Modern filters are taking out particles down to 1 to 10 microns (1/1000 to 1/100 of a millimeter). If that isn't microscopic, your eyes are much better than mine.

The telling evidence regarding the dipersant issue is going to be how much sludge builds up in the oilpan in a 3000 mile interval car versus a 15000 mile interval car. I'll check mine next time I get a chance.

 

What everybody seems to be forgetting is that it's fun to have your dad/brother/friend come round one weekend every 5-7K miles while you jack up the car and change your oil, wash you K&N air filter, rotate your tires* and inspect the brakepads.

*Actually I rotate every 2K as I do like the tires to last more than 10K.

 

I believe the contaminates that dneal is refering to are mostly chemical, and not particulate in nature.

 

This is twice you've selectively quoted my posts. Try to understand my point (like djam43 did) instead of just trying to score a point.

At this point I have no idea what your argument is. I'm not a "change every 3k" guy btw.

 

I stand corrected, I looked at the newer MSDS's and they are all now synthetic. In the past I know I saw otherwise on a couple of them that I looked at, that may have been just for Mobil 1 EP though as that was the M1 oil that really was in question about being fully synthetic.

 

Surfblue says:
I'll say it again...go find a set of those little plastic two step up Protech ramps (I think it's www.protech.com). They CLEAR your car and you just drive it right up and slide your oil collection/storage pan under the car. No jacking up necessary. I am surprised at how many of you guys APPEAR (correct me if I'm wrong...like I have to ask to be correct here! LOL) to go pay some dunce at Jiffy Lube to change your oil/molest your car. This is NOT brain surgery. Do any of you guys even work on your cars/this car/any car/ever??? Oil and filter changes are the top of the list for easy stuff to do on your car. If you DIY it, it doesn't cost you any more, probably LESS than paying some ******* at an oil change place to screw around with your car when you wait and pay to have it done at 12k. Get it? DIY means you save enough by not paying mister eight bucks an hour, so you can change your oil more often. IT'S REAL SIMPLE TO DO!!! Hey, a buddy of mine just had his HOOD fly open and TRASH HIS CAR after having an oil change place do his oil...because he didn't have the time to DIY. And this is a guy who maintains three Ferraris he owns for FUN. As to the oil and filter change... A guy named Robin even spelled it all out in another thread, showing photos and all on how to change an 07's oil and filter.
While I will do some distance driving, my 07 sees a fair amount of short hop driving, no commute driving, and when I read about the 2000 degree temps mentioned in this string, I ask you to revert back to my long post about that extra NICKEL you're spending every 100 miles changing your oil DIY at 5k instead of 12k. It's so little money, it's hard to believe this string is going on. And here I am in it again. Good night and everybody have a nice weekend Fri Sat Sun leading up to next Wednesday and the FOURTH OF JULY.

 

I know a tribologist (lubrication expert). I asked him one day about car oil changes. He said his boss changes his oil as soon as it becomes discolored.

 

I'm curious, I think I'm going to change my oil soon and get it tested. Any recommendation where so we can all use the same place to compare results?

 

I've talked in the last 24 hours with two men who are far more knowledgeable than me about things automotive, and BOTH just went NO WAY on the concept of running your full synth oil in a turbo mini engine to twelve grand and beyond. One is an automotive instructor, the other a multifaceted engineer. BOTH felt that five grand mileage changes were prudent, given the heat, and the fact that the filter itself will get so funky. Just FYI. I would trust any machine I own to these two.

"We take our own chances and pay our own dues" - Kris Kristofferson

"Redline? What redline? MY CAR doesn't have a redline!" - The lady of the house (after she put a valve through a piston in my vintage VW bug)

 

For the record I think 12k, a year or when indicated will be often enough but I'm just going to get mine tested to get a baseline short interval. I may test the 12 month old oil in 1 or 2 other low milage cars also. Should be interesting.

I assume the new MINI should set the oil interval the same way this BMW does. Worked out fine for him.

http://tedserbinski.com/2006/04/03/h...aybe_too_often

 

That is true, but it's a PITA to find a place in our area to properly dispose of the used oil. Most gas stations don't take it, and the nearest haz waste center is 15 miles away.

 

Isn't that a good excuse to go motoring?

 

I apologize if you felt like I was picking on you. I thought we were holding an intelligent discussion from differing view points.

Then, onto another subject..... How 'bout them Mets?

 

Yes. BG Oil products will do testing. http://www.bgprod.com/products/engineoil.html

They will send you an oil sampling kit with mailer and then return the oil results to you after they get the sample from you. I haven't done it in a while, so I don't know the cost anymore.

 

I didn't think of that. I think you're right!

 

I'm a Cardinals fan

I didn't think you were picking on me. I was talking about the claim that higher levels of engine wear occur during the first 3000 miles after an oil change, and therefore changing your oil every 3k leads to shorter engine life. That's ridiculous, and the "empirical" data used to reach that conclusion ignore other factors.

I was frustrated when you took a portion of my post out of context and asked about oil filters... As it went along, I realized I had no idea what your point was, other than refuting portions of my post. Maybe it's the use of emoticons that made me think that maybe you were just being a smartass. dunno.

Back to the topic though... oil filters only get down to about 15 microns with any efficiency, and there are contaminates (iron, copper, zinc, etc...) that remain suspended in the oil regardless of the filter. Defining them as chemical or particulate is semantic.

 

About 3k oil changes. I have a 99 CR-V in addition to my new mini. The CR-V has had dino oil changes every 3k miles. It should then have experienced the worst engine wear. I doubt it. Looking in the valve cover the engine looks new. It doesn't use a drop of oil between changes still after about 95K miles, the stick still registering full after 3k miles and the engine drives like the day I bought it. Now with the mini I'm planning 5K on synthetic and may switch the CR-V to synthetic and bump its interval up to 5K.

 

Pepboys and Autozone will take used oil.

 

isnt there some law, if those autozone type places sell oil, they must take back used oil?

 

We're lucky in TX PepBoys, Auto Zones, etc all have tanks in their back rooms if you ask, and take used oil. I've even stopped at a couple Jiffy Lube places and they let me dump in their tanks. Then there's also used oil collection bins at a lot of fire stations.

 

That would vary by state. I think TX requires anyone selling a certain amount of new oil to take used oil and filters (but I couldn't find a reference to back that up in 20 seconds of google searching)

 

Outstanding lab, phenomenal service ...I wouldn't use anyone else!

(I have no connection or interest in Blackstone other than being a very satisfied customer)

Blackstone Laboratories
4929 South Lafayette Street
Fort Wayne, IN 46806-2211

 

Kragen's too, if they're in your area. IF none of those three are near you, I bet if you call around to various auto parts places you DO have, you'll find one that takes your used oil and filters. You gotta ask.
I'm gettin old. I remember when LOTS of gas stations took it, for free. Now the ones that do want to charge you, so they're making money on both ends of the deal. Hmmmm

 

Yes, I found them and since they offer free test kits and only charge to do the analysis ($22.50, +$10 for TBN that measures the active additive present in the oil) I'll give them a try first.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

My point is simply that the current chemistry of oil formulation, physical design of filters and the research studies on resulting component wear all point to the safety of 15,000 miles sevice intervals based on engine operating conditions.


Your assessment is 100% correct. And my wife will substantiate that as well!

I agree with all of your statements except for the micron level. I believe that the BMW/MINI filters are manufactured by Mahle. Their advertised filtration is 2 micron,which I believe is smaller than any thin film clearances between moving parts. At 15 micron I certainly would start to get concerned.