Can someone explain to me, why the 2006 JCW's are in D Street Prepared AND B Stock?

Shouldn't they have been properly moved to DS too?

 

Sorry, you bought a car that is not competitive in stock class. There are lots of them.

The E46 M3 is a phenominal car, but not competitive in AS

Andy Hollis's response on SCCAForums is exactly right, he was there and he would know.

 

I often get the impression Andy Hollis is anti Mini, and I was hoping for a logical explanation, not some bilge about too many classes. That has nothing to do with where a car should actually be placed according to it's performance.

I get the impression SCCA just doesn't want to deal.

 

Andy was one guy on the SEB, he just happens to be the most visible and vocal. He is in no way anti-MINI. He gave you the exact reason why the JCW was classed in BS. It really is pretty simple, especially to folks that don't own JCWs.

there is already a feeling that the MINI's are getting special treatment, particulary in 2005 when the MCS stayed in GS, and again in 2007 when the MCS stayed in GS. To have a third class with the MINI competitive would drive many people crazy. Especially a "one year" expensive, special edition.

they threw JCW owners a pretty big bone by allowing them in STX, and moving them from ASP (their original classing) to DSP

How would you like to be the owner of Toyota Celica or Mazda RX-7tt and have your investment in a multi-year top dog be nullified with the addition of a new car in your class...

 

For the purposed of SCCA, anyone with a who wanted to use ALL the parts to create a JCW, could be classified as such. The parts are available from the factory, so it could just be an update. There's more than one marque running is SCCA that's "one off." Example, Shelby Mustang GT.

So fairness goes out the window? It's completely irrelevant to a stock class driver. They attempted to rectify a bad call from the beginning.

Well there's no way to know. The cars you're mentioning would not necessarily be dominated by JCW's.

 

I'm having a bit of deja vu on this thread, having bought an '04 MCS and added the JCW at the dealer before reading the Solo rulebook. There is a thread on sccaforums that records my shock at the classing rules, and my slightly chagrined responses to the advice I got from seasoned club members back in '05.

I spent the '05 season in ASP hoping the Vipers and Vets would stay home (they did). Then the SEB relented and I was thankfully released from that rather scary crowd.

I've run STX for the last two years, and am having lots of fun and some successes.

The car can take top PAX in NER with the right driver (Rob Lapierre proved this last year) although I'm a bit skeptical that it could beat a well prepared WRX at the national level regardless of the pilot.

To get there, all I had to do was add the Quaife (you already have LSD in the '06 I think), H&R coil overs (from Turner Motorsports), camber plates, Hotchkis rear lower control arms, and some light 15" wheels. That took a year and another few thousand over what I started with.

The result however is a car that remains a daily driver while competing effectively, and after 90k miles I have no regrets at all.

I just fell in love with the MCS, and never looked back...

So this may just aggravate you more if your heart is set on a stock class, but my hope was to encourage you to take a step or two further with the confidence that STX is a viable alternative for the JCW cars.

 

Mustangs are only competitive in one stock class, and the Shelby GT was classed under the best of breed philosophy. If you follow that example the JCW goes in GS and you upset every other MCS owner.

On the update thing. That only applies to the 06 MCS, that was the only year it was a factory option.


Fairness to who? the few or the many?


that wasn't the point. those owners had cars that were the top dog in their class one year and the next they were also rans.

 

There are only a couple cars that can win each stock class. Unfortunately, it will always be that way, and if there was an easy solution, it would have been implemented. If it would be competitive in DS, but be a little better than some others, and you had Minis running a muck in 3 classes, you would really have people crying foul. Some already are. If you have your heart set on Nationals, you really have to figure out a class you want, what car you think can win that class, and get that one.

My M Roadster is a BS car, but then goes to ASP, no classification allowed for a street tire class, then SM2. Typically, AS cars go to ASP, and BS cars go to BSP. Be thankful that your BS car goes to DSP (and not the ASP I used to drive a JCW in), and you have STX you can go in. There are much worse offended cars out there than the JCW at this point.

 

I don't plan to ever run nationals.

What I am seeing, is an effort by SCCA to give on the one hand, and take away with the other. I mean every time the discussion comes up to move the JCW's out of BS, other irrelevant factors suddenly come in, like GS, SP, STS, etc. In the discussion about JCW's in BS, I don't care about what happens with non-stock classes. Maybe they're worried about the PAX? So JCW's in BS have to suffer to make the modified Mini's happy? BS, in more ways than one.

 

gotta run slicks? they are addictive I reckon...so I could see that being so...

one more try...

STX is fun...

and please do come to Nationals in '08, I shall need the company and reinforcements I am sure!

(ducking)

 

Sorry, you are SOL until the regular MCS is faster than your 06 JCW. Which is probably only a couple of years away. The SEB buried your car on purpose, and reasons for it continue to be valid.

Here is the exact same situation: high performance, low production version of a popular autocross car. The WS6 Firebird and the SS Camaro were buried in A Stock until this year, when F Stock got fast enough to allow them in with the rest of the pony cars.

 

Oh yeah, and since you run street tires, you could simply run STX without making any changes to your car and be instantly more competitive. And your pax value would be .012 easier.

 

As nice as it would be to have every car competitive within a class, that is simply not feasible. Also, the classing is almost always going to be conservative, so that an overdog does not get put into a class where it will destroy the field. This is also the reason that most very small production cars get classed somewhat hard.

The SP classing is based upon the best example, as one can do a model interchange on the worst example.

The cars are classed in Stock on a model by model example. The JCW and the JCW GP might do well in DS, but as you have heard, there would be some rumblings about the MINIs getting too favorable treatment. At that point, I would expect that all S' would then be moved to DS. I don't think that many of us would want that.