Hello,

I had a timing chain rattle that would pop up on cold starts. Its not as bad as some of the youtube videos out there but you could definitely hear the "marble in a can" noise. The video below is a video I made before it went into the dealer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzxsslIJG6g


After getting it back from the dealer they said they only replaced the chain tensioner. The paperwork states they measured the chain at 70MM. From reading the 11 02 07 SIM linked below it clearly states if the chain measure 68MM or MORE that the chain tensioner, timing chain, guide rail, tensioner rail, sliding rail, crankshaft sprocket, and bearing bolts for tensioner and guide rails need to be replaced. Has anyone else had them only replace the tensioner when it needed more? Is this their new standard operating procedure or are they trying to get out of doing the right thing for me?

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...m-11-02-07.pdf

 

I went through the process with the dealer for my chain that measured 69mm. After weeks of arguing, they replaced everything out of "good will", which I denied. The chain was out of their own spec and is NOT good will, but defective....and that's what the paperwork says.

Bottom line...be persistent and don't take no as an answer....get MINI USA involved to track the problem.

 

Thanks for sharing. I was hoping it wouldn't have to be an ordeal but I suppose I'll just have to make it one.

 

So I've spoken with the dealer and they state that SIM 11 02 07 has been updated to only replace the timing chain, rails etc if the timing chain slack measures 72mm or more. He didn't want to send me the entire SIM but did send me a screenshot of the paragraph in question that was updated with this 72mm business. If this is in fact true its really disappointing that MINI knows about this issue but only puts a bandaid on the issue hoping the car will blow up after it is out of warranty so they can get more $$$.

The SIM I linked to in the original post was released in March 2009. I also found another one that was released in October 2010 that did not change. Does anyone have access to the latest SIM 11 02 07? Or has anyone else been given this explanation?

 

As part of my ordeal, I had to take the car in four times last winter and let it sit at the dealership to have them start it up in the morning....each time they say no rattle. Then of course, I bring it home and the next morning, there it is but I take a video with my iPhone and drive to the dealership to show them. After basically making a small scene in the service area, they agreed to measure the timing chain and reported back 68mm...right at the limit. I asked to see the measuring tool and they did.....on the back of the tool, it says accuracy is calibrated to +/- 2mm.

So the engineer in me kicks in and I say..."so it could be 70mm"? Blank look. Still no joy so I go to MINI USA and give them the lowdown and basically say that based to the information that I now have in writing, they own the liability for each day I drive the car since its out of spec. 24 hours later they call to have the car brought in to the dealer for a good will total replacement of the timing chain, etc. I say no thanks to the good will, but I will accept a warranty repair as it is out of spec. They agree and write down the chain measured at 69mm.

That's the short version.

 

What's the difference between a good will replacement and a warranty repair?

 

It's a legal term (I deal with this all the time in my business).

Simple terms...."good will" means they will do the fix without admission of an issue and thereby no warranty is granted or implied. If MINI doesn't do the job right or it occurs again, you own it and have no course of action. Accepting good will forfeits your rights under legal terms.

"warranty" means it'sMINI's issue and they fix it....and if it acts up again, they fix it, and if it caused something else to break, they fix it...all at no cost to you.

 

Crap, I hope this isn't my issue that happened yesterday. I have a heard a rattle this past week. Yesterday my engine starts jumping. I stopped at a place and they coded it and said it was the camshaft sensor going "retarded" OR the timing belt... I thought that was a big if... Thoughts? It's a 2007MCS

 

Well the death rattle has been heard by many and is a known issue with the N14 engine....if you head a rattle, was it at cold startup? If so, then you have a tensioner issue...if its bad enough and has thrown a cam sensor CEL, then you need to get to a mechanic pronto...every mile in this case could be the last if the timing chain is so loose or stretched that it has skipping a tooth.

If you have an extended warranty, take it to the dealer, if not, find an independent mechanic as they will be less expensive.

 

It was my understanding that MINI covers the timing chain issue up to 100K miles since its a known problem? or maybe that was the high pressure fuel pump.. hmm!

 

Yes, the HPFP is covered to 100k, the timing chain is yours after the warranty is up.

 

Ok, so has anyone done the timing chain themselves?? The $'s for the dealership to do the service seems pretty high. I'm out of warranty and not wanting to drop $K on this.

 

So I got my 2007 MCSa back in October (and it is chili red. Imagine that! ) and have been reading about this timing tensioner issue. Mine has done the rattle thing 4 times since I got the car. I had a local shop that claims to specialize in Minis look at it and they assured me it was within spec and does not need to be changed at this time.

Anyway, I have been thinking about this issue. My BMW K1200R motorcycle had an issue with it's tensioner just like this. And the owners got the same response from BMW.

This lead to one of the owners and a company called Ape Race Parts to develop a solid, mechanical tensioner. No springs and not dependent on oil pressure. CLICK This tensioner truly fixed the problem. No rattle, no way it can let the chain go slack and no need to have oil pressure. It works simply brilliant!!

Has anyone looked into doing this for the Mini? Does anyone have any interest in this?

If I still had access to a machine shop, I would be posting pics of my new tensioner.

Bill

 

All rattles are not associated with the tensioner. some cold start rattles are just low oil. We see ALOT of people come in with at least 1qt low on oil and its resolved by topping it up. Spec on the chains is 68-72mm and MINI has come out with a longer tensioner that will keep the chain tight untill 72mm. If somebody comes in with a rattle, and they are below 72mm, and they are full on oil, procedure states to replace the tensioner. If they are above 72, procedure is to replace the chain and inspect for further damage including guides, tensioner ect.

 

Errrr, not in my case. Seems every dealer likes to interpret "guidelines" differently. I didn't want or accept the bandaid. Stick up for your rights and be a pain in the rear end to the dealer! They tried the low on oil line....they just forgot that they just did the oil change a week earlier! Then the double speak and BS....give me a break! Just fix the car and stand by the product!

 

Just curious, since the issue seems to be with the tensioner, has anyone ever considered just adding the tensioner replacement to their periodic maintenance items? I mean, to buy one costs less than an oil change, and it's not hard to replace, right?

Some folks replace their oil early just to be on the safe side, seems like this could be something along those lines. Mine has been two years this month since the previous owner had the whole shebang replaced and I've considered just tossing a new tensioner in there to be on the safe side.

 

No Rattle to speak of but performance is down for the first mile or two in the morning. Took it in and asked that they check the tensioner and replace if necessary. Dealer says I have a broken guide rail and the job will cost $2,959.70!