Anyone hear that 02-04MCS are going to DS not GS anymore?

 

News to me...

Where did you hear that? If it wasn't from a Board Member or SEB member, I'd consider it unreliable at this point.

The Board of Directors does still have to make the final decision, so it IS possible, but not likely.

Brian

 

There is talk about this because of the 05’s having some extra HP and the LSD option. Why the 02-04’s should have to change class is beyond me, but this is something some of us have already written complaints to the board about.

I’ve heard no firm word about the class change at this time and hope they come to their senses.

 

Wait a minute, let's be clear here:

The decision was already made by the SEB to put the '05 MINI with LSD in G Stock along with all other Cooper S's.
The only thing left is for the Board to approve the SEB's decision which almost always happens.
That said, this decision is made unless you know something about the Board changing the decision.

Of course this decision is strange, the '05 MINI Cooper S will demolish G Stock, no problem. But, I think it was something about "speeding up the class".

Brian

 

Check out this lengthy discussion of the SEB decision:

http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultima...p/topic/18/833

This is only part 2 of this topic.

Their are a lot of unhappy people due to this decision. Including some frustrated Celica owners.

How do these Celica owners think us 02-04 Mini owners feel? At least they've had a nice long run in GS.

 

Everybody needs to remember........The SEB left themselves an "out" by classing the '05 MCS on a separate line in the rulebook. If it appears to be an overdog in G/S, they could *immediately* decide to bump it up to D/S, and still leave the pre-'05 MCS in G/S, thus restoring G/S back to last year's situation. If this happens, in the end, we could have the '05 owners that are left feeling less-than-competitive. Those with pre-'05 MCS may not want to dump them yet. It may be wise to wait until things shake out next season.

 

I think part of the decision has to do with the LSD is not a factory install, but a dealer install. The same as why the JCW MINIs who fall in to the ASP class because the mods don’t come from the factory, but the dealer.

G-Stock is a very competitive class here in region 12, to compete against MCS with extra HP and LSD doesn’t seem like I’ll have a very even chance.

 

That's news to me. Do you have any documentation of that? Of all the explainations I've heard to justify the decision to put '05 S's in GS none have included the notion that the LSD was a dealer installed accesory and therefore not stock category legal has not come up.

 

I can't imagine for the price mentiuoned for LSD this would be a dealer install. Labour alone would be in the $1,500 up range. Surely this is a factory install.

I contacted SCCA myself a couple of weeks ago and as previously mentioned, both 04 and 05 cars will be in G/S.

 

Well as of the spring season here in Colorado Springs I will be in DS with my 04 MCS. I didn't see anything on the boards and wondering if any of you knew of it. I persoanlly would get my "boot" handed to me in DS/DSL here in CO.

 

1st off what is the Definitive word on where the LSD is being installed. I no of no one who has one yet or where it is going to be installed, but with that said it should make a big difference what class it would compete in.

Here is the rule about the LSD and being standard equipment straight from the SCCA web page and rule book and please notice the word standard.

Limited-slip differential, transmission and differential ratios, clutch mechanisms, and carburetion, fuel injection or supercharger induction systems must be standard as herein defined."


"12.4 Standard Part

An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States. Dealer-installed options or deletions, except as required by factory directives, no matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts."

By this definition alone I don’t see how a MCS with LSD if it's being installed at the dealer can compete in the G-Stock class. That makes the LSD an option and not standard equipment.

 

Has anyone ever seen a dealer-installed MINI option that had a factory code before? I think not! 99 and 44/100% sure that the LSD is a factory installed option as described in the SII rules.

 

What is going on here folks?

The LSD *IS* factory installed, unless they change production for some reason. I've already looked into ordering it.

ALL Cooper S's are in G Stock for now, there's no discussion for anybody but the Board of Directors who generally "rubber stamp" whatever the SEB says.

IF the '05 Cooper S w/ LSD goes to D Stock, it STILL doesn't matter, it has a good shot of winning there. I was already looking into an '05 for D Stock before they even talked about putting it into G Stock. The '02-'04 Cooper S can already beat most of the D Stock cars (including the SRT-4) BEFORE it gets an LSD.
On a 60 second course, the LSD is worth 1.5-2 seconds, I've done back to back comparisons. The only difference would be if the LSD was Viscous or something with lousy lockup.

The point is this, the losers right now are the '02-'04 Cooper S owners (me included). If you go out and buy an '05, you'll either dominate G Stock (providing you're a good enough driver) or have a damn good shot in D Stock.

BUT, on the local level, this is all a moot point, you can win D stock in an '02-'04 if you're good enough.

Brian
MINI Cooper in H Stock in 2002 (Pro Solo Champion)
MINI Cooper S in D Stock in 2002
MINI Cooper S in STX in 2003
MINI Cooper S in GS in 2004
MINI Cooper S w/LSD in GS in 2005?

 

Whew...glad we got that cleared up. Where did someone hear the LSD was dealer installed?

Brian, the diff is mechanical (source), but I think you might be a little optimistic for D Stock. The front runners are the Type R and BMW 330. Mark D. wasn't overly impressed with the Neon. If it's possible, though, I'm sure you're one person that can make it competitive.

<jedi mind trick>In fact...you don't need a LSD...you want to run an open diff...</jedi>

Brock
GS '05 in '05

 

Well, let me explain my optimism:

I've driven a Type R on a 60 second course, I drove the '02 Cooper S on the same course 1 second slower.

I've driven an '02 Cooper S on a 60 second course, then I drove an '02 Cooper S with a Quaife 1.5 seconds faster.

Is it 100% certain? No. Does it look probable? Yep.

Brian