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R56 Headlight on vs headlight off MPG

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Old Jul 1, 2008 | 07:02 PM
  #26  
sgrobben's Avatar
sgrobben
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Originally Posted by donaldj
In practical application this isn't necessarily the case, though. Your alternator is causing loss on the drive system, true, but it may be creating extra electricity in the system that is simply going to waste. Adding another electrical device can use up some of that waste with no further loss in the system.
Modern car alternators provide power as needed. Only the amount of power necessary to keep accessories running and keep the battery charged is produced (if functioning properly).
 
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Old Jul 1, 2008 | 08:06 PM
  #27  
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MCS07MGM
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From: Montgomery AL
Boyle's Law Distortion

Originally Posted by terryg
Light has mass. The thrust from pushing the light out of the front of the car slows the car down significantly. The lights also give off heat, which causes the air molecules in front of the car to become agitated, and the friction slows the vehicle down even more.
As you point out in your first statement, the underlying phenomenon stems from Newton's Third Law of Motion, namely, For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Light emitted in the beam causes a force in the opposite direction of the beam -- thus retarding the car's velocity and requiring more fuel ... less mileage ... et al.

However, your assertion that heat from the emitted light results in greater air friction is a discombobulation[1] and a distortion of Boyle's Law[2]. Let's set the record straight on that point.

One wonders whether HID or xenon beams would differ in their ability to enhance or detract from achieveable mileage???

[1] Discombobulation. A theoretical boundary condition allegedly deduced by Robert (Bob) Boyle who studied the relationship between pressure and volume of an ideal gas concluding p*V = constant. Some, including Boyle himself, wrongly argue that as the volume V approaches zero, then the pressure p must rise without limit ... a claim soundly refuted by most scholars.
[2] Boyle's Law
 
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Old Jul 1, 2008 | 08:23 PM
  #28  
MakoBimmer's Avatar
MakoBimmer
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From: Kihei,HI
You might want to check your Blinker Fluid. It can affect your MPG as well...so Ive been told.
 
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Old Jul 1, 2008 | 08:26 PM
  #29  
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nouse4aname
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From: Dayton, OH
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question424.htm
To calculate how many gallons of gas this is, you can divide the 4.26 billion kilowatt hours of energy that the daytime running lights consume each year by the 10.5 kilowatt-hours of energy each gallon of gas yields. If daytime running lights were on all the vehicles in the U.S., we would burn an extra 406 million gallons of gas each year. That's only a couple gallons for each vehicle, but in total it is more than all of the vehicles in the country burn in a day. At $1.50 a gallon(Ha!, the good ol days), that's $600 million per year. Looking at it another way, an extra 8 billion pounds of Carbon Dioxide would be added to the atmosphere by this law.
http://www.motorists.org/drl/
Sun's up - light's off - thank you
While seldom admitted, the primary motivation for putting DRLs on American market cars is that it saves money. Rather than building one lighting system for Canada, where DRLs are mandated, and a different system for the US market, GM decided to save a few bucks by just installing the DRL equipped system on both the US and Canadian models.
The first, last and only large scale U.S. study that has been completed and published on the effects of DRLs as safety devices, was conducted by the insurance industry Highway Loss Data Institute. The results; vehicles equipped with DRLs were involved in more accidents than similar vehicles without DRLs. The difference was minimal, but the meaning was straight forward, DRLs aggravate other motorists, obscure directional lights, waste fuel, "mask" other road users that don't have headlights on, or don't have headlights period (pedestrians and bicyclists) and their net effect on accident reduction is zero or worse.
 
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Old Jul 1, 2008 | 08:34 PM
  #30  
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r56mini
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From: home
Also, it needs to be noted that when the headlights are lit the electricity flow to the lamps create electro-magnetism on the wires. If the magnetic force field is in such way that the earth's magnetic force exerts any forward vector in relation to the car's velocity then the car's mpg will improve but if the force is exerted in the opposite direction to the car's velocity then the mpg will drop.
This might also contribute to the occasional rattle some drivers experience if the wires are not securely fastened to the chassis of the car.
The navigation system can be coordinated so that the on board computer can determine when to turn the lights on to take advantage of the electromagnetic effect as well.
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 11:10 AM
  #31  
DanQ's Avatar
DanQ
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
Originally Posted by nouse4aname
From that link lets caluclate how much gas DRL use, assume (from the article above):
100 watts for bulbs
25% efficiency of internal combustion
70% efficency for alternator to 12V DC
1g gas contains 60,000 Whr of energy

60000Whr x 25% x 70% = 10500 Watt hour to the lights per gallon of gas taking into account internal combustion and alternator.

100w bulb /10500w/hr = .0095 g/hour to light the DRL

Now another assumption, say you get 34mpg running at 80mph average
this is 2.353g/hour

.0095/2.353 is about 0.4% hit to mileage or about 0.14mpg

Hope I got the math right
 

Last edited by DanQ; Jul 2, 2008 at 11:30 AM.
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 11:27 AM
  #32  
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DanQ
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
Originally Posted by staz87
I remember reading in PM that daylight running lights can reduce mileage by .1 MPG.
So after all that, Staz87 was right!
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 01:10 PM
  #33  
MCS07MGM's Avatar
MCS07MGM
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From: Montgomery AL
Depends on Your Latitude

Originally Posted by r56mini
Also, it needs to be noted that when the headlights are lit the electricity flow to the lamps create electro-magnetism on the wires. If the magnetic force field is in such way that the earth's magnetic force exerts any forward vector in relation to the car's velocity then the car's mpg will improve but if the force is exerted in the opposite direction to the car's velocity then the mpg will drop.
Well and truly noted ... moreover, the effect should be greater near the equator where the magnetic flux lines are at a more oblique angle and, hence a more pronouncded horizontal component than say near Hudson Bay where the flux lines are nearly vertical to the earth's surface.

Perhaps our colleagues in Texas could contrast their mileage v. our friends in eastern Canada to verify your theory. Surely these discussions will ferret out the relevant factors affecting mileage with or without headlights lit -- hopefully independent of whether S or non-S machines.
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 05:47 PM
  #34  
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From: DC
Originally Posted by Frank Matyja
I'm not an engineer, but from my old Cobra racing days it was felt that the more drain that you put on your electrical system, the harder the alternator has to work. The harder the alternator has to work takes more horsepower to turn the alternator. Hence in race cars quick recovery batteries to take the load off of the alternator. If there is someone out there who can confirm this I would appreciate it. I know that when Throw an extra draw on the electrical system in the mini I can temporarily here the RPMs drop slightly. This to me would indicate the extra load.
When I was racing Bugeye Sprites we were removing the generators entirely and replacing batteries with freshly charged ones between track sessions. A generator could sap a significant amount of power out of a 948cc normally aspirated engine. (Even though it was punched out to 998cc and cranking 100hp)
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 06:45 PM
  #35  
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From: Cincinnati, OH
A lot of good and funny posts up there. But whats pretty sad is the education in other countries related to this such as India. Not sure how well people would believe me on this so i found something else talking about it: http://www.eol.ucar.edu/dir_off/proj...DOEX_log1.html

"Arrival in India is always late at night; Airport is about 20 miles out of town, cabdrivers do not use their headlights once they leave the airport "to save gas"."

Not sure about the current state but this was a big issue as cars were starting to get more common. People were warned at my work about it.

The .1 sounds about right. Certainly nothing to justify the safety issue of driving around without headlights on in the dark. Depending on your volume setting your radio could be using more energy than your headlights.
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 06:49 PM
  #36  
muladesigns1's Avatar
muladesigns1
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From: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted by r56mini
The photons from the headlights slow the time down as the car travels through the path of the photons traveling at the speed of the light. Therefore, the velocity of the car has to be recalculated accordingly. Because less time is spent to travel the same distance, the speedometer reading is slower than it is.

miles/gal = miles/hour x time spent x 1/fuel used.
Therefore, as the speed goes up miles/gal improves. So you get better mpg with the headlights on.
The absolute best response to a post I have ever seen!
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 07:06 PM
  #37  
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dwebber18
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From: TN
Definitely go faster and see what happens. And I agree, the fresher the wash and wax the faster you will go and the better gas mileage you will get. It only makes sense. Why else would snowboarders wax their boards and surfers and stuff. I also read and article showing that headlights on does use more gas, but its very small like the .1 mentioned. But the drastic change was probably more air flow, traffic, driving style and other stuff like that
 
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Old Jul 2, 2008 | 07:39 PM
  #38  
RS_man's Avatar
RS_man
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From: NoCO
Apparently there is a formulation of headlight fluid that you add to the flux capacitor to create a vortex which reduces gravitational forces and wind resistance. I tried it and got about 200mpg. Great stuff.
 
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