funds?

Aug 6, 2003 | 06:32 AM

#440

GBMINI

6th Gear

Joined: May 2002

Posts: 3,433

Likes: 1

From: Gloucester, MA, USA

Mark,
Do you have a court issued cease & desist?
Any letter sent by BMW lawyers is not legally binding - it is just a request.
Unless it is taken to court, there should be no issue.
With the petition and hopefully some PR, maybe they would not risk taking it to court - and then you do not need to fight.

The BMW lawyers would have hoped that a threatening letter would be enough to make you roll over. Do not let it be enough.

I hope that their attempt to trademark the word "MINI" will fail - has Chrysler (mini van manufacturer) anything to say?
In a court, they might try to argue that you are hurting their business and profiting from their name ... you can in fact show that you help to give them business (look how many people have posted "I would not have a MINI if MCO did not exist&quot

; unfortunately the profit issue might be sticky since you say this is your means of income ...

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:06 AM

#441

Dinosaurius

Neutral

Joined: Aug 2003

Posts: 1

Likes: 0

I haven't had time to read all 18 pages of this thread.

After reading of MCO's plight on vwvortex's car lounge forum, I spread the word among Miata-philes on miata.net. Another member told me of similar troubles at bmwm5.com, here's a link:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...threadid=32173

Just thought others would want to know. Perhaps you can pool your resources.

Good luck.

PS. While not an owner of a MINI, I am a fan, a driving enthusiast and a concerned netizen.

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:24 AM

#442

mightyMiniz

Banned

Joined: Apr 2002

Posts: 1,805

Likes: 0

From: Los Angeles, Ca

>>I hope that their attempt to trademark the word "MINI" will fail - has Chrysler (mini van manufacturer) anything to say?

Check my list and links above about the trademarking of the word MINI/Mini/mini..... MINIUSA BMWNA does NOT have exclusivity on this word.

Enforcement on this may be moot, they will have to send their threats to every trademark owner, those who own trademarks on the word MINI and the word Cooper. If they do not, they may be found and fought against with harrassment and discrimination... for telling MARK he CANNOT use certain combinations that Include the word MINI... Example http://www.MiniApex.com.

Interestingly enough, MiniMania has held a trademark for an exceptionaly long time. Good Luck BMWNA.

Trademarks cost approx. $350 by the way.

The good fight will continue.

Do not FOLD to their Bullying.

Stick to your guns, http://www.MiniApex.com ... they can't prevent you from using this, unless they purchased the domain after you told them about it ...

_________________
<a href="http://www.mightyminiz.com"><img border="0" src="http://www.mightyminiz.com/beachsig....></p>

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:24 AM

#443

lectric bloo

3rd Gear

Joined: May 2003

Posts: 233

Likes: 0

From: Miami, Florida

#556 reporting in.

Come on MINIUSA, do you really wanna be the bad guy? This "picking on the little guy" was an extremely bad idea. In case your lawyer dunderheads can't understand, bad publicity = loss of $

Go Wicked Wanda, Give'em H3ll.

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:31 AM

#444

stovepipejones

4th Gear

Joined: Feb 2003

Posts: 595

Likes: 0

From: Detroit

Anybody out there stupid enough to actually rip off their badge yet?
I didn't think so.
Let's cut the dramatics and get realistic here. The only thing that'll help Mark and this site is coming up with a suitable new name.
After all, we fell in love with the car...not the car company.

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:32 AM

#445

Xanthus

Coordinator :: South East - Florida

Joined: Jun 2003

Posts: 1,603

Likes: 0

From: Tampa, FL

Unfortunately their forums are a little lacking in my mind. There are no general chat forums and stuff. But oh, well guess we "happy motoring" people like to chat about nonsense more than avid BMW owners.

I hope that Mark can hold on untill one of those big money lawyer types with a BMW site tells BMW where to go and sets a legal prescedent.

As far as all the "should other sites worry" it is totally fine, unless you are referring to the Mini Cooper car. Like I have said and others have pointed out, this is most likely some screwy legal team or some snobbish junior executive with a stick up their.......

Mark, please make yourself a private forum and invite those that seem to have proper legal advice (not me) so you can gleen it from them w/o having to read every post here. Just a thought.

Is this the longest thread in the history of this forum?

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:37 AM

#446

nfo

6th Gear

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Sep 2002

Posts: 1,771

Likes: 0

pipe...
i was gonna take my cooper badge off anyway!
i think this will get resolved, i don't think anyone expected us to pull together.
power in numbers.......

for them the NUMBER$ are the power!

_________________

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:46 AM

#447

minimotorin

6th Gear

Joined: Feb 2002

Posts: 1,300

Likes: 0

From: Florida

>>Let's cut the dramatics and get realistic here. The only thing that'll help Mark and this site is coming up with a suitable new name.
>>After all, we fell in love with the car...not the car company.

I guess you didn't follow the rear fog light issue?

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:47 AM

#448

stovepipejones

4th Gear

Joined: Feb 2003

Posts: 595

Likes: 0

From: Detroit

What did the rear fog light issue have to do with brand propriety?

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:50 AM

#449

Mark

Thread Starter

North American Motoring :: Founder

Joined: Jan 2002

Posts: 3,070

Likes: 0

From: Colorado

>>MightyMiniz posts about trademarks

The interesting thing about these filings is that the filing dates are after MCO launched. I'm not fully versed in the trademark paperwork process but these dates and the dates for "Filed for opposition" indicate filings well after MCO, MINI2, businesses with MINI in the name, and clubs had already popped up.

Mark

Aug 6, 2003 | 07:56 AM

#450

dave

pug poo picker-upper

Joined: Jun 2002

Posts: 9,803

Likes: 30

From: California

I don't see any problem with following the two pronged approach that Mark has outlined

1) Try to get BMW/MINI to approve the use of MINI and/or COOPER in the url for both MCO and the MINI club sites. Whether its MINI COOPER Online or miniapex, I think we would agree that having MINI in name makes the site more recognizeable as a site for enthusiasts of this car. They approved clubmini.org only to withdraw approval 2 hours later (OMG, we didn't know MCO was a commercial site! ).

2) Try to think up other suitable naming ideas without MINI in the name that still retain sense of a community and not along the lines of BMW's lame suggestions that sound like a personal homage to MINI (i.e. lovingmymini ).

It would be nice if BMW/MINI would work WITH Mark instead of against him.

_________________
PM Dave