R56 Break-in Follow Up
After 35 plus years of wrenching on cars (mostly European) and motorcycles, I am pretty well convinced that one of the secrets to optimum performance with any motor lies in the proper break-in of the rings. The improvements in machining and manufacturing quality and in materials makes a 250,000 mile motor with reasonable maintenance a reality rather than an exception. If you have a serious mechanical problem with a motor, it won't matter what break-in technique is used - it will still break.
The first trick is to get the garbage from machining and manufacturing out of the engine quickly, so uncontrolled machining doesn't take place, and then get the rings to seal tightly under both acceleration and deceleration loads. Casting sand particles and small metal bits make wonderful milling tools.
Forget about heat-cycling unless you are using rings that are manufactured in an annealed condition. Once they are hardened, the same break-in rules apply. Synthetic oil is terrific stuff- it's too slipery, IMHO, for break-in. Use a high quality conventional oil like Castrol GTX for the first couple of thousand miles, then change to the Mini oil or another good synthetic. Amsoil is obviously pushing their product, but they have some interesting synthetic oil tests on their website.
If you are leasing your car or planning to get rid of it in 100,000 miles or less, by all means follow the recommended maintenance. I plan to keep my Cooper a very long time and autocross the wheels off it. I'll be using no more than 7,500 miles between oil & filter changes. The rest of the fluids will be changed at no more than half of the recommended frequencies with very high grade products. As far as I'm concerned, it's cheap insurance.
Go to the following website for some interesting food for thought on engine break-in:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
The writer of this site also has some interesting techniques on porting that I found out years ago really works.
Learn as much as you can, and then do what seems right for you. I know what I'm doing...
The first trick is to get the garbage from machining and manufacturing out of the engine quickly, so uncontrolled machining doesn't take place, and then get the rings to seal tightly under both acceleration and deceleration loads. Casting sand particles and small metal bits make wonderful milling tools.
Forget about heat-cycling unless you are using rings that are manufactured in an annealed condition. Once they are hardened, the same break-in rules apply. Synthetic oil is terrific stuff- it's too slipery, IMHO, for break-in. Use a high quality conventional oil like Castrol GTX for the first couple of thousand miles, then change to the Mini oil or another good synthetic. Amsoil is obviously pushing their product, but they have some interesting synthetic oil tests on their website.
If you are leasing your car or planning to get rid of it in 100,000 miles or less, by all means follow the recommended maintenance. I plan to keep my Cooper a very long time and autocross the wheels off it. I'll be using no more than 7,500 miles between oil & filter changes. The rest of the fluids will be changed at no more than half of the recommended frequencies with very high grade products. As far as I'm concerned, it's cheap insurance.
Go to the following website for some interesting food for thought on engine break-in:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
The writer of this site also has some interesting techniques on porting that I found out years ago really works.
Learn as much as you can, and then do what seems right for you. I know what I'm doing...
Anyone done a factory delivery lately? We picked up a car recently and got there early before the delivery section opened. We walked down the side of the building and about halfway down this garage door opens and out comes screaming this brand new bimmer (whoops) and they go flying down the side of the building out to the road and hang a right.
So I stand there and listen to the screaming engine, tires squealing and then they brake, turn around, and come flying back screaming into the parking lot. Then this kid jumps out and runs back into the building.
Now in this 2-3 minutes, 3 more cars have come out this door. I figure it's about 1 mile tops. I imagine by the sound of the revs they were seating the rings for us...I'm pretty sure it's the same for MINI's.
But.... I still follow the break-in. The delivery rep talked me into it.
So I stand there and listen to the screaming engine, tires squealing and then they brake, turn around, and come flying back screaming into the parking lot. Then this kid jumps out and runs back into the building.
Now in this 2-3 minutes, 3 more cars have come out this door. I figure it's about 1 mile tops. I imagine by the sound of the revs they were seating the rings for us...I'm pretty sure it's the same for MINI's.
But.... I still follow the break-in. The delivery rep talked me into it.
There's something just a little sleazy feeling about that mototune site. The lack of hard data, general hinting at automaker conspiracy, and overstatement of claims, makes me nervous. Pics of a handful of pistons isn't a convincing argument to me. Hey, is he, by any chance, selling something? I prefer more objective data when I'm rolling this large a die.
Not to say that there's no possible logic behind it. But, even if, then, is it the best way to break-in for longevity, or for performance, or perhaps both? And is the best way to break-in an engine intended for high demand performance, or for one that'll spend 80% of it's life under 3K rpm?
And, as important to me, if that guy's wrong, will he pay to fix my engine? MINI will.
Not to say that there's no possible logic behind it. But, even if, then, is it the best way to break-in for longevity, or for performance, or perhaps both? And is the best way to break-in an engine intended for high demand performance, or for one that'll spend 80% of it's life under 3K rpm?
And, as important to me, if that guy's wrong, will he pay to fix my engine? MINI will.
The next time you go 15,000 miles on the MINI 5W-30 oil, send a sample of it to a competent lab before you have the oil changed. I can guarantee that you won't like what you'll find out...
Last edited by ScottRiqui; Aug 25, 2008 at 09:21 PM.
I redlined (well, almost) and accidently kicked down at mile 7.
Broke 100mph (wasn't paying attention) at mile 20 during my first commute to work.
Followed the recommendations for about 500 miles, then slowly started pulling harder.
I have no proof, I have no mechanical experience nor professional schooling on the subject matter. I don't believe in the "drive it like you stole it", but I think that you should drive it like you normally would. Something just doesn't sit right with me if you break it in one way and drive it another way later on. I think i'm leaning toward the drive hard first and retain your performance later.
I mean, if people are supposedly changing the oil at 1200 to get rid of all the shavings and such and you've driven it the recommended way. After you change the oil, you drive another way that the rings and such aren't used to, aren't you creating more metal bits and stuff driving it differently... now you've got that stuff in your oil (hopefully the filter caught it) until you get a dealer change or you change it around 10k... or maybe i'm crazy thinking like this.
Broke 100mph (wasn't paying attention) at mile 20 during my first commute to work.
Followed the recommendations for about 500 miles, then slowly started pulling harder.
I have no proof, I have no mechanical experience nor professional schooling on the subject matter. I don't believe in the "drive it like you stole it", but I think that you should drive it like you normally would. Something just doesn't sit right with me if you break it in one way and drive it another way later on. I think i'm leaning toward the drive hard first and retain your performance later.
I mean, if people are supposedly changing the oil at 1200 to get rid of all the shavings and such and you've driven it the recommended way. After you change the oil, you drive another way that the rings and such aren't used to, aren't you creating more metal bits and stuff driving it differently... now you've got that stuff in your oil (hopefully the filter caught it) until you get a dealer change or you change it around 10k... or maybe i'm crazy thinking like this.
You're comparing apples and oranges. MINI's break-in recommendation is in line with every other manufacturer's recommendations whether they recommend a 7,500 or even 3,000 mile oil change interval. Mini's service interval is designed to be as minimal (read cheap) for BMW as possible to get the motor to survive until the standard warranty runs out. That goes hand in hand with the outrageous extended warranty prices which are about 3 times that of any other car or truck I've owned. I have not seen 1 single oil analysis from a MINI that even suggests the oil can go past 8,000 miles at most. 4.5 quarts just are not enough to last as long as MINI claims. It's not like a Mercedes motor that holds 9 or 10 quarts. And even Mercedes' computers don't call for oil changes longer than 10,000 miles.
In short, the break-in is a standard engineering/manufacturing recommendation while the "free maintenance" is a marketing ploy calculated on an accountants balance sheet.
-C
In short, the break-in is a standard engineering/manufacturing recommendation while the "free maintenance" is a marketing ploy calculated on an accountants balance sheet.
-C
You're right. Everyone is out to get you.
MINI should be sued in a class-action.I've had 3 BMWs and numerous Mercedes. Synthetic oil lasts, I don't care what kind of "****-ysis" you perform. My cars never had an engine lockup.
They wouldn't risk all this for free oil changes, which are what, $25?
You're also killing the environment by using extra oil. Anyone want to buy some carbon credits?
If anyone choses to ignore facts such as a scientific analysis in making decisions, that is their choice and they assume the consequences of their choice.
As far as the environment, the manufacture of almost evert highly advanced piece of equipment, such as a contemporary motor vehicle, has a huge negative environmental impact. Manufacturers such as Mini, BMW, et el. have made tremendous advances in minimizing the downside of manufacturing, but nevertheless, a significant amount of environmental damage remains for each vehicle that is built.
IMHO one of the most important thing we can do as consumers is to make our cars last, at least if we have some regard for their environmental impact. We have to find the balance between excessive and inadequate in the use of the critical maintenance items consumed by our vehicles over their entire useful life. Inadequate maintenance, and the shortening of a vehicle's useful life is wasteful and detrimental to the environment as a whole.
The manufacturer's marketing and warranty departments will probably disagree. Consider where they are comming from and what their responsibilities to the company's finances are though .
As far as the environment, the manufacture of almost evert highly advanced piece of equipment, such as a contemporary motor vehicle, has a huge negative environmental impact. Manufacturers such as Mini, BMW, et el. have made tremendous advances in minimizing the downside of manufacturing, but nevertheless, a significant amount of environmental damage remains for each vehicle that is built.
IMHO one of the most important thing we can do as consumers is to make our cars last, at least if we have some regard for their environmental impact. We have to find the balance between excessive and inadequate in the use of the critical maintenance items consumed by our vehicles over their entire useful life. Inadequate maintenance, and the shortening of a vehicle's useful life is wasteful and detrimental to the environment as a whole.
The manufacturer's marketing and warranty departments will probably disagree. Consider where they are comming from and what their responsibilities to the company's finances are though .
My point is I don't care what the test shows. The car still runs. The oil is in there. I met and followed the OBC's recommendations. What's the problem? Is the oil as clean as if I changed it every 3,000? Of course not. But it will last, so why do I care how dirty it is?
You're also killing the environment by using extra oil. Anyone want to buy some carbon credits?
You're also killing the environment by using extra oil. Anyone want to buy some carbon credits?
Also, following the OBC isn't necessarily committing you to 15,000-mile changes. The OBC-recommended intervals are often 18,000 miles, 20,000 miles, or even longer.
None of this is worth worrying about if you don't plan on keeping the car much past 75,000 miles or so, but my wife and I have two MINIs, and we tend to keep our cars for a *long* time, so it's been worth it to me to have multiple oil analyses done. I'm not a big fan of changing the oil every 3,000 miles "just to be safe", so I'm experimenting with different oils and change intervals in an effort to come up with a strategy that allows long change intervals (10-15k), while still providing excellent long-term protection for the engine.
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