When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Just received a call from my daughter saying Charlie is behaving same as before. Starts, briefly runs rough, then dies. Since purchase, Charlie has the following new parts: HPFP, LPFP, in tank filter, spark plugs, coils, thermostat, water pump, water pipe, turbo tube. So, for five days the little car ran great then went back to the ways things have been for a long time. Sounds to me like there's an electrical issue somewhere. Is there a common electrical issue for these cars that may cause the LPFP to either stop working?
Is there nobody who has ever experienced one of these things frying low pressure pumps? With the cost of parts on these things, I'm just about ready to count my losses and set it ablaze.
Yes, it's been carbon blasted. Carbon blasting is irrelevant here, though. The car runs perfect, shut it off, then will not start. That's not symptomatic of a carbon issue. The new LPFP installed is no longer functioning after five days of flawless use.
With all all due respect, I've seen guys on here blindly go through their troubleshooting checklist of checking compression and carbon blasting, etc. What I need, though, is someone with real troubleshooting skills on the electrical system of these cars. This one is electrical and either there's a condition preventing the LPFP from operating or a condition causing the LPFP to be elecrically damaged. I'm going to start with the current LPFP, testing it's motor windings to verify a fault condition, then turn to the wiring in the vehicle.
There's a very good reason
why people ask
carbon buildup is the death of these motors
it's very possible you could have a cracked valve
bent valve or a bad valve seal
I've only been a mini tech for about six months now
&
before that I was a VW tech for eight years
I just checked the TSB
and generally people are not having issues with the feed pumps
but that doesn't make you wrong
When the car dises are you getting any type of codes
when you try to restart it what does it do
When you put a new HPFP in did you do it
or the dealer
trying to diagnose it over the Internet is not exactly the easiest thing
literally could be 100 different things wrong with it
for example
if you have a bad coolant temp sensor it's not going to throw any codes but it's going to have the same symptoms
as a HPFP would have
after getting it started it won't throw any codes
generally runs perfect untell you shut it off again
there are a lot of little things like that with these cars
that temp sensor
was an actual recall
just for an example
we
had a 09 jcw clubman
come in with a similar problem
turned out to be cracked intercooler
biggest thing is what is it doing when you try to restart it
unless you have rodents in your area to chew wires, I dont think the issue is electrical (physical wiring) perse.
When I revived my 2011 CM, although a different engine, my issue turned out to be the fuel rail pressure sensor.
Good diagnosis comes with good software and tools. Get yourself ISTAD which will help alot. I also recommend INPA, Winfkp, and NCS expert.
if you are near philly, i can help you also.
that's what am saying
when I say
could literally be 100 different things
if it was a gen 1 I possibly agree on the wiring idea
I think it something different
but without being there and actually seeing
really can't say for certain
unless you have rodents in your area to chew wires, I dont think the issue is electrical (physical wiring) perse.
When I revived my 2011 CM, although a different engine, my issue turned out to be the fuel rail pressure sensor.
Good diagnosis comes with good software and tools. Get yourself ISTAD which will help alot. I also recommend INPA, Winfkp, and NCS expert.
if you are near philly, i can help you also.
Hey, thanks for the tip on tools. I will look into it. I consider sensor to be part of the electrical system. I see you're thinking of just the wires. I'm not near philly, but thank you for the offer. Are you familiar with the electrical theory of the fuel system? Does the fuel rail pressure sensor prevent the LPFP from receiving a signal to operate?
There's a very good reason
why people ask
carbon buildup is the death of these motors
it's very possible you could have a cracked valve
bent valve or a bad valve seal
I've only been a mini tech for about six months now
&
before that I was a VW tech for eight years
I just checked the TSB
and generally people are not having issues with the feed pumps
but that doesn't make you wrong
When the car dises are you getting any type of codes
when you try to restart it what does it do
When you put a new HPFP in did you do it
or the dealer
trying to diagnose it over the Internet is not exactly the easiest thing
literally could be 100 different things wrong with it
for example
if you have a bad coolant temp sensor it's not going to throw any codes but it's going to have the same symptoms
as a HPFP would have
after getting it started it won't throw any codes
generally runs perfect untell you shut it off again
there are a lot of little things like that with these cars
that temp sensor
was an actual recall
just for an example
we
had a 09 jcw clubman
come in with a similar problem
turned out to be cracked intercooler
biggest thing is what is it doing when you try to restart it
I really do appreciate your input. I'm new to mini's and have quickly learned any issue can be caused by a plethora of items, even items that are not intuitive. I grew up drag racing and building engines, spent a couple decades as a certified mechanic, and am now an electrical engineer. I'm always looking to learn as much as I can about everything I turn my attention to.
There's not many miles on this car since its last carbon blast, maybe a few thousand. It has a catch can that helps a lot with that as well. The car doesn't die, it's dead. It ran great for five days, my daughter drove it to school, it would not start after school. There are no codes. The engine turns over, tries to start, but does not. The coolant sensor behavior you describe sounds familiar, though. Are there any other sensors that would allow the car to run fine, not throw any codes, then prevent the car from starting after shutting it down?
I haven't had an opportunity to get working on this issue yet, hoping to this weekend. So far, just did some online research that's led to what we already know...the problem could be many things. I have not located a wiring diagram for this car yet. Do you know where I could find one?
the sensor is indeed part of the electrical system. I can only make an educated guess about the fuel system. In my case, the sensor DID prevent the pump from pushing more gas into the engine. I had three extra HPFP in which none worked. So i moved to the sensor. close to 400 miles later, still running fine. Although now im having issues with thermostat...lol easy job
I really do appreciate your input. I'm new to mini's and have quickly learned any issue can be caused by a plethora of items, even items that are not intuitive. I grew up drag racing and building engines, spent a couple decades as a certified mechanic, and am now an electrical engineer. I'm always looking to learn as much as I can about everything I turn my attention to.
There's not many miles on this car since its last carbon blast, maybe a few thousand. It has a catch can that helps a lot with that as well. The car doesn't die, it's dead. It ran great for five days, my daughter drove it to school, it would not start after school. There are no codes. The engine turns over, tries to start, but does not. The coolant sensor behavior you describe sounds familiar, though. Are there any other sensors that would allow the car to run fine, not throw any codes, then prevent the car from starting after shutting it down?
I haven't had an opportunity to get working on this issue yet, hoping to this weekend. So far, just did some online research that's led to what we already know...the problem could be many things. I have not located a wiring diagram for this car yet. Do you know where I could find one?
I should also direct your attention to doing a compression test. You can also remove the spark plugs and see how they look. Finally, while they are out, shine some light in the holes and see if there is liquid (oil or gas) inside.
Lots of good suggestions so far. It's possible it might be electrical (bad relay, etc..). Check this link from Pelican for troubleshooting. Hope it helps.
I should also direct your attention to doing a compression test. You can also remove the spark plugs and see how they look. Finally, while they are out, shine some light in the holes and see if there is liquid (oil or gas) inside.
Ugh...can you tell me why you would think compression could be the issue?
Lots of good suggestions so far. It's possible it might be electrical (bad relay, etc..). Check this link from Pelican for troubleshooting. Hope it helps.
Thanks for the suggestion! I did go through this test procedure on the first go around with this issue. Everything checked out except the LPFP did not function...just as the issue stands today. The one week old LPFP is not functioning. It's either fried and I need to find the cause of it or there's a relay somewhere that needs attention. OR...there's a sensor somewhere preventing the relay from operating. OR..???
Give this a try
crank the car over a few time's
then go under the bonnet
go to the back
of the
HPFP
may need to pull a few thing's
and slow try
backing of the hard line
line from HPFP to the fuel rail
if fuel is getting to the pump it should
start pissing out on a half tuner
maybe a little over half
be-carefully
cuz it shot's out fast
Now the point of
this is
if fuel shot's out
after cranking an no start
your feed pump is
working
its something else going on
another thing
look at the soft line
see if there's and thing wrong with it
when you replace the
HPFP
you need to replace that line
its a one time use
press fitting seal in there
An as far as the fuel pump relay
i believe
its
F20
20A
could be wrong on that
The HPFP is new, as is the hard line. The car's no-start behavior that it has right now is the same no-start behavior it exhibited just prior to changing the LPFP. I could hear the LPFP operating after replacing it and the car functioned as it should. Since the car stopped operating, I can no longer hear the LPFP operating. It's functionality is not in question. It is not operating.
Next step is is to figure out why the LPFP is not operating. Ohming out the LPFP windings and direct voltage to the LPFP will help in determining if the pump is serviceable. Isn't F20 a fuse? I'm looking for a relay.
I removed the passenger fuse panel, had to separate it by removing two screws on the back and all fuses to gain access to the relays inside. All relays in there function as expected. I ohmed the fuses when putting everything back together just to be prudent, all are good. Removed the new spark plugs, verified gap setting, looked into cylinders. Plugs had some fuel on them from failed attempts to start the car. Checked codes after attempting to start a few times.
P0136-downstream o2sensor
P0442-evaporative emission system leak detected.
P0141-downstream O2 sensor heater circuit
Emptied the catch can. It was surprisingly full because I drained it...well...I guess I'm not exactly sure when I drained it. The car sat for months before I had it going again for five days. Figure this had something to do with the P0442 code?
Tested LPFP by applying voltage directly to pump. Ops check, good. Wires to LPFP tested for voltage, 10V while starter is turning. Fuel pressure reading a the rail is 210kPa. No sure if that's good?
Ugh...can you tell me why you would think compression could be the issue?
I suggested that to make sure that all conditions are met for a healthy ignition of gas. compression is also an indication of proper timing.
if the plugs were wet from gas, that means you have "flow" to the cylinders. Next, you need to check spark plugs if they are firing.
if my car was not starting, these are the steps that i would follow:
spray "quick start" after the intercooler at the elbow going down to the intake manifold. if no good,
check spark
check compression
check gas puffs while the spark plugs are out
from my diagnosis, the pressure preset for the LPFP is 500kPa.
do you see any water damage on that fuse box by the passenger kick panel?
Your rear o2
will most likely need to be
replaced '
but I don't think that would
have any thing
to do with why the car will not starting
rear is really only there
to tell you the cats are clogged things like that'
I think I would be looking
at the
vanos solenoid's
when you crank it over are you doing
it a few time ?
have you tryed cracking it tell the battery dies
are the fans kicking on
at any point
when trying to crank it
I suggested that to make sure that all conditions are met for a healthy ignition of gas. compression is also an indication of proper timing.
if the plugs were wet from gas, that means you have "flow" to the cylinders. Next, you need to check spark plugs if they are firing.
if my car was not starting, these are the steps that i would follow:
spray "quick start" after the intercooler at the elbow going down to the intake manifold. if no good,
check spark
check compression
check gas puffs while the spark plugs are out
from my diagnosis, the pressure preset for the LPFP is 500kPa.
do you see any water damage on that fuse box by the passenger kick panel?
Thank you for your response. I did not see any indication of a water issue on or near the fuse box when I had it removed. With the LPFP pressure at 210kPa when it should be 500kPa, is it possible for the LPFP to become clogged with debris? This may explain the reduced output pressure.
Your rear o2
will most likely need to be
replaced '
but I don't think that would
have any thing
to do with why the car will not starting
rear is really only there
to tell you the cats are clogged things like that'
I think I would be looking
at the
vanos solenoid's
when you crank it over are you doing
it a few time ?
have you tryed cracking it tell the battery dies
are the fans kicking on
at any point
when trying to crank it
I cranked it until the battery ran low yesterday. I charged the battery while doing the other work described, was at 12.3V when I attempted to start it again after putting it back together. I didn't notice the fans kicking on but will listen for it the next time I attempt to start it. I need to look into vanos solenoids, not sure what that/those are.
It's very possible your fuel filter is clogged
But if you've tested the pump
And you are getting Proper voltage
am guessing it's else ware
the vanos solenoid
on the n14 is located
on the top front of the head '
but generally they just go
with out symptoms
they also clog up
an I think you would if the fans come on
they are on full speed
02-28-2017, 01:06 PM
