R56 PCV delete. Possible Isues resulting....
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 668
Likes: 4
I'm going to assume you are saying these things to inform everyone else, and not just telling me things I already know. Again back to the PVC rear block off. As long as the front is able to equalize pressure what would be the problem?
Oh hey Dave, I just reread your posts. It seems like we are agreeing an saying that it must be somthing else beside the rear blocked of PVC port causing the issue.
Oh hey Dave, I just reread your posts. It seems like we are agreeing an saying that it must be somthing else beside the rear blocked of PVC port causing the issue.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 835
Likes: 5
From: Atlanta, GA
I checked with a master mechanic and he recommended loosening the oil fill cap with the engine idling and see if the cap tries to push off or suck down. I have my rear PVC on my 2009 MCS R57 blocked with the plugs that I got from Audi. I found that the oil fill cap was pulled down indicating that the crankcase was negative at idle which I'm guessing should be the worst case.
At higher RPM I would expect the turbo suction to go more negative as the turbo spools up. We also know that the rear PVC port closes off anyway as the turbo pressurizes the intake manifold.
It was weird - if I took the oil fill cap completely off "puffing" was noticed and my first impression was that the crankcase was under positive pressure. As you put the cap back on it sucks down as it gets close to its seat. I guess there is an averaging effect as two pistons go up and two go down and the location of the oil fill cap area is more affected by one than the other. Just a guess.
In any event, I am running with rear PCV port blocked and will keep an eye on things. I just walnut blasted my intake valves myself (for less than $70!! - will be separate post) to remove heavy carbon deposits after only 33,000 miles. I also installed BSH catch can on turbo suction PCV line.
At higher RPM I would expect the turbo suction to go more negative as the turbo spools up. We also know that the rear PVC port closes off anyway as the turbo pressurizes the intake manifold.
It was weird - if I took the oil fill cap completely off "puffing" was noticed and my first impression was that the crankcase was under positive pressure. As you put the cap back on it sucks down as it gets close to its seat. I guess there is an averaging effect as two pistons go up and two go down and the location of the oil fill cap area is more affected by one than the other. Just a guess.
In any event, I am running with rear PCV port blocked and will keep an eye on things. I just walnut blasted my intake valves myself (for less than $70!! - will be separate post) to remove heavy carbon deposits after only 33,000 miles. I also installed BSH catch can on turbo suction PCV line.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 668
Likes: 4
I checked with a master mechanic and he recommended loosening the oil fill cap with the engine idling and see if the cap tries to push off or suck down. I have my rear PVC on my 2009 MCS R57 blocked with the plugs that I got from Audi. I found that the oil fill cap was pulled down indicating that the crankcase was negative at idle which I'm guessing should be the worst case.
At higher RPM I would expect the turbo suction to go more negative as the turbo spools up. We also know that the rear PVC port closes off anyway as the turbo pressurizes the intake manifold.
It was weird - if I took the oil fill cap completely off "puffing" was noticed and my first impression was that the crankcase was under positive pressure. As you put the cap back on it sucks down as it gets close to its seat. I guess there is an averaging effect as two pistons go up and two go down and the location of the oil fill cap area is more affected by one than the other. Just a guess.
In any event, I am running with rear PCV port blocked and will keep an eye on things. I just walnut blasted my intake valves myself (for less than $70!! - will be separate post) to remove heavy carbon deposits after only 33,000 miles. I also installed BSH catch can on turbo suction PCV line.
At higher RPM I would expect the turbo suction to go more negative as the turbo spools up. We also know that the rear PVC port closes off anyway as the turbo pressurizes the intake manifold.
It was weird - if I took the oil fill cap completely off "puffing" was noticed and my first impression was that the crankcase was under positive pressure. As you put the cap back on it sucks down as it gets close to its seat. I guess there is an averaging effect as two pistons go up and two go down and the location of the oil fill cap area is more affected by one than the other. Just a guess.
In any event, I am running with rear PCV port blocked and will keep an eye on things. I just walnut blasted my intake valves myself (for less than $70!! - will be separate post) to remove heavy carbon deposits after only 33,000 miles. I also installed BSH catch can on turbo suction PCV line.
All the PVC info you need.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 835
Likes: 5
From: Atlanta, GA
Guilty as charged!! I work with PVC schedule 80 piping in chemical piping designs every day and can't help myself!! I could blame it on autocorrect - but we'd both know that's not the case.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 835
Likes: 5
From: Atlanta, GA
I am convinced that blocking the rear PCV ( there- I did it!) ports is not changing crankcase pressure.
I do note a slight scent of oil fumes (same smell you get when you open oil fill cap to add oil) upon shutdown when I park in the garage. I saw another post here somewhere with others mentioning this. It is not a problem but I am curious as this only started after I blocked the ports.
I do note a slight scent of oil fumes (same smell you get when you open oil fill cap to add oil) upon shutdown when I park in the garage. I saw another post here somewhere with others mentioning this. It is not a problem but I am curious as this only started after I blocked the ports.
8 months back I performed the PCV delete and a catch can. Everything seemed good although I seemed to be using more oil. I then installed a turbo back catless exhaust a few months later. Shortly after installing the exhaust I started noticing that when the car was at idle for more than 20 seconds or so blue smoke (oil smoke) would come from the tail pipe, just a bit at first but after 45 seconds or so I had a nice cloud coming from my car. It never ran different just smoke. I then started looking up possible causes for this. I found that the turbo shaft seals on these and all cars are only designed for holding air pressure out of the oil passage not oil in the turbo so to speak. The turbo oil feed and exit are sealed in the crank case. If there is any pressure in the crank case exceeding the pressure in the exhaust or compressor side oil will leak. I then reinstalled the PCV tube on the intake side with a catch can on both. The smoke in the exhaust was gone completely and oil consumption went back to where it was before the PCV delete. It appeared that the CAT converter was stripping/burning off the extra oil thus no smoke. I know the idea of eliminating the PCV (oil in the intake) sounds like a good idea but I think it is causing more problems long term to other parts. My theory is that the PCV valves in the cover have a cracking pressure of .5 PSI according to the bently manual which would be higher pressure than the pressure in the exhaust/intake creating a leak.
Below is a link to where I obtained my limited turbo knowledge. It was a very good read and left me with a lot better understanding of turbos. I also would note that there was a significant amount of oil residue in the compressor side with the PCV delete that all but went away when I reinstalled the intake PCV tube. Keep in mind that when the PCV is hooked up as manufactured the crank case is held between -8 psi to -10 psi below ambient. Just think of it this way... deleting the PCV has changed a vacuum of -10psi to pressure of +.5 psi. I also forgot to mention that when the engine was above idle I.E. while driving the smoke was gone.
http://www.procharge.com.au/turbotor...he-turbo-blues
I'm not sure if this is how I am supposed to display a link... sorry if its incorrect.
By the way this is my first post so go easy on my please.
Below is a link to where I obtained my limited turbo knowledge. It was a very good read and left me with a lot better understanding of turbos. I also would note that there was a significant amount of oil residue in the compressor side with the PCV delete that all but went away when I reinstalled the intake PCV tube. Keep in mind that when the PCV is hooked up as manufactured the crank case is held between -8 psi to -10 psi below ambient. Just think of it this way... deleting the PCV has changed a vacuum of -10psi to pressure of +.5 psi. I also forgot to mention that when the engine was above idle I.E. while driving the smoke was gone.
http://www.procharge.com.au/turbotor...he-turbo-blues
I'm not sure if this is how I am supposed to display a link... sorry if its incorrect.
By the way this is my first post so go easy on my please.
Main bearing ( crank pulley ) seals
Crank sensor seals.
Valve cover gaskets + Plug rings.
Oil pan gaskets....
The PCV valves ( Positive Crankcase Ventilation ) are not on the planned maintenance systems of the 1st Generation. End results are seal and gasket failure.
Engines need to vent to equalize pressure.
I change the PCV valve every 30K.....
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 194
Likes: 2
From: Simi Valley, CA
I am convinced that blocking the rear PCV ( there- I did it!) ports is not changing crankcase pressure.
I do note a slight scent of oil fumes (same smell you get when you open oil fill cap to add oil) upon shutdown when I park in the garage. I saw another post here somewhere with others mentioning this. It is not a problem but I am curious as this only started after I blocked the ports.
I do note a slight scent of oil fumes (same smell you get when you open oil fill cap to add oil) upon shutdown when I park in the garage. I saw another post here somewhere with others mentioning this. It is not a problem but I am curious as this only started after I blocked the ports.
It's the same smell that I notice when pulling the dipstick out of the BSH OCC....I figure that the O-Ring on the dipstick is marginal on its seal when it gets hot. However I have not used one drop of oil in 4K miles....but I've pulled a good quart of water out of the OCC over the last four months!
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Is the diaphragm under the valve cover replaceable? I'm getting some residue along the edges of my valve cover where it meets the head so was planning on replacing the gaskets. However it seems like there might be an underlying cause for it to do that. Its an 09 with 73k miles.
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: England
I'm using the pcv delete method. The car uses no oil between services but I'm getting a oil smell coming into the car. This has got a lot worse after I recently installed a Dump Valve. Think I'm going to fit a dual oil catch can as the smell is so bad I can smell oil on my clothes after I get out of the car.
Tab
Tab
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio
just curious if everyone is still running the pcv delete plugs. Seen several for sale on here.
New to the mini game. Looking at things to help engine run better, preventative maintenance. Is this still recommended? Best to do with oil catch cans? And if so, where do you place them? I've seen posts for different spots.
New to the mini game. Looking at things to help engine run better, preventative maintenance. Is this still recommended? Best to do with oil catch cans? And if so, where do you place them? I've seen posts for different spots.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Washington 360
I run the cap on the intake it self and then just run a hose under my car for the actual pcv out on the valve cover. i do this on both sides. the air filter tube that goes into the turbo i just used a expandable plug to plug it. if you want to run a catch can most people do it on the driver side pcv and then plug the passenger side pcv with the caps. you can get the caps through the dealer for ten bucks a piece.
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
so the general consensus is improper PCV function was the main issue of the OP's problem?
Also, when deleting both passenger and driver's pcv tubes, run a vent to bottom of vehicle for each side? or run a vent from drivers side to bottom of vehicle (plug turbo intake hole) and cap both passenger PCV ports?
Also, when deleting both passenger and driver's pcv tubes, run a vent to bottom of vehicle for each side? or run a vent from drivers side to bottom of vehicle (plug turbo intake hole) and cap both passenger PCV ports?
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: England
I did the pvc delete a while ago now 9 - 12 months agao. I've been using an oil catch can for 4-5 months now that connects between the turbo intake & engine vent (right side looking at the car). It mostly collects moisture with a small amount of oil. The mixture smells really bad (very strong oil smell) when I drain it about once per month. I've not had any bad smells in the car since using the oil catch can. The car is at 45k miles now, with no associated coking or bad running. I guess time will tell.
Tab
Tab
just curious if everyone is still running the pcv delete plugs. Seen several for sale on here.
New to the mini game. Looking at things to help engine run better, preventative maintenance. Is this still recommended? Best to do with oil catch cans? And if so, where do you place them? I've seen posts for different spots.
New to the mini game. Looking at things to help engine run better, preventative maintenance. Is this still recommended? Best to do with oil catch cans? And if so, where do you place them? I've seen posts for different spots.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio
I did the pvc delete a while ago now 9 - 12 months agao. I've been using an oil catch can for 4-5 months now that connects between the turbo intake & engine vent (right side looking at the car). It mostly collects moisture with a small amount of oil. The mixture smells really bad (very strong oil smell) when I drain it about once per month. I've not had any bad smells in the car since using the oil catch can. The car is at 45k miles now, with no associated coking or bad running. I guess time will tell.
Tab
Tab
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: England
You know the old saying, Prevention is better than the cure. Stitch in time saves nine etc.
Well the mod cost about £3 for the blanks (if you go to a Peugeot Dealer) and the catch can cost me about £15 off fleabay. It did not come fitted with a metal gauze separator, so had to make my own from an old cafeteria.
Tab
Well the mod cost about £3 for the blanks (if you go to a Peugeot Dealer) and the catch can cost me about £15 off fleabay. It did not come fitted with a metal gauze separator, so had to make my own from an old cafeteria.
Tab
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio
You know the old saying, Prevention is better than the cure. Stitch in time saves nine etc.
Well the mod cost about £3 for the blanks (if you go to a Peugeot Dealer) and the catch can cost me about £15 off fleabay. It did not come fitted with a metal gauze separator, so had to make my own from an old cafeteria.
Tab
Well the mod cost about £3 for the blanks (if you go to a Peugeot Dealer) and the catch can cost me about £15 off fleabay. It did not come fitted with a metal gauze separator, so had to make my own from an old cafeteria.
Tab
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Washington 360
so the general consensus is improper PCV function was the main issue of the OP's problem?
Also, when deleting both passenger and driver's pcv tubes, run a vent to bottom of vehicle for each side? or run a vent from drivers side to bottom of vehicle (plug turbo intake hole) and cap both passenger PCV ports?
Also, when deleting both passenger and driver's pcv tubes, run a vent to bottom of vehicle for each side? or run a vent from drivers side to bottom of vehicle (plug turbo intake hole) and cap both passenger PCV ports?
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio
i ran a vent underneath my car on both sides. You can plug the passenger side if you want to but i felt it would be better to let it breath so it did not build pressure. There are a lot of people who say that it doesnt matter but i figured why not, its not like its any harder to do.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 781
Likes: 3
From: Omaha, NE
Draft tubes are super old tech from the days of carbureted motors. I see no actual problem running that type of setup on the car, BUT it is illegal. Remember, the EPA and such regulators are the reason we have silly things like PCV systems and direct injection and charcoal canisters and all the other fun emission things we have on modern cars anymore.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 8
From: Philly PA
Draft tubes are super old tech from the days of carbureted motors. I see no actual problem running that type of setup on the car, BUT it is illegal. Remember, the EPA and such regulators are the reason we have silly things like PCV systems and direct injection and charcoal canisters and all the other fun emission things we have on modern cars anymore.
Not an issue with race engines that get rebuilt after each race... But a real issue with cars that are DD..
Direct injection is not an EPA rule, it gives more power/fuel Econ than port injection.. People tend to like that.
Charcoal canisters are harmless, and only "do anything" when a car is turned off..
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
i ran a vent underneath my car on both sides. you can plug the passenger side if you want to but i felt it would be better to let it breath so it did not build pressure. there are a lot of people who say that it doesnt matter but i figured why not, its not like its any harder to do.