Here's the deal, I have had 3 BMWs and a lot of Japanese cars, including a current 2011 Toyota Highlander (as the family hauler).

I am almost 40 and considering (if I have a good year financially) of treating myself and buying a 2012/2013 Mini Cooper S hatchback, with plans as a third/weekend car, to put 7-10k miles a year, and keeping it for the long haul.

I can tolerate some reliability issues for the performance/fun tradeoff, as I have done with BMW in the past.

Here is the latest Consumer Reports data:

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Used Cars, Problems per 100 cars
2007 Mini Cooper S (Year 1, 9 problems, Year 5, 113 problems). CR's conclusion is this car is aging badly.

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Worst of the worst for reliabiliity, "much worse than average reliability among 2002-2011 models"

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"Used cars to avoid"

Mini Cooper Hatchback S, 03, 05-09

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The Mini Cooper, non-S version is actually recommended by CR

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Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is the reliability data from 2006 to 2011.

Mini Cooper Hatchback S

Engine Major: 2006 "better/good"; 2007-2009 "much worse than avg", 2010 "better than average" and 2011 "better/good"

There seems to be a similar trend in most categories, , i.e. marked improvement in reliability starting in 2010, with below average reliability for 2007-2009, except for fuel system, which is "much worse than avg" from 2007 through 2011.

***************************

This is encouraging to me, as reliability seems markedly better beginning in 2010. Why?

1)Was this the refresh year, with a new engine?

2)Is this partially due to redesign of PCV and less chance of carbon foul up, more reliable turbo, etc?

3)Is the fuel system problem limited to the fuel pump, which has been a problem in my 335 and is well known...now the fuel pump warranties are extended by BMW and longer?

4)Overall, based on your experiences, do you think this reliability trend seems to track your ownership, i.e. what has changed from 2007-2009 versus beginning in 2010, a redesign?

Thanks for your anticipated replies, and I hope I have provided you with some useful data if you didn't already have it...any questions ask away, the March 6, 2012 issue is on my desk.

 

I owned an 08 and my currenty one 11. I never had any issues with either engines and cars. I am one who regularly maintains my car and stay on top of changing out fluids and oils before its recommended. I know there are the known issues with the car depending on what year and generation your talking about.

My experience with these cars is the people who do not maintain them or take care of them do have horrible problems and then the car becomes a money pit. Theres tons of people on here that have had multiple minis and never had an issue with any of them.

I do like the N18 engine though, seems to be well built and love the little HP gain. Best of luck this year and hopefully you can join the fun/family.

 

I can't speak for the 2nd gen cars, but since CR has panned the 1st Gen as used cars to avoid, all I can say is that CR record for reliability ratings has been quite off of my personal experiences. There are 3 1st gen Coopers in my family. My 2006 has been very reliable. Sure I had a couple of minor issues that were covered under warranty, and I've had one small issue after my warranty. My dad has a 2006 MC and it has likewise been rock solid. My niece has a 2003 MC and it has been reliable.

1999, we purchased a 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible. CR reported worse than average reliability with this car. It was the most reliable car I ever owned. Had it for 11 years and only had to change brakes, oil, tires and a battery. No other issues, none!

My dad owned a 1994 VW Passat that CR said was unreliable. he kept that car for 10 years and never had any issues.

One of the big car magazines did an article about vehicle reliability, where it talked about how far car makers as a whole have come in the last two decades. A car that is deemed worse than average now may have been considered very reliable 20 years ago, because the average has improved so much!

Take that for what it's worth. I'll step off my soapbox!

 

and don't get me wrong, I am not saying CR is the end all be all of reliability data...you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

But the fact that CR rates "major engine" as much worse than average for 2007-2009 is a little troubling.

The problem is of course CR doesn't state what major engine problems actually are...

Were there big changes beginning in 2010/2011 engine wise? These recent years seem pretty solid.

 

I thought the downgrade to not recommended was a result of the death rattle issue.

 

Reports of Problems will increase as the cars age. This very likely could result in downgrades in reliability.

If I were you, I would absolutely have no problems buying a Mini.

 

I do believe that there was some issues with the timing chain tensioner.

 

I am another whom regualarily services my 07 MCS. I have had only 2 issues with it, the thermostat leaked and the timing chain issue.
Car runs like a top, doesn't eat oil, and is just an overall blast to drive.
I don't beat it but once a week I like to get a little spirited on the back roads to keep it blown out.
I change oil every 6K miles with Mobil 1 0/40w europeon formula.

Sure, as a car gets older it's going to endure some issues but I believe those are lessened if the car has been maintained properly over the miles and years.

 

I'm a newer owner of a used '04 Cooper S...and (so far), my experience has been that the negative feedback is highly disproportionate to those Mini owners that have the opposite experience. It's hard to quantify the FUN factor you'll have driving a Mini. I'm pretty picky about my cars from a reliability standpoint (a long time Toyota & Honda owner), so I was a little uncertain about what I was getting myself into. So far...so good...and SO MUCH FUN. Great MPGs too. If you're buying new or "newer", get a warranty for piece of mind. (I didn't have that option.)

 

Pilotman:

First off, thanks for sharing this info. I would love to see more regarding the MINIs. Perhaps you can scan and share?

Next, if I were in the market, I would wait for the 3rd gen to come before you make your decision. Not to say that the 2nd gen is bad, but I always love the latest technology, style and feature set. I wouldn't expect the 3rd gen to be revolutionary, but I am sure it will be more refined and the best MINI yet. Purists will disagree, of course. But then, sometimes they seem like automotive evolution Luddites to me. Expect much anecdotal evidence of reliability and unreliability alike with the questions you posed.

And to try to answer your questions:

1. As far as I know, the 2010 was not a new engine refresh. I believe that was the 2011 that got updated engine management, i.e. new engine management software, Valvetronic and as a result, more horsepower. This is in addition to the mild exterior and interior refresh. Refer to MotoringFile's review of the 2011 for more insight. The guys at MF are so helpful!

2. Possibly. I don't know enough.

3. What fuel system problem are you talking about?

4. I think the 2010's engines only got minor upgrades and there weren't any redesigns or refreshments of engine.

Finally, personal account of my 2010. I have only experienced rattles on the inside of my car which drive me nuts most of the time, but other than that, I've not had a single problem. Now that I said that, I'm sure something bad will happen to my car tonight!

Hope this helps a bit!

-Chris

 

Pilotman, You've done your research and you found that our MINIs are not the most reliable cars. Considering what you have previously owned, I think you would get a great deal of enjoyment out of owning a MINI. And I suspect you could afford it.

Some MINI owners get bent when they see negative comments about our beloved MINIs. In the case of Consumer Reports, they are merely reporting the results of their annual surveys sent to subscribers. These numbers are not based on whatever opinion CR may have of a car.

CR received a positive report on my survey as I have not had a single problem with my 2010. Now, my 2002 Tacoma is a different story. Having bought it new, it has developed a rattle in the dash and last year I had to replace the spark plugs. So Toyotas are not perfect either.

Would I buy another MINI? You betcha, it's the most fun car I've owned in my 63 years of driving!

 

I'm on #5 , S non S, and pretty much all generations with no real issues. If that tells you anything. But I also never wait for the 15k to change the oil. I'm at 1500 on the 12 and doing the change this week with a magnetic plug.

 

Amazing what a little maint. can do.
I do however change mine at 6K miles.
I just put the magnetic plug in and am anxious to see what
all it pulls out of the block at next change.

 

As others have said, service and maintenance are big issues and unfortunately, MINI recommends extended service intervals for some maintenance items, specifically oil changes. 2011 MY was the major refresh and in my estimation is a much improved MINI over 2007-2010 MY. Further as CR indicates, most of the issues are with the "S" version, not the Justa. The '07-'10 MY uses the N14 engine and the '11 MY and beyond uses the N18 engine. I am sure the "major engine" issue relates to the timing chain / death rattle problem that many MINI owners have experienced. MY son has an 09' Clubman S and has had this issue. The "fuel system" issue is no doubt the HPFP, again a known MINI / BMW issue. I would disagree about waiting for the 3rd Gen MCS (F56) expected in 2013, as is commom with most new generation vehicles, I suspect you'll find more teething issues issues that will need to be worked out as that generation matures. That is certainly been the experience with Gen 1 and Gen 2 MINI's. I think the last of the R56's will prove to be pretty decent cars. So far, mine has been perfect with 17K miles on it. Again maintenance is key and I change my oil every 5K. Best of luck. I have been blessed to have very reliable cars my whole life, and my MINI is no exception. It is however the most fun vehicle I have ever owned. I like to say, all things considered (cost to purchase, cost to operate, fun factor) it is the best piece of personal transportation available.

 

All I will say is that the dealer I leased my 2011 from last year is now starting to see early 2011's with the timing chain rattle issues. 2011 does have the N18 engine that is revised and produces more HP but looks like they have not fixed this timing chain issue yet.

I started hearing it on mine before I traded it. It was a factor in me getting rid of it actually. Yes it may be under warranty but I have no patience for this when its been a known issue for years now. For me it was just to many issues that have been known about since the early days of the R56 and should have been resolved long ago in production.

I hoped 2011 would bring those changes, it didn't.

 

now I thought the N18 wasn't revised but rather more of a new engine.

I can live with a lot of problems, but now the poster above is claiming that even 2011s are suffering from timing chain problems...

This makes me very nervous, reading through the common problems thread I thought the timing chain/death rattle issue was sorted out by now, especially in the n18 engine.

Seeing posts/quotes like "genetic design defect" and "these motors are like grenades waiting to explode".....

What gives here? Is this 2011 occurrence a one off?

I REALLY want one of these cars...I guess I could buy new, drive while warranty and see if I get a good one....and if not, sell it....

 

Yeah, after the 1500 I do them every 5-6k also.

 

There is a campaign going on which I believe covers the 2011's on the timing chain issue. What I'm hearing is if you bring your car in for service or whatever, the dealer checks to see if the VIN is on their list and they replace part of the tensioner. I'm assuming it's the adjusting bolt but not
sure on that. There's a thread out here explaining it.
It is not a recall and doesn't impact all cars.

 

These are great cars. Definitely require TLC, but well worth it. I change my oil every 6000 as well. I had the "chatter" issue, but it has been going strong since the dealer fixed it. 72k in 2.5 years, one of the most reliable DDs I've ever had.

 

I have a 2009 MCS 22k fun car to drive, turns on a dime, great gas mileage but I have a few gripes and its about reliability. .

At 5k miles it started throwing CEL's and had trouble holding an idle when cold. The Dealer installed revised intake manifold on it, and said they were seeing quite a few mini's in for same reason it was winter in the midwest it was cold.

At 13k miles I had the death rattle and had a new timing chain and guide rail put in, this was covered under the warranty.

Four months ago I had the carbon blast clean out, (sorry can,t remember correct term) dealer blamed the gas. It was covered under warranty, and when I asked about it my SA told me it was a common issue, and was $500.00 to have it done if not covered. I image they pulled a vacuum hose and did a sea foam treatment on it.

Three days ago I got my Mini back from the dealership after changing out my Timing Chain and Guild Rails again for the second time and to complete the recall for the water pump. They also replaced my hood scoop as it was warped on top .

All of the problems I have had has been covered under warranty, but with the amount of problems with 22k miles its not reliable. I hate to say it but I am ready for new car.

 

I'm located in Detroit as well, which dealer have you been going to, Motor City Mini, and how are they with repairs, etc?

 

Pheatton,

Based upon my research here, I am seeing very few timing chain rattle problems 2011 and forward, yet you are claiming the problem still plagues 2011 and new models and your dealer is starting to see problems with 2011s.

Do you mind sharing the name of your dealer and how many timing chain cases they have already seen in 2011? This seems very suprising to me and contrary to much of what I'm reading here. Thanks.

If what you say is true, maybe I'll just lease for three years instead of buy, and pound the ***** outta of it like I stole it, and then turn it in, fully covered by warranty the whole time...

 

You're EVIL!!! The poor next owner will get scared poopless to ever buy another MINI again after he deals with what you give him!

 

I have an '07 S, picked it up at the very end of August that year. Within 6 months I had the thermostat stick open on me. Dealer fixed that with a software change or update. Problem hasn't returned since then. I also had the issue with the windows not sealing all the way up when closing the door. Had that fixed, supposedly. I notice that every once in a while, not often, it will still do it.

My car has the death rattle from time to time. Haven't had the issue addressed.

Did have a bad oil sensor go off on me once and had that repaired, luckily while it was still under warranty. As fate would have it, I was traveling to meet an old college friend and was only about 2 miles from a dealer so I got it fixed.

Took the car in for the turbo pump recall this Tuesday. After fixing the issue, they tell me I have a very slight oil leak in the oil feed line to the turbo and it would cost me $865 to fix. Have no idea if they're blowing smoke up my butt or not. Haven't noticed any oil leaks on the ground. Luckily, I have a mechanic in the family and we ordered a service manual and he's going to check it out and see if he needs to order the replacement kit for the feed line.

I've also had other minor issues that plague the 2nd gens, especially 07s. The wiper fluid nozzles tear on really hot days, the sunroof doesn't always open on first try when the temp is really high. If you open a window and wait a brief moment, it pops right open, so it doesn't bother me. The front fog lights get some condensation from time to time. That's all stuff that doesn't bother me or is barely noticeable so it was never worth the long drive to the dealer to repair them....or for them to try to repair that stuff anyway.

Guess it sounds worse than it is. I haven't had any issues where the car was undrivable. (Hope it stays that way.) Car is loads of fun to drive and always a conversation piece. I ordered mine with tons of bells and whistles the way I wanted which I never did before when buying a car so that was a first time thrill. I will seriously consider buying a Mini again, though I think next one will be a non S model. My need for speed is decreasing as I age plus I'd love even better gas mileage. Also, living in the north east I found out the hard way that I did not need the $500 extra sport suspension. My bladder will thank me for that. Though, I think I had to get an S to get it out of my system so to speak. Was worth it for that.

 

Yeah, I went to Motor City for all of my warranty work. I was just there for the recall. I've never had any issue with their work and they have good coffee .
I am well outside the warranty period now (passed that mileage at about the 1 year mark). I now go to Detroit Tuned for any major work that I don't want to tackle myself. I just had the turbo oil feed line replaced at DT and Chad did a fantastic job.