This year I went from 15" 205 Victoracers to 225 Victoracers. I also add a Quaife. Last year the car was very settled and smooth. Now, it runs great on more open courses, but with frequent transitions it gets squirrely. At times I can even feel the front corners bouncing off of the bump stops in the really tight turns. I think the increased grip is exposing the weakness of the H-Sport springs.

I'm thinking of going with coilovers. I'm considering PSS9's vs KW variant 2's. The Eurostyles East guys are big on KW. Opinions?

With the power and grip upgrades I also have trouble slowing fast enough. I'm thinking pads and braided steel lines only. Since I'm running 15" wheels I can't see that there'd be a big difference going with aftermarket rotors of the same diameter. What pads are you SM guys using?

Thanks,
Gene

 

doesn't sound like the H-Sport springs are the real problem, instead your shocks can't keep up with the springs or they have exceeded their life span because of the shorter springs...

 

That was quick!

I might be wrong, but I thought the springs slow the car going down and the struts slow going back up (to boil it down to 25 words or less). If I'm right the spring rates allow to much travel in very hard turns. I have the only Mini I know that will lift the inside rear off of the ground. I figured this was due to to much dive on the opposite front.

 

Dampening rate have a varence in both dirction up and down and can keep you from bottoming out along with the handling charistics of the car. I've just started doing some Autocrossing and seeing that i have simular mods that you have im also in SM. we may need to keep base on this.

Seeing that i have a VERY limit Fun budget. I can't get to addressing the different issue i currently have. 1 is being Tires. Since i only have the 15" 7 holey rims as a spare set plan on going to a set of 205/50/15 and run them next year. This year i may have only 1 maybe 2 more events i might run so ill stick with my 17" Fusion tires for now.

2nd issue is Suspension I like being different Thats why im Runing the Racing Dynamic lowering springs. and may go to there coil over set later. Currently i have a very Flat wear on the front so i dont see a need for camber plates yet. (that may change with the 15's) But i do have an issue with the rear camber which i have the Alta arms coming to deal with that.

Also something that might interest you i have a Simple On-Demand Bypass for the Bypass vaulve. Which has helped with Low and mid-end on the car by keeping the Vaulve shut all the time. This is all done at a simple flip of a switch. No zip tying the vaulve closed.

Until we meet on the road
Have fun, Be safe and why yes that's and orange traffic cone i have stuck in my grill

PS. 2003 DS/CB Helix 19%pulley, MTH standard ecu flash, SAFCII controller, GTT intake, VGS, Adjusted BPV, ODBBPV kit, GTT TMIC, Phantom Grip Street LSD, LW Flywheel, Spec stage 3 clutch, Custom Dual Supertrapp cat back exhaust, irridium plugs, Livewire plug wires, Screaming demon coil, front strut brace, Rear 22mm sway bar, Rear seat deletion kit, Powerslot drilled and slotted rotors, Racing Dynamic springs, Alta Lower rear control arms, Homemade short shifter, 04 Front shocks , 02-03 Rear shocks, 215/40/17 Fusion ZRI tires

might have left a few things out.. but it will come to me sooner or later

 

Mugami,

I think you'll see some major differences with r-compound tires. I was trying to say that when I went to wider stickies with the camber I'm running I found that the suspension that I used to think was pretty tight is now too loose. I'm not getting huge amounts of roll as much as corner diving when turning hard at speed.

I think my next big project is the Helix/Psi-Fi Turbokompressor (I have my fingers crossed). Over the winter I plan coilovers and brake pads/lines. I was wondering what the street mod guys were running.

 

Gene:

I think the h-sports are too soft for spirited autoxes. when i tried them I had way too much nose dive under hard braking. Also the car may be looser because you're driving it harder now. I moved from STX to DSP this year and am running 205/50/15 V710s. I found that I had to readjust the car again because the backend wanted to stick too much with the r compunds.

David

 

this is a great topic ya have here...would pss9's, as a first suspention mod be overkill on the St. ?? (maybe some autoxing but limited?)

mainly just want that ground huggin' stance but also able to live' true winter
& of course all that great handling that comes w/
i thought h-sport was kool? looks like alot of hype & no perf.

 

The H-Sport setup is good, but like everything else, it has it's limitations. With my current tires and power it's not enough. With the 205's, no lsd and 15% pulley it was just fine.

 

Gene,
I've been in SM class now for 16 events. Been through a bunch of changes along the way with many of the same upgrades as you have done except for racing clutch and lightweight flywheel (my MCS is a daily driver).

Tires-
I run Kumho V710 205/50-15 on Kosei K1 TS 15x7" rims. This setup is very good and I highly recommend the V710s. When they wear out (only great for about 6 to 10 heat cycles) I have Avon Tech Ra in 225/45-15 which I like for the durability over Hoosiers. I started on Victoracers and while they lasted a long time (100+ runs) they didn't perform like the V710s. V710 in 205/50-15 on 15" holeys would be good for any MCS in SM on a budget.

Suspension-
I started with H-sport springs with stock shocks. It was OK for street, track, and autocross. As driver skill increases you will either reach the limit of that setup (stock springs being the weakest link) or you will be tired of the rough and jarring ride once you dial in more negative camber in the front and rear with the help of front camber plates and rear lower control arms.

Looking for a better more comfortable street ride and better handling on the track and at autocross I upgraded to Bilstein PSS9s, cross balanced, lowered the ride height by 3/4" over the H-sports, and added adjustable endlinks front and rear. While this setup is good it requires lots of adjustment and fine tuning. You DO have to relearn how to drive your MINI at it's new limits when you change suspension and when you have control of adjustments you can make to ride height, weight distribution, and dampening.

Quaife-
While this is a costly upgrade, it is also a very solid worthwhile upgrade but you do have to drive the MINI at it's limits to take full advantage. If you are not driving at the limit you don't need a quaife.

Brakes-
For anyone that does track or autocross and uses 15" wheels:
Brake pads can be Hawks (talk to alex@tirerack) Ferodo DS2500, Mintex M1144, or EBC greens. I've used the Ferodos and Mintex pads.
Rotors can be stock or Brembo OEM, or cryogenic Power Slots (a bit more durable)- these are less of a factor for stopping power.
The Brake caliper stiffeners are a good option to firm up the brake feel- maybe more so than stainless steel lines. Upgrading brake fluid and changing it once yearly is good. Finally Willwood makes a smaller big brake kit that will fit 15" wheels but you might need a 5mm spacer for clearance.

As you upgrade power or suspension you change your MINI. You need to allow yourself to retrain how to make the best use of your upgrades. It takes time. The more power you have to work with the more power you need to control, if you apply too much power at the wrong time you will need to work your brakes that much harder and if you don't realize this until too late you WILL loose time and be slower. You have to be better skilled and a smoother driver to drive a more capable car at it's limits. Your car is almost never the limiting factor in doing well in autocross. (assuming no bald tires).

 

Thanks Minihune.

Like you say, it's an evolution process for both car and driver.

Don't let the fact that your car is a daily driver disuade you from getting the clutch/flywheel. Yes, it's noisy and grabby, but not horribly so. Besides, you're in Hawaii, how far could you possibly have to drive?

 

I'm finally moving to R compounds, after 5 years of running on street tires (Azenis since they came out, a variety of tires before that). Tires will be 225/45-15 Avons on 15x7 Kosei wheels.

Any suggestions on what to watch for with these tires? I'm comfortable sorting out tire pressures with real street tires, but the Avons will be a new experience for me.

FYI, alignment currently is -2.3deg camber up front, -1.8 in the rear. 1/16th toe out in front, zero in the rear. PSS9s, RDR rear sway bar on the stiffest setting. With 215/45-16 Azenis on 16x7.5 Kosei I typically run between 39 and 41psi up front, 34 to 37 in the rear. Other mods in signature below, but probably not relevant to the tire pressure discussion.

Thanks.
Scott
90SM

 

Scott,
Avon Tech makes two tires that are R compounds in 225/45-15.
Tirerack has Tech R (good for track) and Tech R-A (good for autocross).
If your needs are for a combination track and autocross tire then the Tech R would be a good place to start while if you are using them only for autocross then the Tech R-A would be worth a look. Tech R cost a little less for a given size. Tech R-A might wear a bit faster.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....reModel=Tech+R
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....Model=Tech+R-A

Talk to Alex@tirerack.com for more details.

Overall you sound like you are ready. You don't mention about your ride height front and rear or if you have done corner balancing which is very helpful and a good thing to do given you have PSS9s. For the rear camber don't go to far on the negative camber, about -1.5 or -1.6 is OK. And for the rear swaybar you can try the middle setting if you have a test and tune day.
You can also adjust the PSS9 dampening settings to suit your track or driving style.

 

Thanks for the quick reply. Car has been corner balanced, and is good. Using the Azenis, the suspension is already sorted and set up to suit me. I've gone through 6 sets of 215 Azenis on this car, so I'm pretty comfortable with it and comfortable adjusting damping and tire pressures with the street tires to suit various courses and conditions. I'm not sure why I would soften the rear sway bar, but will keep it in mind if the balance of the car shifts radically for some reason.

The part that is new to me is the R compounds. I expect that they will like less tire pressure than the Azenis require, but don't really know if there is anything in particular to watch out for (no outer tread block to watch, etc) while I am figuring out what works best for my car and driving style. I don't want to tear them up prematurely due to running underinflated, as can happen with street tires. If I can approach them the same way that I've done in the past with new models of street tires, then great.

Alex @ Tirerack suggested (indirectly, as I was on the phone with someone else) that I start at 35F, 39R. He was not aware of the car setup when he gave those recommendations, but if no one with a non-stock suspension setup has suggestions I'm going to start with Alex's numbers. They are backwards from how I normally run. With the stiffer springs in the rear, I haven't felt the need to run the rear tire pressures that high (to induce some oversteer) but instead drop the rear pressure to get the response that I want while also getting a slightly softer wheel rate. I know that you can get similar results either way, but the back of the car is plenty stiff already for the somewhat bumpy sites that we run at. Peru doesn't count.

Thanks for the input.
Scott
90SM

 

Scott,

While the Azenis are good, R compounds are much much better.
The Avon Tech R tires should be alot stickier especially once they get heated up and they should last a decent amount of time. Maybe not as long as the Azenis but pretty good since you won't be taking them on the street like you can with and Azenis.

I have new Avon Tech R-A in the same size as you and will be using about 34 or 35 psi in the front and 30 psi in the rear then check tire temperatures using a pyrometer at the track during autocross. Your pressures might be different depending on the road surface and your driving style.

If your handling is neutral then leave the swaybar setting as is. If you find you have too much oversteer then try the middle setting for the rear bar.
The Avons can affect your handling alot so just be open to making adjustments. If you have not ordered your Avons yet you can order them heat cycled and ready to go or do the heat cycling yourself but let them cool off for at least 48 hours before competition.

 

Thanks

 

Here's an update. After long talks with Sam Strano (last years nat'l f-stock winner, Evo instructor and owner of stranoparts.com) I went with Koni yellows under my H-sport springs. His main points were that I can always change spring rates later and that, in his experience, corner-weighing is worth a couple of hundredths, at best. I also went to steel brake lines, ATE fluid and Ferodo D2500 pads.

First off, the braking is much improved. The 3-year-old fluid and stock pads were shot. After some trial and error I raced last weekend with the front struts on full soft (to get rid of all understeer), rear shocks on 1/2 firm and the sway bar in the middle (it had been on full firm). Sam and I found the Mini to be way too loose in transition. My codriver, who I suspect to be a closet drifter, loved it and won SM.

For the last 2 events of the year I'm doing the following changes at Sam's suggestion: installing the H-Sport front bar on the soft setting which will allow for increased dampening on the front struts, moving the rear bar to the softest setting and taking a bit of dampening from the rears.

We shall see.

 

R compounds are a wonderful thing. Used the Avons for the first time today. FTD by nearly 2 seconds, 4th overall on PAX. The Azenis are good, but nothing like these things.

Not that it applies to other setups, styles or sites, but I ended up running 37F, 33R. Same suspension settings but with 215/45-16 Azenis, I was running 41F, 37R. This particular site has old, old asphalt that is pretty abrasive, but loose. Other sites will let me run with lower tire pressures without worrying about ripping the tires to pieces.