will it be possible to install a dump valve on the new mini ?

and for all u mechanics out there, what kind of mods do u think will be done to the new turbo-engine ? Isn't it true that a turbo engine can generate a lot more power then a compressor engine ?

Where will the mods take uss in lets say 2008 ?

And maybe a stupid question, but is there a Pulley on this turbovharged engine ? Because that was the first mod everybody was doing on their mini S's .

thax

 

By dump valve I am going to assume you mean Blow Off Valve. The system should have one already. It should be a bypass valve type recurculating the excess pressure from thottle closing back into the intake system. The other thing you could be meaning is a wastegate valve. This would be on the turbo manifold and places excess exhaust pressure down the exhaust pipe without going thru the turbine.

Turbo vs. supercharged vs. normally aspariated can all build big power. Displacement, build type, tuning all play a part.

There will be pulleys on this engine. However they will run equipment like A/C compressors, altenators, etc. The turbo will not have a pulley like a supercharger. A turbo uses exhaust pressure to turn a turbine blade. This is conected by a shaft to a compressor blade. The compressor side takes raw air compresses it and then into the intake side of the engine it goes (thru intercoolers, throttle bodies, etc.)

I think the first performance modificatons will be to free up the intake and exhaust systems. The next will be piggyback computers, or ECU reprogramming, that can controll boost pressure, fuel mapping, and ignition timing. 15-20% gains should be realistic with these changes. Beyond that you are looking at turbo upgrades, larger fuel injectors, internal parts upgrades to get big horsepower increases.

 

==> will it be possible to install a dump valve on the new mini ?

Will have to see layout of piping from turbo to throttle body, i.e..
is there a intercooler in the way, etc ....

BOV = blow off valve - vents to atmosphere = whoosh sound
BPV = bypass valve - excess air vented back to intake tract

If there is a type on the engine I am sure it would be a BPV

==> and for all u mechanics out there, what kind of mods do u think will be done to the new turbo-engine ? Isn't it true that a turbo engine can generate a lot more power then a compressor engine ?

Previous post had it right, exhaust, intake, push a little more boost, will
be interesting to see what the JCW does ....

==> Where will the mods take uss in lets say 2008 ?

No idea ....

==> And maybe a stupid question, but is there a Pulley on this turbovharged engine ? Because that was the first mod everybody was doing on their mini S's .

The supercharger used a pulley from the motor to drive it. Changing the
diameter (size) of the pulley allow you to overdrive the supercharger and
make more boost. This is not an option on the turbo motor. Also, does the
new motor have direct injection ?? This makes it a little more harder to
upgrade the fuel system ...

Tim Plessing
Columbia, MD

1990 celica turbo alltrac - blue/blue cloth - 152K - Under restoration
1993 MR2 turbo - blue/black leather - 57K
2005 Scion Tc - 5 spd, SAB

 

You forgot to mention a larger front mount intercooler as one of those primary upgrades. People will generally do that before they upgrade the turbo because upgrading the turbo usually means a little more money. The R56 will direct injection so it is not so much upgrading the fuel injectors but more cracking the ecu to allow changes in fuel. At least with the Audi/VW 2.0T's the direct injection is rated much higher than the stock setup actually uses. I wouldn't doubt the same of the R56 powerplant...

Exhaust alone would free up a lot of power I'm sure. I'd bet the first thing you'll see out on the market will be intakes and full exhausts. Meaning, new cat-less downpipe and relatively straight through "cat-back" systems. I.E 4" DP, 3" exhaust with 1 muffler...

 

i heard rumors that the new engine is designed with lots of locks in place.... so they dont want many tuners tinkering with it.... even JCW said they are having trouble tuning power out of it... dont remember where i heard it from tho

 

that would be very unfortunate. but do we really think that MINI knowing the aftermarket scene they created would abandon it just as easily? I hope not

 

4" DP is a little much for that tiny turbo. 2.5" with no cat should be fine for stock turbo.

 

You guys will see a lot of people asking about headers upgrade.....

remapping the ECU is one of the best and the most advanced methods of tuning TC motors to squeeze more power. It is a very complicated process, and it will take a long time before major tuners come with some reliable upgrades. It is very critical to fine-tune the vehicle in order to maintain the longevity and reliability. Increased boost=more power and of course more torque. Something that you will all notice when driving a turbo car. But, when increasing the boost, they will have to take timing, fuel into consideration to make the car run smooth. There is a long and challenging way in front of tuners to introduce some ECU upgrades. It is a question mark how well the car is tuned from the factory. BMW always makes it complicated for tuners. The cars come so fine-tuned, it is always hard to crack the maps. Also, another debate whether the internals are strong enough to handle increased boost. Probably there is no problems with that, however the longevity and reliability will be questionable. Anyways, ECU tuning needs some work.

For the very first mods, my best prediction will be the exhaust systems. There will be aftermarket turboback systems (tbe= turboback exhaust=full exhaust=new terminology) that will release a good amount of power, more than the current full exhaust systems. There will be long debates whether to go larger diameter or stay the same size. Larger diameter ones tend the get more high rpm juice, but for lower rpms engine needs to be tuned, for optimal gains.

Intakes, man, that will depend on the motor, it might be useful or cosmetic. I have not studied the new motor yet, neither I am an expert but pretty much the same like the old motor, intake will be complimentary to the list of mods, not something that will give you a bunch of power gains.

Larger intercoolers by themselves do not help a lot, however when running higher boosts, definetely helps the car running healthier. More than likely we will see these popping in the mid/later stages of tuner developments.

DV, or Blow-off valves, oh those are the little birds, couple of months they will be all over the place. Forge UK is already working on them.

I hope heavy hitters like APR/Revo in the VW/Audi world come and play with the new TC MINI so we see some serious competition out there.

At the end, it will all depend on the physical structure and ECU structure of the new motor. It will be fun....

 

The easiest and most reliable upgrade to get more power out of the turbo engine is to free up the exhaust flow. Get high flow cats or remove the cats. Get a free flowing downpipe and as straight an exhaust pipe out the back as possible.

Intakes will lean up your mixture and isn't always the best. Depends on the engine and other mods.

Adding a BOV is basically just for cosmetics and that fun sound. Unless you are so modded you can pull an 11sec 1/4th mile in that mini.

Bigger intercooler can create positive gains. Lots of testing needs to go into this though so wait a while. Flow, cooling, capacity, and fitment are what to look for.

 

I made extensive mods to my Eagle Talon AWD turbo to increase the power and generally what i did and could not due should apply to the new Mini motor. As previously stated, free-up the exhaust. Install a larger diameter exhaust system and cat. Second open up the intake and third install a manual or digital boost valve to increase the boost level. There is a very fine line between over boost and descructive over boost. When I reached the limit to increasing the boost was when the ECU shut everything down. The idea is to trick the ECU into thinking you are running a lower boost. My old car had a mass air sensor. When the boost was exceeded by too much it did not matter that the ECU thought it was OK. The mass air sensor said no to the increased air mixture and shut the boost down. I am sure that the technology has improved since 1991, but I am also sure that the safeguards have improved too. The supercharged engine is much easier to modify. Since the new engine has an over boost feature, it is possible that the ECU will allow a momentary spike of a couple of pounds of boost. If you try to run with a couple of pounds of boost for an extended period the ECU will probably shut the engine down. Just my 2 cents.

 

The WRX and STi's ECU's are similar to this. You can run up to (and above) a fuel cut boost level for a period of time (2 seconds default) before the ECU will shut off the engine to keep implosion from occuring. The current limit to boost pressure on the STi is the high limit of the ECU/ sensors to accept 28 lbs. of boost. Above that you are looking at a standalone system with new sensors.

 

All this can easily be fixed with a piggyback. Such as the Emanage Ultimate or something that can use it's own map sensor for reference and clamps the factory one.

 

What kind of factory turbo is it?

 

that is what i want to know too

 

Unfortunately no it can not. To my knowledge the limiting factor is the sensors capabilities. However there are very few cars pushing the limits of the sensors. My car for instance is at 19 psi. on the stock turbo and pumping out ~400hp depending on the correction factor used. Cars in the mid 20's are using larger replacement turbos and cranking out 400+ at the wheels. However they are unstreetable and have $$$$$ in mods.

I think a TBE and ECU reflash are going to be the way to go for most people w/ R56 S.

 

You must understand how a sensor works in the first place to comment on this. The sensor is going to have an output voltage from 0-5 volts. This will change depending on boost pressure (for a MAP sensor). When the ecu hits fuel cut is when the Map sensor hits 5 volts hince maxing the sensor out. The ECU can no longer tell exact boost pressure so the ecu shuts it down.

The emanage ultimate (for example) can use a seperate map sensor with a higher boost pressure limit. Such as a 3 bar or 5 bar map sensor. The piggyback will "clamp" the factory map sensor so the ecu only sees 4.95 volts or just under fuel cut.

It's a very simple trick and a lot of people use just a voltage clamp with no other piggyback.

I have ridden in an STI that was very streetable and was tuned to 28psi with methanol injection. It made 480whp.

 

Going to PM so we quit hijacking this thread.

However I am sure there are a lot of people who are waiting to tinker with the new turbo engine. Big hp gains will be fun.

 

I remember reading somewhere that the excess boost is not released into the atmosphere via a BOV, instead it is re-circulated into the turbo to spin the low RPM impeller, a process that allows the mini to make 191 foot pounds at 1800 rpm (or whatever the #'s).

 

This would only happen when the throttle closes. The twin scroll turbine is to thank for the low end torque.

 

I still don't get the fascination with BOV's In a recirc. system adding a BOV will only result in LOOSING boost and increasing lag The VW/Audi guys have been arguing about it for years

Now, higher quality BPV's (or DV's) are great for reliability's sake, but for performance, (at least in the 1.8T world) there's really not much in it I spent the $$$ on an AMD Viper DV and all it really did was look pretty and save a couple of $$ because I kept blowing out the std DV

Oh yeah, and AMD in the UK already has a MINI program (Lots of Forge stuff) so it would stand to reason that they'll develop mods for the "New" New MINI