R56 Thank you DSC/ASC! But did it get burned?
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
Haha. You're the one forcing this asinine conversation on me, ScottinBend. DSC is a traction control system – you're stooping to semantics when you differentiate between it and ASC or whatever else alphabet soup they have brewing under the hood. There is a single toggle which turns it all on or off. For the purposes of driving, it's IRRELEVANT which system makes my car handle like *** in snow.
For everyday driving I keep DSC on. When conditions are universally poor I know that I have better control of the vehicle and am safer with it off. You can choose to believe what you want. But pointing out the "gee whiz" technical sophistication of the system does not invalidate my experiences driving a lot last winter through horrible conditions. I jumped into my car whenever it got bad because I enjoyed it. (Getting stuck isn't a big deal when you're not trying to get anywhere specific on time.) I've experienced DSC in poor conditions. I do not appreciate it. This isn't from some abstract position where I hate traction control systems; this is grounded in real-world experimentation.
Theoreticals about someone pulling out in front of me are irrelevant. I, the driver, would know that someone was pulling out in front of me, and would react in a controlled, rational matter dependent on my experiences driving in poor conditions. I would do this independently of any traction control systems. Whether DSC would be an aid is entirely dependent on the conditions.
I am not saying that I'm a better or more experienced driver than you, the original poster, or anyone else who uses or doesn't use DSC. I don't care. I do care about driving safely in the winter and getting to my destinations. This means without DSC in poor conditions. If it means you drive with DSC, fine. Get the drift?
For everyday driving I keep DSC on. When conditions are universally poor I know that I have better control of the vehicle and am safer with it off. You can choose to believe what you want. But pointing out the "gee whiz" technical sophistication of the system does not invalidate my experiences driving a lot last winter through horrible conditions. I jumped into my car whenever it got bad because I enjoyed it. (Getting stuck isn't a big deal when you're not trying to get anywhere specific on time.) I've experienced DSC in poor conditions. I do not appreciate it. This isn't from some abstract position where I hate traction control systems; this is grounded in real-world experimentation.
Theoreticals about someone pulling out in front of me are irrelevant. I, the driver, would know that someone was pulling out in front of me, and would react in a controlled, rational matter dependent on my experiences driving in poor conditions. I would do this independently of any traction control systems. Whether DSC would be an aid is entirely dependent on the conditions.
I am not saying that I'm a better or more experienced driver than you, the original poster, or anyone else who uses or doesn't use DSC. I don't care. I do care about driving safely in the winter and getting to my destinations. This means without DSC in poor conditions. If it means you drive with DSC, fine. Get the drift?
I don't even know where to start on this..........but I will try.
The biggest complaint I have with folks like you and crashton are the very broad statements to not get DSC and then complain only about the universally agreed upon lousy traction control which is only a part of the system.
You state you leave the DSC on for everyday driving......why? DSC was developed to help you maintain control when in adverse conditions. Just because you don't like the traction control doesn't mean that the rest of the system doesn't work as designed. Unfortunately you can not get a MINI w/o traction control, but you can get it with the benefits of the DSC system.
Your statement about being able to react "in a controlled, rational matter dependent on my experiences driving in poor conditions" holds no water. Have you ever taken any kind of defensive driver training? If so you should remember the evasive maneuver training. Have you ever seen the videos of the SUV's loosing control after making an emergency lane change...........and now DSC or it's equivalent is going to be mandatory in them.
The stability control part of DSC works and you will never even know it's on until you need it to get your sorry out of control boot out of trouble.
Guess if ya only use one, the others will last longer there by saving money spent on brake pads.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
So crashton.................can you answer the questions?
The biggest complaint I have with folks like you and crashton are the very broad statements to not get DSC and then complain only about the universally agreed upon lousy traction control which is only a part of the system.
Have you ever seen the videos of the SUV's loosing control after making an emergency lane change...........and now DSC or it's equivalent is going to be mandatory in them.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
So.........ever driven a car with turning brakes?
And why wouldn't a MINI need it? They are still subject to the laws of physics.
And I still can't believe you are still so against DSC without even having it on your car..........
And why wouldn't a MINI need it? They are still subject to the laws of physics.
And I still can't believe you are still so against DSC without even having it on your car..........
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,442
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, Ca
A footnote to the audi ad... the cable was there for safety so the car would not slip back down the ramp, it was not pulling the car up the ski jump. The car drove up the jump under its own power, a fairly remarkable feat. This ad is actually a recreation of an original record-setting moment done with a much older audi sedan (circa 1986).
Here are more details of the A6 doing its backwards Eddy the Eagle:
http://fourtitude.rely.net/cgi-bin/a...iew.cgi/6/1102
And here is a link to the original commercial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHH-726_8lA
Marketing trickery is certainly rampant but it is not the case here.
Here are more details of the A6 doing its backwards Eddy the Eagle:
http://fourtitude.rely.net/cgi-bin/a...iew.cgi/6/1102
And here is a link to the original commercial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHH-726_8lA
Marketing trickery is certainly rampant but it is not the case here.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
From: NJ, USA
Back to the snow-covered hill climbing topic ...
Does LSD help, hinder or do nothing at all (all else equal, snow tires, DSC on or off) to climb a snow-covered or ice-covered, or both, hill? I probabably ignorantly imagine it works like AWD, just w/ 2 wheels instead of 4.
Opinions from those w/ actual experience?
PS Is it really more fun to drive a MINI w/ LSD on the (dry) street (backroad), or is it probably unnoticeable for the "recreational daily driver?" Randy of M7 Tuning is paraphrased (I think) as saying driving w/o LSD just requires more attn to the throttle, less mashing and maybe waiting a tad more at the exit of a turn before hitting the throttle - so less acceleration during/out of a turn. Does that make it less fun? Enough to notice/worry about for a recreational daily driver?
Opinions from those w/ actual experience?
PS Is it really more fun to drive a MINI w/ LSD on the (dry) street (backroad), or is it probably unnoticeable for the "recreational daily driver?" Randy of M7 Tuning is paraphrased (I think) as saying driving w/o LSD just requires more attn to the throttle, less mashing and maybe waiting a tad more at the exit of a turn before hitting the throttle - so less acceleration during/out of a turn. Does that make it less fun? Enough to notice/worry about for a recreational daily driver?
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
You mean someone who has driven the same snow/ice covered hill, in the same conditions, in an R56 MCS with LSD and one without LSD?
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
From: NJ, USA
Thanks!
Thanks r56mini!
Robin, Point well-taken. The essential question regards actual experience comparing an R56S w/ LSD, and one w/o, in ordinary, but spirited street/road driving. Forget the part of the question about the same tires, DSC, hill, snow-covered hill, etc. I am wondering what someone would predict for winter hills, safety and "fun factor," based on actual experience/ comparison (not speculation). Thanks.
TK
Robin, Point well-taken. The essential question regards actual experience comparing an R56S w/ LSD, and one w/o, in ordinary, but spirited street/road driving. Forget the part of the question about the same tires, DSC, hill, snow-covered hill, etc. I am wondering what someone would predict for winter hills, safety and "fun factor," based on actual experience/ comparison (not speculation). Thanks.
TK
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
Robin, Point well-taken. The essential question regards actual experience comparing an R56S w/ LSD, and one w/o, in ordinary, but spirited street/road driving. Forget the part of the question about the same tires, DSC, hill, snow-covered hill, etc. I am wondering what someone would predict for winter hills, safety and "fun factor," based on actual experience/ comparison (not speculation). Thanks.
TK
TK
What you are saying is that you only want speculation about snow from those who have actually driven LSD & no LSD in dry conditions.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
Thanks r56mini!
Robin, Point well-taken. The essential question regards actual experience comparing an R56S w/ LSD, and one w/o, in ordinary, but spirited street/road driving. Forget the part of the question about the same tires, DSC, hill, snow-covered hill, etc. I am wondering what someone would predict for winter hills, safety and "fun factor," based on actual experience/ comparison (not speculation). Thanks.
TK
Robin, Point well-taken. The essential question regards actual experience comparing an R56S w/ LSD, and one w/o, in ordinary, but spirited street/road driving. Forget the part of the question about the same tires, DSC, hill, snow-covered hill, etc. I am wondering what someone would predict for winter hills, safety and "fun factor," based on actual experience/ comparison (not speculation). Thanks.
TK
Initially the LSD would give you better performance at the snow covered hill, but as the conditions worsened the LSD would actually hinder your accent by spinning both front wheels and taking away any capability of changing direction.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
The much hated ASTC should prevent that from happening. In theory, LSD should reduce the amount of intervention from ASTC.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 558
Likes: 0
From: Lanham, MD
Back to the original question: Why were the rpms reading 1200-1500rpm, yet my speedo reads 2-3mph? Well, the speed of the car is determined by the speed of the rear wheels. Your front wheels were spinning, hence the high rpms, but you were really only going 2-3mph, because your rear wheels were going that fast.
How did I find this out? E-brake drifts. Or pull the e-brake at a stop and dump the clutch, front tires spin, but you go 0mph.
How did I find this out? E-brake drifts. Or pull the e-brake at a stop and dump the clutch, front tires spin, but you go 0mph.
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