If the temperature is cold the oil will drain very slowly into the drip pan. Also you need to consider the change in volume with temperature as shown on the following post. The oil filter will not fill until after the engine is run. I would suggest you check the oil level again after it has reached full overating temperature.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...584-post1.html

Morris, 2011 MC, PW/B

 

I just checked my dealer overfill using this method. It confirms an overfill that is 1/4" onto the metal rod ABOVE the top of the top plastic bulb (1" above the reading):



Called the dealer to question this. SA says it is nothing to worry about. I asked if they do this intentionally, she said they sometimes overfill because people don't always check their oil regularly.

So, no confirmation that this is Mini's "policy", but confirmation that it does happen and dealer claims it is not an issue.

They have 5 quarts on the invoice (which they would even if they only used 4.4, but it appears they put the entire 5 quarts into mine.

 

I believe the only people who are qualified to give you a valid answer to "how much is too much?" Would be a mechanic or engineer of the engine design. Some one who knows when the oil level starts to hit the crankshaft and starts aerating, foaming or whatever . Did the engineer/designer give some leeway after max?.Since overfilling is such a common practice your SA isn't going to care if he doesn't hear its a problem from Mini customer service. These places like to knock that oil change in 30 minutes, the mechanics are under pressure to get as many done as possible in the Estimated Time of Completion.

 

While I appreciate your reply, no one with any expertise has answered my question regarding whether or not if it is OK to overfill the oil. Like I said, the owners manual clearly states that overfill is a "no no" and can have longterm negative effects. Have you happened to notice that BMW has been silent on this? As has the dealer that does my free service. The only response that I received from the dealer was from a "SA", and I mentioned his response in my original post. I tried to get a response from another SA from the same dealer that is a member of our club and he would not respond????????????????? One thing that I have learned from this is that othe than prepaid maintenance, it is foolish to have a Mini serviced at a dealer. They don't give a **** and could in the long run profit from their misdeeds.
Sorry, but its hard for me to see it any differently.

 

It sure would be nice to know from Mini/BMW what the real deal is on this. Mine looks like it is about 5/8" overfill on the dip stick. Haven't drained any yet, but the owners manual comment has me thinking I should. May crack the plug and let a half quart out just to be safe...

PS: Sure wish this thing had a dry sump!

 

When this happened to me, I did some internet research, and asked some mechanics. The upshot was that it is not an issue as long as the oil is not getting foamed up by the crankshaft, and then draw foamy oil into the system which would create pockets of air.

Everyone seemed pretty confident that ONE quart would NOT cause a problem. It would take a couple of quarts to do it. There IS some room for error built in to the system, some breathing space if you will.

I went out and used a cheap hand pump, inserting it into my dipstick channel, and pulled out oil until it showed the right level. Then I cleaned that pump and sat it where I could use it next time if need be.

The hand pump was only about $6 and we had to add a little adapter and smaller rubber hose for the end that sticks down into the channel, so maybe $8 total.


If you clean it, it will also be useful for things like pumping the last of the water out of a toilet before you pull it, or out of the washing machine if it breaks and you need to drain it.

You might want to buy one, it's an investment in peace of mind.

 

Joannie,
While I always appreciate your response, I am still totally dissatisfied with Bmw's response. Between the dealers and BMW, there's a lot of " BS" floating around.

 

Not sure whether it is BS or they simply don't know how to answer you. Why in the world they overfill is beyond most of our reasoning. If the oil comes out of a barrel and is measured, why not do the exact right amount and save money, like the peanut butter companies that made the bottom of their jars convex and charged the same amount? Seriously, they overfill by almost a quart because they 'know' that the car will burn oil and the customer is too dumb to check it? Is there a nefarious 'corporate policy' that we cannot be told, or is it just easier for mechanics under time constraints to pump in more than they need to, and not check the dipstick afterward?

I do sympathize, dpcompt, I really do. We shouldn't HAVE to do anything to our cars after they come back from the dealer. The job should be done exactly and competently.... unfortunately, it isn't always, and we have to be proactive....

The best antidote is to develop a good relationship with your SA and then make a point that you prefer your oil level to be exact. That it MATTERS to you and that you do check your oil level regularly, so please tell the mechanic that you want yours just perfect. It does work.

 

You may never get your answer, but if you speak some French maybe some Peugeot, Citroën, or SAAB Forums might have answer Since they share the N14 too. Oil pan may be different for each. Mini Customer Service is just relaying standard/generic legal responses. Assuming the attached photo is an N14 it gives you a good idea where the crankshaft is. Myself I can only assume that max on the dipstick is the top of the oil pan. I'm sure someone will chime in.. but it appears to have plenty of margin for error. In other words I would think 5 or even 5 1/2 quarts total wouldn't be detrimental.

Owning a few different makes of cars makes me realize one thing. I will never buy another Mini. Until they start showing up on the positive side of the reliability list and not just dealer propaganda. For the price of this car, it should have a dipstick you can just pull out ,wipe,stab in again, then pullout and BAM there is your answer the first time. I would also expect it to not have a stat like 1 out of every 40 will have an engine failure*. And I bet Mini has the stats for Timing chain, Thermostat, and plain over revving. Its like they built this car using the cheapest lightest parts they could find. because strong quality parts would have costed a fortune. Maybe the future 3 cyl will prove differently, but from what i gather here BMW is going downhill too.


*

*

 

I am pretty sure BMW / MINI will not respond with an answer. Try calling the 1-800 number and asking them. When I did they told me to contact the dealers. They told me the dealers are trained and are the most qualified to answer any questions.

 

this is the importance of getting your SA to document its overfull/over serviced. They will either find any lame excuse to not do it, Once they do, they know they are now legally liable for problems caused by over servicing and they absolutely don't want that. So they should empty back to MAX. Frankly being a picky customer I would call them out on it. Well if "its not a problem then you should have no problem added that little note in the Maint history" At my stealership I have one service advisor I like and respect and the other one is a doorknob. I would use a little more tact with the one I respect. The squeeky wheel gets the grease or gets kicked out of the dealership.

 

Fyi

 

I assume the high and low marks on the dipstick are as shown in the following post. The distance between the high and the low marks is approximately 1.4". From your picture, I estimate that your are approximately 0.56" over the full mark. The amount of overfill is:

.56" x 1 quart/1.4" = .40 quarts

This would be a total of 4.4 + .4 = 4.8 quarts.

I would remove the excess oil.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...02-post34.html

Morris, 2011 MC, PW/B

 

Not sure if this helps but take a look at the motor with the pan off.


See links:
http://www.penskeparts.com/ShowImage...g&rnd=35024873
http://www.penskeparts.com/ShowImage...g&rnd=35248320

 

The dealer overfilled mine the first time I had it done back when it was newer.I got all whipped into a frenzy the next day because it was over the dipstick line. They put 5 quarts on the paperwork. I called the SA and he said chill out. But I sucked out the extra with a tube. Now I think that's stupid. The dipstick isn't the most accurate way to tell. And the car can handle a little extra or a little deficit fine. Sure the dipstick isn't the easiest to read, but if that's one of the worst parts of the car I'll take it.

 

Joannie explained it well. The dealers in most cases are trying to do the right thing. MINI has made checking the oil level and filling to the right level very difficult. The people making the oil changes have the same difficulty reading the dipstick. They probably don't check the level with the dipstick after filling the oil because of the accuracy of the pumps. If the MINI is level when they drain the oil, there will be quite a bit of oil still in the oil pan. You can see in the following picture that the drain opening is above the bottom of the oil pan. If they add the correct amount of oil without getting almost all of the oil out, the oil will be overfilled. Several of the people on this site have learned to drain the oil with the car jacked at the front tire on the drivers side. This puts most of the oil over the drain hole and drains more out than if the car is level. This may explain some of the unintentional overfilling.

Morris, 2011 MC, PW/B

 

I have never had any problems reading the stock dipstick, I get the exact same reading every time. There is no way Mini is going to allow all the oil to properly drain, it's for this reason I do all of my oil changes myself!

 

Reading some of the posts regarding oil, like Lardtastic's as quoted above, it surprises me that people go so long without checking their oil levels. He went 4,000 miles without knowing that his oil was way overfilled? 4,000 miles? Other people report that they have engine lights come on, and when the car gets into the shop, it is almost out of oil. If there is one take away from this, it is that you need to check your oil level--regularly!! We can't do a lot to help our cars, but checking the oil level is one thing that we CAN do.
Systemlord, considering that you have an 07 S, and oil consumption can be an issue, please be sure that you are not getting a false reading due to the configuration of the stock dipstick and channel, which tends to smear and drag oil through the channel and to obscure the actual level.

 

How many quarts does it normally take to fill an engine like the I4 Mini engine? I put 5 quarts of oil into the engine, I'll make a guess depending on how long other's allow for the oil to drain and say 4.4 gallons, I mean how much oil is capable of filling up the oil pan to the top?

As for the reading I got from minimum to maximum was very linear, adding a little more each time brought the oil level up to the max line. It's hard to believe that a 1.6 liter engine would need more than 5 quarts of oil. What is this about oil consumption, where is the oil getting consumed?

 

The oil consumption is tied to the turbo models, and info on that is in multiple threads here. It seems that there is an inherent design in the N14s that cause it, and along with the heat created by that engine (and possibly lack of adequate oil cooling capability) the oil levels can drop AS MUCH AS one quart per thousand miles in extreme cases. Yikes! Both oil consumption, lack of viscosity due to high heat, and general breakdown of the oil, all contribute to many issues for your MINI's engine, and especially the dreaded timing chain.

 

I thought the timing chain issue was a result of a defective timing chain tensioner do to the piston not fully extending far enough. I check my oil every two weeks because I do 50 percent city and 50 percent highway miles.

 

4.4 gallons?

MINI's internal technical service document lists oil capacity by motor.

N12 (2007+ MINI Cooper) and N16 (latest motor) – 4.20 liters / 4.4381 quarts
N14 (2007+ MINI Cooper S) and N18 (latest motor) – 4.20 liters / 4.4381 quarts

Oil change tips:
An oil change is not hard to do but done properly it will take a long time on a R56S.
To drain the oil out of the motor the oil needs to be warm. To change the filter the coolant and turbo needs to be cold. I drain my oil when the oil is warm (let the car sit for 15 min after a 15 min or so drive) and remove the filter after I rotate the wheels (clean them at the same time) from back to front and adjust the tire pressure. Then the motor is cool and I don't burn my hands and all the oil drains out of the filter. The pan is empty except for the part that is trapped in the low part of the pan. It takes about an hour.

Make sure that you have everything that is required for the job before you start. Nothing is more frustrating than emptying your oil, only to find out that you don’t have a replacement filter or enough oil. You will need an oil filter kit, a 10 mm socket, a 27 mm socket, a new drain plug crush washer, an Allen key set with an 8 mm, a roll of paper towels, a very large oil pan or bucket, and 5 quarts of approved synthetic oil. Make sure you get A 27 mm 6 point socket for removing the oil filter housing.

Filling
When adding I take my time. At around 4 quarts I start the motor to charge the new filter and prime the pump. When adding the last .4 I check the level about 4 times (fill some and check, add as needed). I wait about 5 min (with the stick out) between adding and checking. When the oil is cold the level should be about 85-90% full on the stick (don't add more). Check the level when the oil is warm using the proper methods. Make sure the car is dead level when checking the oil level.

 

I'm not a mechanic but having read a LOT about the timing chains, the failures tend to be linked to low oil levels and/or oil that has thickened or lost its viscosity. The 'cold start death rattle' seems to be caused by the oil not getting into the tensioner when the cold weather makes it flow slower. It can be temporarily be fixed by adding new oil. Eventually the timing chain tensioner would fail anyway, but the oil condition or level seems to cause an earlier failure. And, despite not being able to get a piece by piece difference between the two engines explained, it is clear that the N16 non sport engine has the same timing chain and tensioner but doesn't fail like that. No doubt someone will correct my info if it's wrong. :-)

 

I agree with you JoanieB!



Chains are made up of many side plates connected with bearings/ pins. The bearings/ pins must have oil to prevent the bearings from sticking. The bearings or pins alter/ are compromised with use and the chain elongates. Although the overall effect is often called "stretch", chains generally wear through attrition of the bushings (or half-bushings) and not by elongation of the side plates. Because an old chain is longer than needed, its links will not precisely fit the spaces between teeth in the sprocket. Since chain wear is strongly aggravated by dirt getting into the links, the lifetime of a chain depends mostly on how well it is cleaned (and lubricated) and does not depend on the mechanical load. Clean oil and lack of sludge can increase chain life.

I think the chain wear is due to lack of oil/ old oil, heat, load from cold start and or age (run time with all the factors). The chain tensioner extends to keep tension but can't take up the slack at some point. The chain rattles and breaks down the plastic guides. Plastic chain guide parts find new homes within the assembly.