Hey, everyone.

First, I'm not worried about classing.

What I am worried about is I have the RSpeed bar on my '03 JCW w/ JCW suspension, and I pick up the rear inside tire even on the softest setting.

Now that I have my '06 JCW w/ JCW suspension, I'm looking for a bar that I can tighten up enough for the street & then loosen up enough for autox.

Suggestions?

Thanks ahead of time.


ZM

 

H-Sport is a good option.

 

Thanks--I suppose you're talking about the Sport vs the Comp bar?

Anyone ran any other brands out there that won't pick up rear tires at autox & still adjust tight for the street?


ZM

 

There are several things you can do.
First is some alignment- you can certainly adjust toe settings front and rear but you'll need front camber plates to adjust the front for more negative camber and likely some adjustable lower control arms if you can't adjust enough negative camber for the rears.

Adding the rear sway bar helps. three holes are best and the H-sport Comp is likely to be most useful but only to a point. Even on the softest setting you will be sometimes lifting your rear wheels. If you really don't like this then don't upgrade the rear bar.

The reason you are lifting the wheel is that more weight is being transferred to the outside wheel on a hard turn. you need more weight to stay on your inner wheel but it has to do with how you are steering and transferring weight and the negative camber you have to help and your tires, etc.

At autocross I always lift my rear wheels in the inside but hopefully only for a minimal time. Since my drive wheels are in the front the rear wheels are mostly for balance and some traction- not for power. The more you can maintain weight on all four wheels as balanced as possible the better results you will get.

Try taking an autocross school course and see what it will take to go fast and keep your tires on the ground without changing anything from what you have now.

Also very few of us ever change settings for the rear swaybar for street vs track use. I have mine set for stiffest and use that for street, autocross and track all the time. I never change it. But I do adjust my coil overs for soft setting when on the street and firm for on the track.

 

Thanks for the input.

I understand all your points about other things to do to keep the tires down, but since I don't autox all the time (and, I don't plan on installing any other adjustable parts), I was hoping to find a bar w/ enough variability to satisfy me on the street & then be able to keep all four tires down on the track.

Might be asking for a lot, but I thought maybe someone has used a bar that has enough adjustability.

I'd be happy w/ a bar that wasn't as stiff as the RSpeed--since it was too tight for the track (on the lowest setting), and made the car barely too twitchy at high speeds on the street (on it's highest setting).

Anyone have a list of the spring rate differences over stock of all the bars? I've seen it for the H-Sport Comp, but not the H-Sport Sport or other bars.

Thanks again.


ZM

 

If you are looking for uber adjustability, you may want to consider the Webb rear sway bar:

Webb Motorsports Extreme Rear Swaybar



"What this set up allows is virtually infinite adjustment from 10% softer than stock to 348% stiffer than stock (on the Cooper S)."

 

Very cool. Now, if it didn't cost $475. Oh, I'm asking for too much, huh.

Anyone have an idea what the % spring rate gain for the H-Sport Sport bar, on the highest setting, is above stock?

Thanks.


ZM

 

Found a couple rate listings:

H-Sport Sport: +54%, +88% & +128%
H-Sport Comp:+226%, +294% & +383%

I'm guessing the RSpeed rates are comparable to the H-Sport Comp. So, I don't really need more than +300%, and want less than +226%.

That being said the H-Sport Sport seems a little weak.

Anyone tried this 20mm bar from Mini Mania?
http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm

Thanks.


ZM

 

Looks like the 20mm bar is from Whiteline?

They have a sizing chart on page 4 of their catalogue.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/default....=/whatsnew.htm

Hard to say what the rates would be on their adjustable 20mm, though.

Anyone had any luck w /their bar? Thanks.


ZM

 

Hello,

Just a quick note. We offer both a 19mm and 22mm adjustable bar. Both feature three (yes 3) points of adjustment on each side of the bar for a multitude of flexibility. Won't interfere with other suspension components at any of the settings. Includes pocketed bushings to retain grease for an extended period of time. VERY reasonably priced at $169.99 MSRP from us or any of our dealers. More info at our website www.altaminiperformance.com

Also, as a brief recommendation for street vs. strip. The 22mm may be too much for some at the track but does offer adjustment to softer settings. 19mm is an excellent route for both track and street. Also, on the issue of travel you can change this some with endlink length as well as other suspension mods. I didn't see if you had coilovers, but they can in some cases reduce rebound travel and thus won't be able to extend far enough down under extremely hard cornering and continue to lift the inner rear wheel.

Let us know if we can help! Thanks again!

 

Zack,

If it weren't for the high price the Webb sway bar with adjustments from 10% softer than the stock MCS to +348% stiffer would be the most useful.

In that case it would be easy to switch settings once you mark them with some paint for street vs track use. The bar would have resale value on NAM so that would be a plus but it also has alot of parts which means you have to always be careful that nothing has come loose and fallen off.

Alta's post was helpful. The 19mm adjustable bar might be worth a look. 22mm bars sound too stiff for your needs.

Can you get rear wheel lifting with the stock bar and JCW upgrades now?
If so then you don't really need to make the rear bar stiffer. If not then just smaller increases would be best.

Given your comments I'd say the H-sport comp bar would be too stiff. The H-sport 19mm bar might be good on the softest setting.

 

I second the $170 dollar 22mm Alta bar. Reliable brand, 3 stiffness settings, and $50 less than H-Sport.

 

cooper99: THANK YOU for the complements and your previous purchases.

Also, we do offer the 19mm for the same $169 price as the 22mm

Thanks again!

 

Thanks guys.

Hey Alta--do you have spring rate gain %'s over stock for your two bars in all three holes?

BTW, Whiteline says their 20mm bar gives rate increases of: +26%, 94%, 180%.

Anyone drilled a fourth hole into their bar?

Thanks.


ZM

 

Hey everyone. Here's what Alta said:

19mm: +115%, 141%, 178%
22mm: +213%, 260%, 329%

Now, if someone just made a 21mm bar.

Anyone know RSpeed's rates?


ZM

 

The 19mm alta bar numbers look promising. Too stiff is not always the best strategy.

The settings on all three holes for the 19mm bar look like they can fall in the usable range for street use.

 

minihune: Thanks for the complement. Let us know if we can ever help further.

 

I found this thread very interesting but the idea of a sway bar that is too stiff for the track surprised me. Why would a bar that is too stiff for the track not be too stiff for the street? If it is too stiff for both, why is it made? Could someone help me understand what is going on.
Thanks

 

[quote=ALTAPerformance;1149207]cooper99: THANK YOU for the complements and your previous purchases.

Also, we do offer the 19mm for the same $169 price as the 22mm


what bar do you recommend to use with upper and lower front strut bracing?

 

Front and rear sway bar stiffness is useful relative to all of the other suspension parts being used.

First consider your road conditions. If you have a track that is not very smooth (like our 40 year old track in Hawaii), has ruts and bumps and an off camber sharp turn, then you might reach a point where there could be a setting too stiff for your style of driving or for the given track.

But if you have reasonably smooth streets that are paved and upkept in the same area for daily driving then that same stiff rear sway bar would be quite usable for daily commuting without any adjustment in setting- especially provided there are other adjustments possible such as softer dampening settings for street use from adjustable coil overs.

Very few of us will change rear swaybar settings for track vs street use even though it can be done. If you are on the track only once per year then that might be a case where you could use the softest setting for general use and adjust for the track event.

For most of us, we leave the front swaybar stock even with adding front strut braces. It is possible to change front and rear swaybars to adjustable H-sport comp bars. Generally the softest setting in the front is most usable.

 

For Solo II, which is where this thread is posted, with lower speed cornering, its possible to see wheel spin on corner exit with acceleration with a very large/stiff front bar. The smaller stock bar will help eliminate some of this wheel spin. I have experienced this first hand and know that a very large front bar is not the best way to go, well, for my setup. :-) It may prove to be more beneficial for the track, but, I would not know.

For the rear bar though, you definitely want significantly stiffer than stock to induce some rotation, this is beneficial for both autocross and track(I'm sure).

 

Too much rear bar can cause the rear to "skate" (it's hard to explain). Plus a stiffer rear bar limits the shock travel.

The point is, when you start feeling like your rear bar is too stiff, you should start thinking about stiffer rear springs instead.

I think it was Colin Chapman that would build race cars without swaybars. He felt tuning them with the springs was more effective. That's obviously not true today, but it shows that you can't adjust the balance of your car with only a sway bar. They can only get you so far.