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And that was a awesome video, I can feel the torque when you shift. hehe. Thank you for sharing. I wanna go and spectate oval racing someday. I should have done it when I was in North America. :(
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
Yes he said that, so I...
Put my car in my office and up in the air for 2 months without running.
Winter update begins.
Passenger seat and rail, belt tensioner removed.
24kg.
I will be relocating battery mounted on seat base.
Planted seat base and extended battery cable will add a bit of weight, but will bring better weight distribution.
Another reason for that seat base is to add ballast(if regulation requires)
Will be testing Braille AGM 2015 battery in this month(March 2016)
Next, rear wiper and rear hatch panel.
Motor, panel, wiper arm, wiper blade, bolts, nuts
2.2kg
A/C compressor, A/C lines, bracket
5.8kg
A/C Condensor, Washer bottle, Washer lines
3.28kg
Some wires not used anymore
0.52kg
It wasn't easy since there was no info about the serpentine belt length when A/C removed.
I picked 684mm from Realoem info, but it was too short, it looks like crank pulley size is vary as per market.
I didn't wanted to give up there, I ordered 4 belts with possible size,
ordered 700, 710, 720, 730mm.
Had to order one from Japan,
one from USA,
two from Korea(local belt factory)
There you go.
Belt from USA fits perfectly.
It was such a long period I don't even fired up the car,,
Had the car up on the lift for 60 days...
Planning further development...
Here is one of the update I was planning.
Updated duct inlet.
I had been utilized Sneed4Speed brake duct kit for a year and half, and felt I want to make it better.
I asked my work shop to design something like that and make it 3d printed.
Since I am running in time attack races, I may not need serious brake ducting, but since EDLC is still active, I know my Green Turtle needs cool air on the feet.
Cooling helps brake pad wear as well.
With that advanced duct design and extra space in engine bay now, I can always channel the air for some other purpose.
Took me 5 hours to put things altogether. (Under panel, Bumper, Grille..)
After 2 months of rest(?), finally getting ready for the upcoming season.
So I will see how 225/45 16 front + 205/50 16 rear works on track.
and I will see if additional 40kgs of weight reduction can reduce lap time for me.
Prototype parts are being weaved.
Test fit.
To be continued...
Last edited by mini_aaron; 03-08-2016 at 01:23 AM.
I do really like the way car looks, but it's not the end. I was telling me "It's just beginning."
Inspired from Japanese Time Trial Civics(Garage work EG/EK),
I was planning something little more extreme.
Curious how you like that wing set up vs. the GP style wing. Also, let me know how you like those tires. I'm on NT05's right now and looking to trade up soon.
Thx for asking details... Always happy to dig more with fellow miniacs.
For the front, I went with 38mm offset, from the experience from racing at local auto-x with 16x7 38mm mated with 225 45 16 tires for 2014 season.
For the record and more detail, my concern this time was not the tire width, but going with different width and diameter for the front and rear.
I already knew 225 square setup works okay with stock power, but couldn't find any info on 225 front 205 rear and with 4mm taller diameter for the rear with mini.
It seems that no one even tried such hardcore setup on their project for bmw minis.
I gave 1 degree more than last season's setup with rear camber.
I just came back from pre-season test&tune, and there is a bit of rubbing but want to leave it like that since I don't like too much camber at the rear.
You really have me curious as to why you are looking at trying out such as staggered set of tire/wheel size. It seems that having a that much of a smaller tire foot print in the back you are only reducing the traction in the rear of the car. This would really be hardcore as it seems that it would want to swap ends any time you are not full on the gas. Any insight as to the benefit you expect to gain that you can share?
Also, where was the rubbing?
...sorry for looking for so much detail, but you seem to think things out really well and have reasons for what you do and, as I said, I am curious.
And that was a awesome video, I can feel the torque when you shift. hehe. Thank you for sharing. I wanna go and spectate oval racing someday. I should have done it when I was in North America. :(
Enough torque that, on one of my later laps, I had the rear step out when I was coming out of the last turn and onto the front straight...
I did this at Watkins Glen where the NASCAR stock cars run on the road course (not an oval), which is what I was on. I didn't think to check my time against what the real pros do...maybe I will some day. The black truck that passed me right at the beginning of the video was a friend of mine who was doing his test and tune for the NASCAR Camping World event at Mosport later in that month. Much faster truck that the one I was in. He had about 300 HP more than me . He also complained that his truck had to have a restricter plate that cost him 200 HP. I had to remind him that the restricter plate was "bigger" than the whole engine in my MINI...
The guy that was in front of me was another friend. We were doing a Lead-Follow; he was leading, I was following. I did this so I would not get in over my head and wreck the truck, which is very possible on that track.
I was also out on the track in my MINI with some 956 Porsche LeMans prototype race cars from the early '80s. One was a Jagermeister car...sweet If you want I can post a link to that video...
Curious how you like that wing set up vs. the GP style wing. Also, let me know how you like those tires. I'm on NT05's right now and looking to trade up soon.
Havn't had a chance to actually try a mini with GP wing, but I decided to go with real GT-Wing after years of consideration.
GT Wing really makes difference with rear grip on track. Will do the same thing.
And that Sneed wing mounting gives me true adjustability with angle, I can setup my car for various track conditions.
Just had a chance to try RE71R on track last week, It's a cheater.
Everyone says that and I agree. I couldn't adjust myself to the grip level even after 2 sessions. Carry way more speed at the corners, and Reduce speed much quicker with braking. (But remember I put wider tires at the front)
You really have me curious as to why you are looking at trying out such as staggered set of tire/wheel size. It seems that having a that much of a smaller tire foot print in the back you are only reducing the traction in the rear of the car. This would really be hardcore as it seems that it would want to swap ends any time you are not full on the gas. Any insight as to the benefit you expect to gain that you can share?
Also, where was the rubbing?
...sorry for looking for so much detail, but you seem to think things out really well and have reasons for what you do and, as I said, I am curious.
Tire footprint is also affected by "load", and since the rear tires are not getting enough weight load to "utilize" wide tires, and if you have aerodynamic downforce to hold the grip at high speeds, you can be okay only with optimal(I wouldn't say "minimal") tread width.
Think about the load distribution on our cars at track,
(I will post corner weight numbers of my car soon)
65%of weight lying on front tires and 35% on the rear and that is when the car is standing still.
When braking and turning in to the corners, even more weight tries to squeeze the front tires and fronts are easily give up.
While the rear tires can't make that much of contact patch. Even if they have wide tread. (Less load = Less contact patch)
With going 225 front and 205 rear, I just wanted to test/prove giving optimal amount of contact patch distribution per side. While preventing high speed oversteer with aerodynamic(gigantic rear wing and diffuser)
But I wouldn't recommend this staggered setup to others, since my car have gone through weight reduction here and there(diffrent weight distribution compared to stock/near stock cars) and springs, aero setup is different from those of others.
Tire width is not the matter, balancing the car with tuning and matching/adjusting many elements matters.
Will update soon with my impression from recent track test.
Enough torque that, on one of my later laps, I had the rear step out when I was coming out of the last turn and onto the front straight...
I did this at Watkins Glen where the NASCAR stock cars run on the road course (not an oval), which is what I was on. I didn't think to check my time against what the real pros do...maybe I will some day. The black truck that passed me right at the beginning of the video was a friend of mine who was doing his test and tune for the NASCAR Camping World event at Mosport later in that month. Much faster truck that the one I was in. He had about 300 HP more than me . He also complained that his truck had to have a restricter plate that cost him 200 HP. I had to remind him that the restricter plate was "bigger" than the whole engine in my MINI...
The guy that was in front of me was another friend. We were doing a Lead-Follow; he was leading, I was following. I did this so I would not get in over my head and wreck the truck, which is very possible on that track.
I was also out on the track in my MINI with some 956 Porsche LeMans prototype race cars from the early '80s. One was a Jagermeister car...sweet If you want I can post a link to that video...
It's very interesting to hear how you play at track with the monsterous trucks.
Yes I wanna see the video featuring 956, as a big fan of Le Mans! (Been there to watch the race in 2011 and 2012)
Tire footprint is also affected by "load", and since the rear tires are not getting enough weight load to "utilize" wide tires, and if you have aerodynamic downforce to hold the grip at high speeds, you can be okay only with optimal(I wouldn't say "minimal") tread width.
Think about the load distribution on our cars at track,
(I will post corner weight numbers of my car soon)
65%of weight lying on front tires and 35% on the rear and that is when the car is standing still.
When braking and turning in to the corners, even more weight tries to squeeze the front tires and fronts are easily give up.
While the rear tires can't make that much of contact patch. Even if they have wide tread. (Less load = Less contact patch)
With going 225 front and 205 rear, I just wanted to test/prove giving optimal amount of contact patch distribution per side. While preventing high speed oversteer with aerodynamic(gigantic rear wing and diffuser)
But I wouldn't recommend this staggered setup to others, since my car have gone through weight reduction here and there(diffrent weight distribution compared to stock/near stock cars) and springs, aero setup is different from those of others.
Tire width is not the matter, balancing the car with tuning and matching/adjusting many elements matters.
Will update soon with my impression from recent track test.
Very interesting ideas...
Are doing any data logging? Or plan to?
I am very interested to hear how you make out.
I am looking at some simple aero mods like a splitter and the rear diffuser. I am also looking at going to 15" wheels from the 17" to lower the car an inch and install springs with about 0.75" drop which should all help with aero. I need to keep the car streetable, including the winter and snow, so I can't go too extreme.
It's very interesting to hear how you play at track with the monsterous trucks.
Yes I wanna see the video featuring 956, as a big fan of Le Mans! (Been there to watch the race in 2011 and 2012)
Wow - those races must have been exciting to watch. I can't imagine how those drivers do a race like that. 30 min on the track is tiresome enough for me...
Well, here is my little Le Mans...the beginning is the two cars on their warm up lap (which is close to my full speed ). Then, about 9-1/2 minutes in I get passed which is really neat to see...enjoy:
Ever since I install the 25mm RSB I have been plagued by clunking. I was originally told it was likely due to the bushings that it is mounted with. Clunking with these larger RSBs seems to be somewhat of an issue with these larger bars from my reading on NAM. I recently acquired a set of adjustable sway bar linkings, much beefier than the stock ones, and replace the stock ones. Woo Hoo - the clunking is gone.
But the odd thing is that I also noticed is that the car/suspension seems tighter now and more precise, as if the stock endlink were flexing (in addition to just making noise).
I would suggest that you try a set of these if you don't have them already. Maybe I am imagining things with this change, but it is an easy change to do. Just a thought for you.
Hey, great thread, I just checked the initial post(on page #1) and some other pages, and yes, you are on the same way as I am on.
One thing is it's good advantage of you to have 86 as a daily.
I am also looking for a daily FR car to train myself to go further after current project. Great build, will subscribe yours! :D
Originally Posted by Rennfahrer555
Hi man - really enjoy your build thread. Check mine out:
Very interesting ideas...
Are doing any data logging? Or plan to?
I am very interested to hear how you make out.
I am looking at some simple aero mods like a splitter and the rear diffuser. I am also looking at going to 15" wheels from the 17" to lower the car an inch and install springs with about 0.75" drop which should all help with aero. I need to keep the car streetable, including the winter and snow, so I can't go too extreme.
Will post the result soon.
And on the Data logging,
the company I am working (BROS / MotorKlasse) is a developer for the only Korean made Data logging/Dash integrated control system.
They have data loggers called Laptor R1, R2 and Laptor Mini.
Above is Laptor series, and I am using just Laptor Mini portable data logger.
Saves A LOT OF money and time.
Wow - those races must have been exciting to watch. I can't imagine how those drivers do a race like that. 30 min on the track is tiresome enough for me...
Well, here is my little Le Mans...the beginning is the two cars on their warm up lap (which is close to my full speed ). Then, about 9-1/2 minutes in I get passed which is really neat to see...enjoy:
Pre season updates, Corner weight numbers and Dyno test
So the ideas and realizations goes on.
Our workshop, BROS Motorsport.
ASM Wide S2000 at the front,
and seriously gutted Altezza.. belongs to my track mates.
You can see my Green Turtle on the lift back there.
That Altezza(Actually IS200 with Altezza 3S-GE+Toda High cam+Toda Stroker kit) belongs to my boss, soon to be featured at SpeedHunters.
You can see he routed the exhaust upward and sealed the entire bottom with huge diffuser.
(Illinois license plate is just a joke since the car is not street legal anymore in Korea.)
S2000 with Mugen hood is belongs to my the other boss, that is the fastest naturally aspired S2000 in Korea.
(With 2000cc displacement and mere power mods)
That one have even more serious under body aero setup, all customized parts.
Now it's time for Green Turtle!
3D printed air inlet.
I wanted to replace Sneed4Speed inlet piece.
Comparison with Sneed's part.
And the brake side.
Comparison again with previous brake duct hose bracket.
Instead of routing the air right to the side of the rotor surface,
Basically our setup routes the air to "inside" of the rotor, so that the air comes in to the rotor and out to the side edge of the rotor passing the vanes in the rotor.
As a time trial car(competes in Time Trial races), People says I won't need that much of brake cooling,
but in real world, keeping the stock brake system mated with XP10 and 225 RE71R(may be R comp later),
Heat capacity of the entire brake system is so low considering the amount of grip it's making.
Done.
Since my laptime is already making me (and other racers) to start to worry about oil feeding, I wanted to be prepared. (cornering speed/g)
Time for Baffled oil pan.
Design of mini stock pan seems pretty tight and it looks like the oil feeding issue won't be a big deal for most of track used minis.
But I wanted to make sure.
The pan is off anyways, why won't I put a layer of steel in it?
Surely the job is done by my fellow mech.
Done.
Next idea was taken from that S2000 with Red/Black color,
They have developed that specific parts for their own S2000 ealier, and I wanted to try.
Why not? Corvettes have the same thing from the factory. :D (With vertical fin attached)
This time, I wanted to do for Rear only, since I have my complete front end aero idea in my mind.
Will do it next year with more carbon/aluminium stuff.
Having ET 32mm ish offset at the rears, I am sure that the wheel deflector is a must for my time attack mini.
Now it's time for put the turtle on the scale.
Beautiful numbers. (All metric)
Nothing was adjusted, and that was the first time ever I put my mini on corner weight scale, and the initial number was unbelievable as you can see.
Note that I forgot to remove some stuffs in the trunk and the gas tank was 1/4 full.
(So I'm assuming the actual weight will be around 1110kgs with wing on.)
And dyno time.
As many of you know, numbers are just numbers.
Dyno machine is being used to tune the car, compare the mods, and the car's torque/power characteristics.
In my case,
I just wanted to make sure my car is on stock power.
(with no particular power mods)
Already made 190 whp from the other dyno shop couple of months ago, I was expecting lower numbers from this brand new dynojet machine.
(Dyno numbers are vary, but stock R56S LCI usually makes 170~180 whp)
The result was disappointing.
190 whp again.
So I can't say that my car is on stock power anymore. :(
Looks like intake/exhaust/intercooler?/charge pipe/discharge pipe doing a very good job on my car.
So the next post will be about my test and tune day ended with a crash...
Last edited by mini_aaron; 03-18-2016 at 05:36 AM.
Hey, great thread, I just checked the initial post(on page #1) and some other pages, and yes, you are on the same way as I am on.
One thing is it's good advantage of you to have 86 as a daily.
I am also looking for a daily FR car to train myself to go further after current project. Great build, will subscribe yours! :D
Thanks man. I def recommend the 86 as a daily. Tons of fun easy to get sideways but slow enough that I dont get pulled over as much as with my WRX which I traded in.
The only problem is ... once you got rwd .... you never go back ... maybe. It is tough. But fwd is tons of fun to drive once you get a big rear sway bar and trick it into being a rwd kind of.
Anyway ... I wish i had the technical knowledge and experience you do and access to tools.
I must admit that I am very very useless in a garage. My main skill is on the driving side and even there I need a lot of work. It is a work in progress and I am learning something new everyday. Glad you enjoy. Maybe we can meet up one day stateside!
What a previlege to race with the legends! :D
Surprised that those Prototypes are still on service..
I guess not owned by team but a private?
It was really nice to watch the video... I recall the time I was at Le Mans on 2012 watching event race featuring Group C race cars like Sauber C7...
Thank you; glad you enjoyed. Sorry they weren't in the video for very long. Trust me, I was trying as hard as I could to stay up with them. You saw how well that worked...
Yes, these cars are all privately owned. There are actually a few of them in this area. People race these cars in vintage racing events and I believe the Porsches were there doing test and tune for one of those events. At the end of the video you can see the 2 Porsches in the pits and you probably noticed, as I was pitting, the tow truck on the track for the stock car that was off the track at turn one (he lost his brakes...). The trailers you see in the paddock are typical of this type of event.
This was an invitation only HPDE event that is put on so people can get track time to do race car test and tune without the fear of having someone else wrecking them (one rule - Play nice!). The cost is modest to do this for 2 days and a lot cheaper than renting the track by yourself. I am not sure I can list all of the cars that were there but besides the 2 Le Mans Porsches there were 2 stock cars, 3 stock trucks, a Mustang endurance race car, that blue car in the video (not sure what was wrong with it) a few open wheel cars and a race prep'ed GT3 with 2 turbos, each about a foot in diameter and an intercooler the size of a MINI's engine .
03-07-2016, 10:40 PM
Always happy to dig more with fellow miniacs.
