Quote of the day imo. The Cooper is a driver's car, you'll get the most out of it if you enjoy driving. If you want practical there are better choices out there (not to say the Cooper can't hold its own in terms of practicality, but there are better choices out there if that's your main reason for owning a car).

 

"Actually, I dislike driving in general, I just want to get there and be done with it...."


It this case why buy a Mini, get the Corolla, Camry, etc....

 

Well put.

 

would buy the s model all over again

 

i was away on vacation for a few days and I sure did miss my Cricket! Purposely made a few errands just to get back and enjoy the connection.

 

I've owned both. The S is the better car and the better value. Arguing about the price or gas mileage difference between these two cars is kinda silly. The couple miles per gallon difference at roughly 30 MPG are proportionally not nearly as significant as they are at 20 MPG. Others have said it better here: If you're THAT concerned about gas mileage, get a Prius. The price difference between the cars vanishes quickly when you consider the other standards on the S in addition to the extra HP: Seats, Wheels, hood scoop, front fascia, fogs. Very few people will buy a totally base Cooper. Few will pay cash for the car. So the price difference is ultimately a few bucks per month. And if the 1k or so REAL price difference is THAT big a deal, buy a Yaris. Way cheaper AND better mileage...regular gas too!
And the reliability argument is perhaps the weakest of all. If reliability is your thing, buy a Honda. No Mini is in the same reliability league as the Japanese subcompacts.
JMHO.

 

 

Erin Riches from edmunds.com asks the question:

What if I said no to the Turbo?

"Just before the holidays I spent a long weekend with a 2008 Mini Cooper hatch, the base model, with the Sport Package and various other options. I never cared for the base version of the previous Cooper. I was quite surprised then when I ended up liking the car -- to the point that I'd take the base hatch over our turbocharged S, even without the $3,000 price break.

Even in its naturally aspirated state (118 hp at 6,000 rpm, 114 lb-ft of torque at 4,250), the PSA 1.6-liter has considerable pull at low rpm. There's plenty here for catching the holes in traffic with enough left over to break the front tires loose if you're into that. I had to shift more often on freeway grades to keep it in its power band, but Minis are rewarding to shift, so this wasn't a negative.

There's also a lot to be said for the base Cooper's lack of torque steer. I felt freer to drive the car with abandon since big throttle inputs didn't cause excessive left-right fidgeting.

Finally, the nonfunctional hood vent: The base Cooper doesn't have one.

Where does that leave our long-term 2007 Mini Cooper S? I still like it and I still bargain for opportunities to drive it. But the base car is better than I ever would have believed."

Here's the link to Ms. Riches' article:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/.eea1c90

 

here's an excerpt from an article written by Josh Sadlier of edmunds.com:

"Why wouldn't I buy a Mini like ours?"(a 2007 MCS w/ SS and 17" wheels)

"Two reasons: (1) harsh ride, and (2) demonic torque steer. Brian has already addressed (1) by advising prospective buyers to forgo the optional sport package (which includes upsized 17-inch tires) and sport suspension -- anathema on a BMW 3 Series, for example, but sensible here given our Mini's buckboard-grade ride quality. However, I'm afraid (2) is just part of the car's DNA. For whatever reason the Mini's engineers apparently thought torque steer was cool (unlike the Mazdaspeed3's engineers, for example). It's definitely not cool when I'm powering through a lefthand corner and the wheel's trying to tug me into oncoming traffic.

Josh Sadlier, Associate Editor, Edmunds.com @ 16,282 miles"

here's the link to the full article by Mr. Sadlier:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.eea7a33

 

This is definitely a case of "Different Strokes for Different Folks". For the driver that wants to have a fun way to putz around town, a regular Cooper would probably suffice. The additional power from an "S" might not even be utilized. For me, the "S" is a must. It will be the 4th fastest car in my garage, so I wouldn't consider it to be speedy, but it is quite fun and great "bang for the buck".

 

Okay someone mentioned this earlier.

"Valve drain-down-engine-noise (cold-start) issue with the Cooper S."

What the hell is that? I do live in Denver and therefore the Cooper would have to start while being very cold out. So what is that noise?

 

Motoringfile.com has a big article about this, complete with videos that record what the noise is. Basically, there's been some people who have found that the engine in their MCS after 5000 miles makes a "rattle/tick/clatter" noise that only happens when the engine is started in cold weather, then the noise goes away when the engine warms up. This has caused a lot of concern, with the most common complaint being that any sort of "metal-on-metal" noise is bad and therefore unacceptable in a new engine.

There has been a lot of theories about the cause of this being posted by owners, but as far as I know, now no-one (including BMW-Mini) has come up with definitive cause or fix. In fact, there is some concession that this might not even be a problem in the first place.

You'll want to read it for yourself and make up your own mind. As for me, based on everything I've read, heard and experienced regarding my Mini, I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

 

I drived a lot of aspirated 1.6 engines between 90 and 150hp and the 1.6 118hp that the mini has is not different than the rest.
in all aspirated small engines 1.6L (80-120hp) you don't have any power below 4000rpm compared to turbo engines (even with less power, lets says 100hp with TC will give much more power than a aspirated 120hp)
from all those 118hp, the normal user will never see more than 60-70hp, that is because the normal driver use the 2000-4000rpm range.
that's why so many people always say diesels are way better than aspirated engines. you have more power for the normal user with turbo charged engines.


I think the future is the turbo for all engines. look at brands like peugeot, seat, VW. they can get 150-160hp with 1.4-1.6L engines. and of that power, you have over 100hp below 4000rpm. so the normal drivers pay for real power.

"Even in its naturally aspirated state (118 hp at 6,000 rpm, 114 lb-ft of torque at 4,250), the PSA 1.6-liter has considerable pull at low rpm. There's plenty here for catching the holes in traffic with enough left over to break the front tires loose if you're into that. I had to shift more often on freeway grades to keep it in its power band, but Minis are rewarding to shift, so this wasn't a negative"

yes, there is it if you are at 4000-5000rpm, otherside the car won't accelerate.

last point, MPG: to use the 90-110hp you have to drive between 5000-6500rpm in the MC.
to use 90-110hp in the MCS, you have to be between2500-3000rpm.

then tell me wich one has better MPG using the same power. so.. why say no to the turbo?

 

It's the result of direct-injection; very much like diesel in this regard... certainly no reason *not* to buy an S.

 

The S is the way to go, I get easily 35mpg in mine, and still have lots of power on demand if I want it or decide to hit the Dragon one day or smoke someone in the next lane. But I agree with the different strokes for different folks. I have friends with justacoopers and they are completely happy, so its all in what you want and what you want your car to do. Remember though, its a MINI; its all about making you happy and getting in your car with a smile.

 

I think Ricky's comment about the Mustang and the Miata are right on target. I have driven both the MCS and the MC and they are both wonderful driving experiences. I personally chose the MC for the following reasons.

1. Budget The MC was a bit of a stretch and the used marker was looking a bit scarey. (A Honda would make more sense but why drive a Honda when you can drive a MC)

2. Handling The MC can handle just as well as an "S"

3. Purity: I think the MC is closer in concept to the original MINI Cooper. It won all of those races in the 60s by handling better not with big power.


This being said I will probably go with an MCS the next time around (the kids will be done with school by then.

Lastly I cannot imagine having a small car with an automatic. I am not trying to offend those who prefer automatics. I just love the connection you get with a MT.

 

I completely agree with all 3 of your points, I have seen a MC fly around the dragon faster than most MCSs. I wanted a MCS because I wanted more power, but I can easily see why people love the MC. Its all about making you the owner happy, its your car do what makes you smile. If you think the MC is ok but may want a little more power go for the MCS, but if the MC makes you smile and it fits your needs then by all means go for it and have a great time with the experience. Personally I just love to go out every morning, uncover my MCS and hop in with a big grin, especially when I pass all those sad looking people on the road.

 

But you see, the problem is that I don't know what it is that makes me happy. MINI offers such an extreme level of choices to the point where I can't quit obsessing over what the right desision is. S, yes or no? sport suspension, yes or no? sunroof, yes or no? And the list goes on and on, leaving my logical left-brain confused. But I know I'll eventually sort it out and finally make a decision one day though.

 

is always thesame, people with MC says the MC is the right choise. people wth mcs says the mcs is the one.
I just listen to peope who have both or had have both cars. the rest is just too subjective (MC only owners or MCS only owners). and a single test of any of 2 cars is not enought to know how the car is.

but this should be the only place where people say that the same car, but with less power and less low end torque is a better choise!!!
ok ok, so a porsche with 150hp will be better tha those with 300 and 400hp.. sorry I don't believe you!

 

Um. The cars that won "all of those races in the 60s" were all of the S variety, with higher power than the base Coopers. Learn your history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini#The_Mini_Cooper_and_Cooper_S:_1961-2000

 

I would make a pro and con list. Price the options you want on both models and see what you come up with, make a second list with the options your need to have and then compare the price. Personally I think the grille and the standard wheels make the S look a little better, and I like the extra power. It really is all you want out of it, fun car thats super cool and really economical, then go MC. If you want a super cool ridiculously fun car thats pretty economical then go for the MCS. For me the MCS is the way to go because I wanted the power, for others they may not care about the extra power, and want the extra MPG. I would say if you feel equally happy with both and the extra few bucks don't bother you go for the MCS and get the extra, if you are price conscious and the MC makes you happy go that route. And I agree with the other poster that we are all biased to what we have or prefer, and its incredibly hard for us to recommend one over the other just because they are both really good, and have equally strong points thats just a matter of preference. And I think the comment about the races in the 60s were more aimed at normally aspirated vs. forced induction, not S or nonS

 

although mines a first gen, i couldnt see buying this car without any forced induction or turbo. (way to slow for my driving style).
3K for the added power is cheap. look at how much people pay to mod up there cars. an exhaust is 1K alone for a good one!

S is the only way to truly enjoy this little car!

 

I've driven only 500 miles, but I completely fall in love with my MINI Cooper "S". You will feel the smoother drive with power than regular cooper. Of course gas mileage is anther important factor, but you should enjoy "feeling the road." This is highly subjective, but I will definately buy "S" over and over again. (( I highly recommend all packages - convenience, premium, sports, cold weather ))

 

I've heard people regretting the sport suspension. I've heard them regret getting the HiFi. I've heard them regret getting a sunroof. I've heard them regret getting stripes.

I've never heard one person regret getting an S.

 

X2
if you want an "economy" car by the "justacooper"(or save money and by a civic) if you want to by a "spirited" driving experience buy the S