I have a 2009 R55 JCW (I know this is the R56 forum, but this forum is more active and my issue isn't specific to the R55). When I'm on the track, I have trouble keeping the water temperature from hitting the 240*F.

I've replaced the water pump, completed a coolant flush, water pump pulley, and installed a CSF radiator. When I'm on the street, the water temperate stays between 185-205*F (my tune reduces the thermostat set point).

Complicating things, I have an aftermarket Intercooler and an oil cooler, which both compete with the radiator for fresh air.

Does anyone have any secrets for keeping these cars from roasting themselves at the race track?

And for fun, here's what I'm doing to cause it to run hot:

 

Love it! A track Clubman is the best Clubman! Any other details on the Clubman build to make it track worthy?

As for the cooling… do you still have the AC condenser in there? Taking that out might help get cleaner air to the radiator. Not sure how you feel about that in Texas…

 

What is the source of your temp data, OBD or an external gauge? Is the over temp a new issue? Or has it tracked with mods (tune, external coolers)? Have you tested/checked the radiator fan operation? AC condenser plugged with debris (blocks air flow)?

This possibility is likely a stretch, but given you have a 2009 in the southwest, consider that the water pump pulley surface may be glazed by now. Having lived with a number of older, high miles cars, I know from firsthand experience that rubber ages really fast in that environment, consider replacing it and the belt. Also consider the pump friction wheel as a potential suspect as well.

 

My temperature source is the ECU as I'm using the P3 V3 Scan Gauge.

That's a question that is hard to answer. I bought this car 4 years ago in a non-running condition. Over the past 4 years, I've only put a couple of thousand miles on it. This car is one of many I have and I've worked on it in my spare time. This was my 3rd weekend with the car at the track, and the first weekend with minimal running issues. (Actually, it ran like a top except for running hot.) The outing before this past weekend, the oil temps were high and the boost wasn't breaking 13 psi.

Before this past weekend, I installed a new CSF radiator. When I had the condenser loose, I inspected it and blew it out with compressed air. The fan operates as expected, but at speed, the fan will actually reduce airflow instead of increase it. I have considered removing the fan and shrouding to increase airflow at track speeds. I'd install a different electric fan that would allow more air to flow at speed. This would definitely help when moving, but I'd risk the car running hot when not moving. Currently, it stays nice and cool in stop-and-go traffic.

I replaced the water pump and pulley about 4,000 miles ago. I'm going to inspect it and replace the belt and the funky tensioner wheel arm thing as well.



Thanks, I love tracking Mini's. A few years back I won the regional NASA time trial championship in my R53. That was a super fun car and a serious engine build. The R53 was a track car that could be driven on the street. My Clubman is a street car that can be driven on the track, if that makes sense. My R53 build is documented in the link in my signature. I sold it a few years ago on Bring a Trailer. The new owner Skip, has it for sale again.

As for the R55, this is what I've done:

• Maintenance Items: New valve cover, various seals and gaskets, new MAP sensors, new VANOS solenoid, new water pump, new motor mounts, used JCW 6 speed (6th gear failed on the original), etc.
• JMTC JM40 Turbo (very close to the stock JCW turbo)
• New OEM diverter valve with ALTA upgraded spring
• Akrapovic 100 CEL Downpipe
• Cold and Hot side hoses replaced with silicon (muffler and noise maker deleted)
• Mini Gen 2 GTT vacuum circuit catch can
• BSH boost circuit catch can
• AEM 21-699C Cold Air Intake
• Aftermarket functional hood scoop
• Aftermarket Stepped Style Intercooler
• ST Coilovers
• Whiteline 20mm Adjustable Rear Swaybar
• Rear adjustable lower control arms
• JTEK Torsen (Biggest performance upgrade I've made. It completely eliminated the otherwise wicked torque steer I was experiencing.)
• OS Giken GT Single Flywheel/clutch
• Vorshlag Camber Plates
• AEM Strutbar
• mariokart stage 2 tune
• Sneed4Speed brake cooling kit (This is a must! The first time out, I cooked the front pads in 3 laps.)
• Sneed4Speed oil cooler adapter with -10AN likes to a 16 row oil cooler (Also a must. I was seeing oil temps of over 300*F prior to installation.)
• Hawk DTC-60 brake pads front and rear
• Advanti Racing Storm S1 17x8, 4X100, et35, 16.8lbs wheels
• Nanking AR-1 215/40R17, 100 TW, DOT legal tires

I also added a Curt hidden trailer hitch. You can see it in the picture above with a recovery shackle installed. I use this to tow a tire trailer when I don't want to bring the entire rig to the track. He's my normal tow rig:



This is my daily driver. Well, I actually drive my F250 more, because I'm always working on this MINI, but I want to daily this car. Thus, street comfort is very important. That's why it only has ST coilovers and not MCS or other track focus suspension. I just want this car to be trackable for when I'm instructing. When I really want to go fast, I have a widebody BMW E30 race car, a widebody BMW E36 race car with a S54 swap, and I'm currently building a BMW M Coupe race car with a 550hp LS swap.

-bj

 

Have you tried Redline Water Wetter?

 

Yep, I have water wetter in the system. I don't find that it actually does much, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

The cooling problems continue: I could only do 2 laps at Circuit of the Americas before it was up to 247*F and the water temp warning light came on. At this point, I don't know what to do besides ducting to ensure all the air is going through the radiator, having a custom radiator made, and investigating to see if I can change to a higher flowing cooling fan.

-bj

 

Good to know youve tried it.

Until I put in a coolant temp sensor and gauge I didnt realize how hot these cars run. Mine his 225 plus before the fans come one.

I know youve gotten all the air out...or I hope....so maybe your sending unit is faulty and the temps arent as high as you think? Do you have a temp gauge?

 

I'm using OBD for temps, so there is a possibility the sensor is faulty. I think the issue is just the small factory radiator and the packaging on everything. By this I consider how all the cooler stack on the front of this thing:

• L-shaped aftermarket intercooler rises above the radiator impeding airflow on the lower section
• Aftermarket oil cooler- installed behind the bumper support blocking the center and into the upper section of the radiator
• The A/C condenser sits between the oil cooler and the radiator covering a large part of the radiator.
• And behind the radiator sits a turbo generating tons of heat that will radiate back to the radiator

Thinking about all of this, I think I should relocate the oil cooler. I don't have anywhere to put it in direct airflow, so I'll have to add some electric fans. Next I need to look into better heat shielding for the turbo and downpipe. My third item to consider is the intercooler. I may look for a better cooler that is shaped more like the stock intercooler. This will allow more air to the radiator and may reduce boost loss across the intercooler. If all of that doesn't do it, it will be time for a custom radiator.

-bj

 

I guess these engines were not developed with racing in mind? What are other Mini racers doing to combat high temps?

 

Looked through your posts again....

You have a stage 2 tune from Mario (RPM tune)

..And an aftermarket equivalent JCW turbo

..And this setup only makes 13psi of boost??!! Much is amiss here. I have a RPM stage 2 tune as well and a stock N18 turbo, and can consistently hold 20psi to about 6K.

 

hmmm...maybe related to the heat issue or vice versa?

 

That was a problem I was having prior to going through all the hoses--there was boost leak. It makes 20-21 PSI pretty much everywhere, now.

-bj

 

First... Nice Clubman on the track...

Second... Not a bad water temp. My water temp (no tune R56S, with intercooler) may get that high out on the track. These engines run hot, as read with a Scan Gage. On the N18 engine I can read oil temp, too, on the scan gage and that will get in the 255 deg range.

One thing that happened with mine was the auxiliary water pump to the turbo died and that sent the oil temperatures sky rocketing (~280 degF)and, if I remember right, the water temps went up too.

 

Mine doesn't peak at 245ish, that's just where I start backing off. I know the water temp warning comes on at 247* F on my N14. As for oil temps, I was seeing over 300*F until I added the external oil cooler.

Thanks for mentioning the aux water pump. That is the one thing in the cooling system I haven't replaced yet. Maybe I'll get lucky and that will help.

-bj

 

300 deg on oil temp has me beat by a quite a bit...

A guy from Redline oil told me that oil temp can be dropped by going up a level or two in oil weight... I run 5-40 in my R56. I found Redline to be the best, but given cost the Motul I am now running is almost as good. Just FYI

 

Wow I had no idea engine oil weight would effect engine temps. Any idea as to why?

Sounds like you guys need extra engine oil, trans and water coolers.

 

That was something that I didn’t get from the Redline guy I talked to. And that was only for the higher of the 2 weight numbers (the lower being for cold temps). It did work a little, 5 to 10 deg lower in my very non-scientific “experiment”.

The short version of what happened is - I use a Scan Gage to monitor the engine. The N18 engine software gives an oil temperature*. Mine typically reads 255deg on the track. I was at an event where it was hitting 280ish. I panicked and asked around about why the jump. I was eventually pointed to a guy from Redline who was there. We talked for a while about oils and that was one of the things he told me. He stated as “matter of fact”, no other details. Next event I tried going from the 5-30 I was using to 5-40 and the temp was a bit lower, but not back where it was. So I went looking for other reasons for the jump. One thing I noticed was the fan would run for a really long time after shutting off the engine, which it didn’t do before. Even on the street it would do this. Then the thermostat died and when it was in the dealer to have that fixed I asked about the auxiliary water pump that cools the turbo bearings. Apparently it does throw a code when it dies, but it is a code that only the dealer can read (got to love MINI). With the new aux pump the oil temps were back in the 255 range. So it appears that the turbo was really cooking the oil when the aux pump wasn’t running and that was the source of my hot oil temps. Ok, if you noticed, I state my oil temps were 255 before the issue and the same after, but I switch the weight of oil in the middle. Now, with the aux pump working I should be 5 to 10 deg lower than before, given the oil switch. Fact is, I am going by recollection here and those are from what I remember seeing when I glanced at the gage while doing 110 mph on a straight... not the best source of data; like I said not very scientific...

Yes, you may be right about needing more coolers. I say “may be” as I don’t know what MINI has designed into the engine and engine management that might control these things. The coolant thermostat is computer controlled, so that might negate having a larger radiator. The engine also has a oil to coolant oil cooler, which would indicate that the oil temp is somewhat regulated by the engine coolant temperature.... In my MINI, this is all stock... The OP has a tune on his MINI and it changed some of this, so I don’t know if an added or larger radiators would help mine in the same fashion as he has been able to drop his oil temp...

Now, I am at a loss as to why he has high water temps...

*the N18 oil temp from the MINI ECU (which is what the Scan Gage reports) is a “calculated” value, not an actual measurement. Not sure how MINI does that. For me, it is not that I need to know the “real” temp. I just need to know the normal temp so if that number changes it will tell me if something might be going wrong.

 

Alter coolant mixture ratio to 75 % destilled water and 25 % G48. That's what's used in true race cars. Water provides a significantly higher heat capacity compared to glycol. Avoid using snake-oil "water wetter", since real water is superior.

.

 

I installed an oil pressure sensor and coolant temp gauge in my n14 2008 Cooper S (bone stock) after I installed a new engine. The dealer didn't even know what the operating temp for the engine was supposed to be. Sheesh.

Youre right...adding more capacity might not help if the thermostat doesnt open....

 

Actually, that may not be exactly true. G48 is ethylene glycol based antifreeze (link) per Valvolene. At the tracks around here, they prefer that ethylene glycol based coolant additives not be used because, if they are spilled on the track, they are far more slippery (eg dangerous) than plain water. Ethylene glycol based coolant additives are also a big PIA to clean off the track if spilled.

Water wetter (Red Line Oil (link)) is recommended on the track as it contains only anti-corrosion agents that a coolant system needs, but it contains no ethylene glycol which mean if coolant is dumped on a race track it is only as slippery as water. Also, it is mix in a 1:32 ratio, so the coolant is mostly water, and, as you say that should have better heat capacity than a 50:50 or 75:25 mix of antifreeze. By your word, it should cool better for that reason alone. Whether or not it does aid in engine cooling (yes, I see their claim in the discription and that can be argued forever) is somewhat immaterial for track use given the safety aspect. For the road, I would not use it as I live in the NE and it freezes here and I have seen first hand what water when frozen will do to an engine block. And, given the weather TX had last winter, I wouldn’t use it down south either for road use.

 

How about additional oil coolers? Does anyone sell a kit?

 

Eddie is spot-on--real race cars use water and Water Wetter or some other additive to prevent corrosion. This has a higher boiling point than gycol coolant and doesn't create hazards on the racing surface. While Watter Wetter doesn't do much to promote additional cooling, it does help keep things from getting as nasty when running straight water.

In my N14, I'm running 35%-40% coolant and the rest distilled water. This provides more than enough anti-corrosion and anti-freezing properties for a car in Texas.


I'm running an aftermarket oil cooler from Sneed4Speed and an upgraded CSF radiator. The upgraded CSF radiator isn't much of an upgrade from a capacity perspective.

While I will be replacing the aux water pump as suggested above, I think the real answer is going to be in optimizing airflow through the radiator, reducing heat radiating from the turbo and downpipe, and relocating the external oil cooler to allow more airflow to the radiator and prevent the oil cooler from radiating more heat into the radiator.

-bj

 

Here is a link to a guy who is running a heavily mod’ed and tune R56 on the track. He has had some issues with killing the aux water pump with too much heat from the exhaust down pipe. But, he has not had water temp issues. Maybe a difference in tunes and what they do? I think he is running the stock radiator and no added oil cooler.... Don’t know if you have seen this thread or not, or if it would be helpful... So, just FYI
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...he-making.html

 

Thanks, for the link, Eddie. This is helpful. Our powertrain is very similar (I wish I had his water injection, though). I do notice that besides not mentioning having an external oil cooler, he also has a blanket on the turbo and a larger exhaust. The latter isn't something I've considered--exhaust backpressure can increase turbo temps. High turbo temps will cause increased water and oil temps. Maybe I need to think about replacing my stock JCW exhaust. That said, I will move my oil cooler and try to reduce the turbo heat before investing in an exhaust. I'm becoming an old man and I prefer quieter exhaust when driving on the street.

-bj

 

I AM an old man, and don’t like loud exhausts. MINIs will drone pretty easily (as I found out years ago on my first MINI). My S still has the stock exhaust and I like its sound on the road. Just loud enough to hear. On the track, with the helmet and my bad ears.... There is no hearing it...

I don’t know much about tuning and setting up these engines, which is why my S is basically stock, and it is stronger than I think it should be (a Wednesday car?) so why muck with it. Also, it would seem to me that there is a big difference with tuning for the street vs the track. Someone like Scotty has done it with an R56 and worked through the issues. Glad that thread might be of a help....

An observation is who is doing his tune and why (I’ll let you read through). I do wonder if your tune is somehow affecting the water temp?