R56 $7000.00 engine repair bill??? Would engine replacement be cheaper??
#1
11-03-2012, 03:50 AM
$7000.00 engine repair bill??? Would engine replacement be cheaper??
Last week I had to have my wifes 08 cooper s towed to our local dealer. It sounded like it was only running on 3 cylinders when you started it. The car has 39k miles on it and is out of warranty by 5 months. We were first told that the timing guide cracked and caused the "timing chain" to jump and threw off the timing. Since these are all plastic i can understand how they could crack or break. Now they are saying there is no compression in the first cylinder due to the exhaust valve being damaged. So now they want to replace all 4 cylinders plus the first exhaust valve. They said the total would be around $7000 for all the work that needs to be done to repair the engine, at this point would it not be cheaper to just replace the engine?
Also, they are claiming that low oil pressure caused this to happen, even though I am religious about checking and changing the oil when needed. They said there are NO oil pressure sensors on my car.
So let me get this straight, they have sensors for everything else, but expect you to go 15k miles between oil changes and have no sensors to let you know if the oil is loosing viscosity. I am completely frustrated at this point. They said they contacted Mini and they were willing to give 500 dollars towards the repair, but since I did the last oil change myself and used Mobile 1 5w30 full synthetic and didn't use "Mini Oil' they could not do anything else.
I contacted Mini customer service myself and they are going to do some "Research" and get back to me in a day or so. Has anyone else had this type of issue?
Also, they are claiming that low oil pressure caused this to happen, even though I am religious about checking and changing the oil when needed. They said there are NO oil pressure sensors on my car.
So let me get this straight, they have sensors for everything else, but expect you to go 15k miles between oil changes and have no sensors to let you know if the oil is loosing viscosity. I am completely frustrated at this point. They said they contacted Mini and they were willing to give 500 dollars towards the repair, but since I did the last oil change myself and used Mobile 1 5w30 full synthetic and didn't use "Mini Oil' they could not do anything else. I contacted Mini customer service myself and they are going to do some "Research" and get back to me in a day or so. Has anyone else had this type of issue?
#2
11-03-2012, 04:07 AM
I would call mini your self, as you have done. Hopefully the different oil did not really cause it. The manual does say to use 0w40 if using a Mobil One but it had to be a machanical failure... If mini does not step up I'd be pissed. Contact Way at Waymotorworks then as he'll treat you fair.
#3
11-03-2012, 08:02 AM
#4
11-03-2012, 08:19 AM
There's been repeated warnings across the board with "mandated" oil change intervals being too long... and unfortunately, you're another owner affected.
BMW / MINI Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:
- Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
- Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
- Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
- Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30
Make sure to DOCUMENT everything in terms of you contacts, your statements, who you spoke with, etc, etc.
That will help you land a larger leverage if MINI isn't willing to play ball.
- Erik
#5
11-03-2012, 09:13 AM
As for oil types, you you use what ever MEETS or EXCEEDS the standard. Just because a company didn't pay MINI to put their oil on a list does not mean it doesn't exceed the standard and it would be on MINI to prove what type of oil was put in the car, a feat that would be pretty difficult.
Timing chain grenaded that engine, simple enough. I would try to see if they will help, but don't hold your breath. If they don't, you can get it done cheaper at an independent.
#6
11-03-2012, 09:32 AM
#7
11-03-2012, 09:33 AM
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#8
11-03-2012, 06:08 PM
Complete bollocks and this has been proven wrong over and over. If you are unsure, pull a sample yourself and send it to Blackstone labs don't spread fud. At 15K oil has come back with considerable life left in it as proven on numerous occasions. What generally happens is that people think that because it is 15K oil change, they don't have to check their oil and replenish it.
#9
11-03-2012, 07:44 PM
As others have suggested, I'd probably try to find a different source to get the work done or inquire about an engine replacement.
#11
11-04-2012, 04:54 AM
The problem is the viscosity of the Mobil1 5W30 is too low and probably resulted in some additional wear. As indicated, the proper weight for Mobil1 is 0W40. Because they come from different manufacturers, you cannot (should not) assume one company's 5W30 is the same as another company's 5W30 (though the world would be a lot simpler if that were the case).
As others have suggested, I'd probably try to find a different source to get the work done or inquire about an engine replacement.
As others have suggested, I'd probably try to find a different source to get the work done or inquire about an engine replacement.
As for the second comment, yes, you can. Those numbers are scientific standards and the oils are tested to meet those standards. If you slap a number on your product and it doesn't meet that standard, you can and would be sued as you would be destroying someones property. 5w-30 means that it is a 30 weight capable of maintaining its viscosity down to -30 C.
#12
11-04-2012, 06:03 AM
Replenishing your oil in that period before an oil analysis not only replenishes the capacity but to enough of a degree replenishes viscosity and dilutes actual contaminent content altering the element content and skewing any test results of the spectral exam.
#13
11-04-2012, 06:05 AM
#14
11-04-2012, 06:23 AM
While I also have read where folks run 15K miles and then have their oil tested...I don't think I've ever met a MINI not needing "topping off" or replenishing between 15K oil changes, especially the French engines.
Replenishing your oil in that period before an oil analysis not only replenishes the capacity but to enough of a degree replenishes viscosity and dilutes actual contaminent content altering the element content and skewing any test results of the spectral exam.
Replenishing your oil in that period before an oil analysis not only replenishes the capacity but to enough of a degree replenishes viscosity and dilutes actual contaminent content altering the element content and skewing any test results of the spectral exam.
So you are saying that an engineer that designed a car to do 15K on an oil change:
1. Did not plan for the filter?
2. Did not plan for a +- margin of error?
Sorry Dave, but I am not buying it and unless you tested a used filter for flow and then cut it and put it under an electron microscope to see if it is failing, I don't see how you can make that comment. It is much like saying "my oil needs to be changed because it is dark".
#15
11-04-2012, 01:08 PM
As for the second comment, yes, you can. Those numbers are scientific standards and the oils are tested to meet those standards. If you slap a number on your product and it doesn't meet that standard, you can and would be sued as you would be destroying someones property. 5w-30 means that it is a 30 weight capable of maintaining its viscosity down to -30 C.
I'm not aware of the primary viscosity having anything to do with how cold it can get and maintain viscosity. Viscosity is measured (generally) at 212F.
#16
11-04-2012, 01:25 PM
Sorry, but they are not scientific standards. They are merely marketing indicators to help guide consumers. While based on scientific standards, there is enough variation that the numbers may not be the same between manufacturers. Thus we have the situation with MINI where several different grades are recommended depending on the manufacturer.
Really?
http://standards.sae.org/j300_200901/
Considering there is an entire organization around it I would think that they are, in fact, standards.
and viscosity is measured at 100C (which is approx. 212F) to which the flow rate is measured. The "variation" that you speak of are considered acceptable margins.
Feel free to read up on it a little more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society...tive_Engineers
This is a nicely written article.
http://mysite.verizon.net/oldhokie/windyridge/oil.pdf
This alone tells me that you don't know what you are talking about. The "5w or 0w" is known as the winter rating. It was introduced due to engines seizing during cold weather starts. That number indicates how cold the oil can get before it starts to lose its base viscosity (it will start to thicken). As I said, please read up on it
Last edited by daflake; 11-04-2012 at 01:34 PM.
#19
11-04-2012, 03:32 PM
I have had it tested BEFORE it was "altered" and it was fine and I have seen similar reports. Also, it is the oil that really burns off, not the contaminants (metal etc...) so replenishing the oil is not really going to skew the results all that much. Even if it did, you made my point that keeping the car topped off is important as it would prolong the life of the oil. I know many of my German friends go the distance on that French engine and the only issues that I have seen were caused by someone failing to keep it filled.
So you are saying that an engineer that designed a car to do 15K on an oil change:
1. Did not plan for the filter?
2. Did not plan for a +- margin of error?
So you are saying that an engineer that designed a car to do 15K on an oil change:
1. Did not plan for the filter?
2. Did not plan for a +- margin of error?
#20
11-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Then again, what do I know....
#22
11-04-2012, 06:01 PM
Really?
http://standards.sae.org/j300_200901/
Considering there is an entire organization around it I would think that they are, in fact, standards.
http://standards.sae.org/j300_200901/
Considering there is an entire organization around it I would think that they are, in fact, standards.
and viscosity is measured at 100C (which is approx. 212F) to which the flow rate is measured. The "variation" that you speak of are considered acceptable margins.
This alone tells me that you don't know what you are talking about. The "5w or 0w" is known as the winter rating. It was introduced due to engines seizing during cold weather starts. That number indicates how cold the oil can get before it starts to lose its base viscosity (it will start to thicken).
I never referred to the "W" rating part in my last post, so I'm not sure how you conclude that I don't know what I'm talking about.
To come back to the OP, he indicated he was using Mobil1 5W30. However, the "correct" oil per MINI is Mobil1 0W40. That is the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation, which should be followed unless someone has a specific need and understands what they are selecting in the alternative.
I am proposing at least part of MINI's recommendation is based on the actual viscosity of the oil (not the marketing label) for the application - use in the MINI engine during normal operation. Per Dr. Haas' article on FerrariChat (one of my preferred resources regarding oil topics), the viscosity of the following oils are similar and fall within his recommendations for a 40 grade motor oil:
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
I note that three of those oils correspond to MINI's recommended list* (the Castol, Mobil1 and Penn). Note his comment about the Castrol 30 grade being thick, almost a 40 grade oil. That is based on the actual viscosity for an application, not the label (which he suggests should not be relied upon).
* - Pennzoil has changed their recommendation for MINI to 5W40 (this one actually carries the BMW LL01 certification) - MINI continues to list 5W30 (iirc) despite Pennzoil indicating that is no longer the correct oil.
The OP also indicates the API rating exceeded MINI's minimum and was an extended performance formulation. I would suggest it is more important to pay attention to the ACEA A3/B3 certification and if looking for something with extended protection, to get something that meets BMW's LL01 requirements.
Thus, even MINI in their recommendations does not go down the line recommending 5W30 oils from all manufacturers. There is variation in the actual viscosity of the oils and the formulations. As I indicated, one should not just assume that one oil company's 5W30 is the same as another oil company's 5W30.
fwiw, if you respond, I would appreciate it if you would not engage in the ad hominems.
#23
11-04-2012, 06:26 PM
Like I said, they(the labels on oil cans) are based on scientific standards. But the labeling on an oil can is not set forth by the SAE. Even your link provides 6 different versions of J300. Depending on which one is selected by the oil manufacturer, the labeling may be different. Thus, one manufacturer's oil may be tested as 40 weight but selection of a different version of J300 and the variation permitted by the standards could result in another manufacturer ending up with a 30 weight even though the viscosity is very close to being the same.
I thought your earlier post said the labeling indicated the oil would maintain its viscosity down to a certain temperature. Now you are saying the viscosity is actually a measure of flow rate taken at a set temperature (same thing I said). So apparently we agree on that.
The W is just a designation. It does not indicate how cold the oil can get before it starts to lose its base viscosity. It indicates the oil meets the J300 standard at a low temp (0 F I believe). But yes, it is most commonly referred to as the "winter" rating.
I never referred to the "W" rating part in my last post, so I'm not sure how you conclude that I don't know what I'm talking about.
To come back to the OP, he indicated he was using Mobil1 5W30. However, the "correct" oil per MINI is Mobil1 0W40. That is the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation, which should be followed unless someone has a specific need and understands what they are selecting in the alternative.
I am proposing at least part of MINI's recommendation is based on the actual viscosity of the oil (not the marketing label) for the application - use in the MINI engine during normal operation. Per Dr. Haas' article on FerrariChat (one of my preferred resources regarding oil topics), the viscosity of the following oils are similar and fall within his recommendations for a 40 grade motor oil:
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
I note that three of those oils correspond to MINI's recommended list* (the Castol, Mobil1 and Penn). Note his comment about the Castrol 30 grade being thick, almost a 40 grade oil. That is based on the actual viscosity for an application, not the label (which he suggests should not be relied upon).
* - Pennzoil has changed their recommendation for MINI to 5W40 (this one actually carries the BMW LL01 certification) - MINI continues to list 5W30 (iirc) despite Pennzoil indicating that is no longer the correct oil.
The OP also indicates the API rating exceeded MINI's minimum and was an extended performance formulation. I would suggest it is more important to pay attention to the ACEA A3/B3 certification and if looking for something with extended protection, to get something that meets BMW's LL01 requirements.
Thus, even MINI in their recommendations does not go down the line recommending 5W30 oils from all manufacturers. There is variation in the actual viscosity of the oils and the formulations. As I indicated, one should not just assume that one oil company's 5W30 is the same as another oil company's 5W30.
fwiw, if you respond, I would appreciate it if you would not engage in the ad hominems.
I thought your earlier post said the labeling indicated the oil would maintain its viscosity down to a certain temperature. Now you are saying the viscosity is actually a measure of flow rate taken at a set temperature (same thing I said). So apparently we agree on that.
The W is just a designation. It does not indicate how cold the oil can get before it starts to lose its base viscosity. It indicates the oil meets the J300 standard at a low temp (0 F I believe). But yes, it is most commonly referred to as the "winter" rating.
I never referred to the "W" rating part in my last post, so I'm not sure how you conclude that I don't know what I'm talking about.
To come back to the OP, he indicated he was using Mobil1 5W30. However, the "correct" oil per MINI is Mobil1 0W40. That is the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation, which should be followed unless someone has a specific need and understands what they are selecting in the alternative.
I am proposing at least part of MINI's recommendation is based on the actual viscosity of the oil (not the marketing label) for the application - use in the MINI engine during normal operation. Per Dr. Haas' article on FerrariChat (one of my preferred resources regarding oil topics), the viscosity of the following oils are similar and fall within his recommendations for a 40 grade motor oil:
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
I note that three of those oils correspond to MINI's recommended list* (the Castol, Mobil1 and Penn). Note his comment about the Castrol 30 grade being thick, almost a 40 grade oil. That is based on the actual viscosity for an application, not the label (which he suggests should not be relied upon).
* - Pennzoil has changed their recommendation for MINI to 5W40 (this one actually carries the BMW LL01 certification) - MINI continues to list 5W30 (iirc) despite Pennzoil indicating that is no longer the correct oil.
The OP also indicates the API rating exceeded MINI's minimum and was an extended performance formulation. I would suggest it is more important to pay attention to the ACEA A3/B3 certification and if looking for something with extended protection, to get something that meets BMW's LL01 requirements.
Thus, even MINI in their recommendations does not go down the line recommending 5W30 oils from all manufacturers. There is variation in the actual viscosity of the oils and the formulations. As I indicated, one should not just assume that one oil company's 5W30 is the same as another oil company's 5W30.
fwiw, if you respond, I would appreciate it if you would not engage in the ad hominems.
Last edited by daflake; 11-04-2012 at 06:51 PM.
#24
11-04-2012, 07:50 PM
Like I said, they(the labels on oil cans) are based on scientific standards. But the labeling on an oil can is not set forth by the SAE. Even your link provides 6 different versions of J300. Depending on which one is selected by the oil manufacturer, the labeling may be different. Thus, one manufacturer's oil may be tested as 40 weight but selection of a different version of J300 and the variation permitted by the standards could result in another manufacturer ending up with a 30 weight even though the viscosity is very close to being the same.
I thought your earlier post said the labeling indicated the oil would maintain its viscosity down to a certain temperature. Now you are saying the viscosity is actually a measure of flow rate taken at a set temperature (same thing I said). So apparently we agree on that.
The W is just a designation. It does not indicate how cold the oil can get before it starts to lose its base viscosity. It indicates the oil meets the J300 standard at a low temp (0 F I believe). But yes, it is most commonly referred to as the "winter" rating.
I never referred to the "W" rating part in my last post, so I'm not sure how you conclude that I don't know what I'm talking about.
To come back to the OP, he indicated he was using Mobil1 5W30. However, the "correct" oil per MINI is Mobil1 0W40. That is the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation, which should be followed unless someone has a specific need and understands what they are selecting in the alternative.
I am proposing at least part of MINI's recommendation is based on the actual viscosity of the oil (not the marketing label) for the application - use in the MINI engine during normal operation. Per Dr. Haas' article on FerrariChat (one of my preferred resources regarding oil topics), the viscosity of the following oils are similar and fall within his recommendations for a 40 grade motor oil:
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
I note that three of those oils correspond to MINI's recommended list* (the Castol, Mobil1 and Penn). Note his comment about the Castrol 30 grade being thick, almost a 40 grade oil. That is based on the actual viscosity for an application, not the label (which he suggests should not be relied upon).
* - Pennzoil has changed their recommendation for MINI to 5W40 (this one actually carries the BMW LL01 certification) - MINI continues to list 5W30 (iirc) despite Pennzoil indicating that is no longer the correct oil.
The OP also indicates the API rating exceeded MINI's minimum and was an extended performance formulation. I would suggest it is more important to pay attention to the ACEA A3/B3 certification and if looking for something with extended protection, to get something that meets BMW's LL01 requirements.
Thus, even MINI in their recommendations does not go down the line recommending 5W30 oils from all manufacturers. There is variation in the actual viscosity of the oils and the formulations. As I indicated, one should not just assume that one oil company's 5W30 is the same as another oil company's 5W30.
fwiw, if you respond, I would appreciate it if you would not engage in the ad hominems.
I thought your earlier post said the labeling indicated the oil would maintain its viscosity down to a certain temperature. Now you are saying the viscosity is actually a measure of flow rate taken at a set temperature (same thing I said). So apparently we agree on that.
The W is just a designation. It does not indicate how cold the oil can get before it starts to lose its base viscosity. It indicates the oil meets the J300 standard at a low temp (0 F I believe). But yes, it is most commonly referred to as the "winter" rating.
I never referred to the "W" rating part in my last post, so I'm not sure how you conclude that I don't know what I'm talking about.
To come back to the OP, he indicated he was using Mobil1 5W30. However, the "correct" oil per MINI is Mobil1 0W40. That is the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation, which should be followed unless someone has a specific need and understands what they are selecting in the alternative.
I am proposing at least part of MINI's recommendation is based on the actual viscosity of the oil (not the marketing label) for the application - use in the MINI engine during normal operation. Per Dr. Haas' article on FerrariChat (one of my preferred resources regarding oil topics), the viscosity of the following oils are similar and fall within his recommendations for a 40 grade motor oil:
40 Grade:
Amsoil 0W-40
Castrol European Formula 0W-30 (a thicker 30 grade oil, almost a 40 grade oil)*
Mobil One 0W-40
Penn Ultra Synthetic 5W-40
Renewable Lubricants Inc. 5W-40*
I note that three of those oils correspond to MINI's recommended list* (the Castol, Mobil1 and Penn). Note his comment about the Castrol 30 grade being thick, almost a 40 grade oil. That is based on the actual viscosity for an application, not the label (which he suggests should not be relied upon).
* - Pennzoil has changed their recommendation for MINI to 5W40 (this one actually carries the BMW LL01 certification) - MINI continues to list 5W30 (iirc) despite Pennzoil indicating that is no longer the correct oil.
The OP also indicates the API rating exceeded MINI's minimum and was an extended performance formulation. I would suggest it is more important to pay attention to the ACEA A3/B3 certification and if looking for something with extended protection, to get something that meets BMW's LL01 requirements.
Thus, even MINI in their recommendations does not go down the line recommending 5W30 oils from all manufacturers. There is variation in the actual viscosity of the oils and the formulations. As I indicated, one should not just assume that one oil company's 5W30 is the same as another oil company's 5W30.
fwiw, if you respond, I would appreciate it if you would not engage in the ad hominems.
My understanding of the oil designation was that 5W30 is a 5 weight oil (5W) that has the same viscosity as a 30 weight when at operating temperature.
This improves cold starting and allows you to drive off before the engine is warm without doing damage to it, as the oil is able to flow through the engine.
I imagine that the viscosity transitions from the 5W to the 30W can be different, but at operating temperature, the viscosity should be nearly identical.
#25
11-04-2012, 08:17 PM
In the '08 owner's manual, 5w-30 is approved for use and M1 EP meets the API SM spec (page 104):
http://www.minimania.com/pdfile/2009_MINI_Hardtop.pdf
I use M1 5w-30 EP in my 1st gen Cooper - had it tested by Blackstone after 15k miles and it came back fine. They recommended sticking with 15k miles drain/fill intervals. The 1st gen engine is obviously different, but the point is, I don't think your oil could have been bad enough to cause the problems you have.