R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+) MINI Cooper and Cooper S (R56) hatchback discussion.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

R56 Buying MCS or Mustang GT Thoughts?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #76  
Old 05-26-2007 | 09:18 AM
chows4us's Avatar
chows4us
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by nrc
Come on. Why do people put racing stripes on MINIs? Why does the new S have a fake hood scoop? Why do people put Monte Carlo Rally stickers on MINIs when they're not the real thing?
All good questions Questions I can never figure out and I know this will irritate some people. It's one thing to make the car uniquely yours ... its another thing to just copycat the past or imitate it. Everyone has their own tastes and that is OK ... these are just my personal opinions. YMMV

Why do people put racing stripes on MINIs?

I never understood that. There is a reason, a real reason, while "racing stripes" where first put on cars. I believe, a single stripe down the hood (and if I am wrong, someone can correct met), to help the driver keep the car in line. I have always thought adding a "racing stripe" to a non-racing car was a bit ... strange

I happened to watch the The Italian Job before knowing what a MINI was and remember thinking ... cute car ... loose the fake stripes.

When we went to buy a car, off the lot, seeing them in person I was convinced, and this is ONLY my opinion, they looked out of place on this cute car. My MINI ... no stripes ...

Why does the new S have a fake hood scoop?

Check some threads ... I believe they have found it to be functional in keeping down under bonnet temps. But while we are on that subject ... how about ...

Fake burble?

This is found incredible amusing. When I think of burble, I think of unburnt gas from a Hemi with headers and the ground shaking or Funny Cars in the 1960s and the earthquakes around them. Finding that BMW added fake burble to 05 cars I found ... amusing I know some ppl love it but again ... imitation of the real thing. Maybe they have never experienced the real thing (a waste of gas).

I can just image that guy's hemi (426) who I rode in with some real burble saying: "Man, that burble isn't loud enough ... I gotta add some fake burble" ... but apparantly BMW has decided the masses do not want ... fake burble.

Why do people put Monte Carlo Rally stickers on MINIs when they're not the real thing?

Now you asked that of the wrong person Since my car was a MC40

Now, in general, those stickers came from the dealer in commeration of an event. That is ENTIRELY different than imitating something from the past. I was exactly going to rip out the "signed" metal plate inside since it was simply a tribute to Paddy Hopkirk's achievement. It wasn't a fake anything.

However, the first thing we had done, before leaving the dealer lot, was to have those MC40 Rallye stickers taken off. However, I DID end up have very unique, custom made graphics that nobody else had ... no imitations of someone elses old stuff. Like I said, nothing wrong with youifications and there are some nice MINI graphics out their with original work.

Again, this is just my personal opinion. YMMV and everyone's tastes are different. I was just trying to find out the motivation of the poster in imitating a 40 year old cars graphics (GT350) on a modern car. Maybe its flattery?
 
  #77  
Old 05-26-2007 | 09:42 AM
Gloves's Avatar
Gloves
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Fremont, CA
Originally Posted by ScottRiqui
We know from Chow's post that the 230hp number for the MINI is coming from a pulley swap and ECU tune (and most likely an intake/exhaust as well), but what exactly are you doing to the 2005 Mustang GT to go from 300hp to 575hp?? I can't imagine it's anywhere near as cheap/simple as the MINI mods. Centrifugal supercharger, perhaps?
I'm just using the Whipple Superchager i'm plainning on
adding to my ride. Quoted $7,000 installed. There are
centrifugal superchargers and twin turbo kits that
produce more. Whipple claims with their kit and no other
mods brings you to that HP.

I understand the Pulley install is cheap, a tune could be
free if you know someone who has it and exhaust isn't
more than $700. The MINI as UKDragon said, the MINI
is much cheaper to mod. I don't think there was any
argument there.

More numbers:
Mustang GT weight distribution:
Front 53.6% Back 46.4%

Mini Cooper S weight distribution:
Front 63% Back 37%

(i'm not claiming the Mustang GT can out turn the
Cooper S, because it can't.)

Skuzzy,
575 is via forced induction. The same way the MINI
Cooper S gets just about the same gas mileage as the
Justa. But once you "step on it" my gas mileage (same
as the S) goes way down. When stepping on it you slam
more air and gas into your cylinders.

Yes, I'll be going to premium fuel, every supercharged
car should be using it. I ride my bike to work 4 days a
week and bring out my car on the weekends. This is to
save all the commuting gas and rubber for fun on the
weekends instead of commuting. Also, i like the
exercise.
 
  #78  
Old 05-26-2007 | 10:04 AM
chows4us's Avatar
chows4us
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Gloves
Let's keep this friendly, i'm not trying to down talk the MINI at all! UKDragon and I never negativly speak about each other's rides.

Best of all I liked crunching those numbers. Let's do some more
Sorry, I was not talking down to the mustang. You posted some info but maybe were not aware of the latest developments

Best of Luck Gloves ...
 

Last edited by chows4us; 05-27-2007 at 06:46 PM.
  #79  
Old 05-26-2007 | 11:08 AM
grekal's Avatar
grekal
1st Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
JDM Stage II Muzzy 445 BHP 4600cc(+$6500) -> 10cc/BHP
MCS 172 BHP 1600cc -> 9cc/BHP

Mini Engine more efficient, but carries too much weight. Get the Mini down to 1300lbs like the original mini and it will really fly.

Muzzy with accelleration (11.5s/qtr ml) and suspensin mods($2000) will leave MCS in the dust! Get rid of the weight and now you have a competition.

Muzzy is hardly ever matched on the road can be boring. MCS is a match for most cars and for driving in the city a lot of fun.

Just to reiterate an earlier post... buy both: one for the strip and road course, the other for autox https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...php?photo=2512.

GT500 coupe $60K
 
Attached Thumbnails Buying MCS or Mustang GT   Thoughts?-cimg0251a.jpg   Buying MCS or Mustang GT   Thoughts?-dscf0154a.jpg   Buying MCS or Mustang GT   Thoughts?-saleenca.jpg  

Last edited by grekal; 05-27-2007 at 12:12 PM.
  #80  
Old 05-27-2007 | 04:21 AM
Gloves's Avatar
Gloves
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Fremont, CA
Good Stuff Chows4us.

The new GT 500 KR is estimated at $57,000. What a sweet car that would be to own. (Costs more than twice the base GT tho.)

Look at this! I didn't know there were numbers to track how well a car turns!
SKIDPAD! (Wikipedia deffinition)
I found this while reading an ad for a z06 in the current issue of Road and Track

So the battle for the turing can be demonstrated in numbers.


Mustang GT
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g (per CarandDriver.com)

MINI Cooper S

Roadholding, 200 ft skidpad : 0.85 g
Roadholding, 200 ft skidpad : 0.91 g (per mondern racer)
Roadholding, Skid Pad (g-force): 0.88 g (per edmunds Inside)
Roadholding, 200 ft. skid pad MINI Cooper S 0.87g (per is-it-a-lemon.com [Car and driver 2002])
Couldn't find a 300 ft. skidpad

Interesting! The MINI justa has a skidpad of 0.79g (difference of .08g according to Car and driver 2002)
 
  #81  
Old 05-27-2007 | 05:08 AM
chows4us's Avatar
chows4us
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Gloves
The new GT 500 KR is estimated at $57,000.
65K
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../overview.html

Originally Posted by Gloves
Look at this! I didn't know there were numbers to track how well a car turns!
There are many factors in determining how well a car handles and skidplad numbers are just part of the overall equation. After all, the ability to turn without skidding is just a means to an end to say a slalom.

If you really dont know about this stuff and like statistics, I suggest you first read this article ... America's Best Handling Car

Even the vaunted Z06 does poorly. MINI GP in the middle of the pack with a big difference between it and the top of the line

BTW, you got to compare apples to apples. 200' skidpad to 200' skidpad.

If you really want to learn about numbers, read the MT article where there are many different handling test.
 

Last edited by chows4us; 05-27-2007 at 06:47 PM.
  #82  
Old 05-27-2007 | 09:46 AM
rkw's Avatar
rkw
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,233
Likes: 123
From: San Francisco
Originally Posted by chows4us
BTW, you got to compare apples to apples. 200' skidpad to 200' skidpad.
What he said. Comparing 200' to 300' skidpads is like comparing 0-60 to 0-40 acceleration times.
 
  #83  
Old 05-27-2007 | 11:55 AM
r56mini's Avatar
r56mini
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 0
From: home
I thought they were called 'racing stripes'. Only the "real race cars" should have them. Sports cars do not qualify as race cars no matter how much power they have or how expensive they are. Viper is still a street car and shouldn't have those stripes.
I wear Discovery channel team uniform when I ride my bicycle. I should be arrested.
 
  #84  
Old 05-27-2007 | 12:25 PM
chows4us's Avatar
chows4us
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by r56mini
I thought they were called 'racing stripes'. Only the "real race cars" should have them. Sports cars do not qualify as race cars no matter how much power they have or how expensive they are. Viper is still a street car and shouldn't have those stripes.
I agree 100% with what you said.

Shelby Cobras (real ones), had legitimates racing stripes. They raced and won against the Corvettes of the time.

Shelby GT350s also had legitimate racing stripes ... the cars were built to race.

Vipers? ... I do not believe the intention of vipers was to make them to race so no, I don't believe they should have them

IMO there is only one exception to this "rule". The FIA used to require car makers to build "so many" cars for homogulation. I dunno if that still exists. So they may say to Ferrari, for example, you got to build 500 street legal samples to go racing your GTO ... and hence the racing stripe on some Ferraris ... I know Lotus did the same thing and Porsche GT3s are the same idea. But these are very limited edition cars that are basically race ready ... not the normal "sports car" meant for the street.
 
  #85  
Old 05-27-2007 | 12:56 PM
r56mini's Avatar
r56mini
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 0
From: home
Damn, I was being sarcastic and you stayed very calm in your response. I am honestly impressed.
 
  #86  
Old 05-27-2007 | 01:15 PM
rkw's Avatar
rkw
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,233
Likes: 123
From: San Francisco
But how do you define a "racing" stripe? They are just decoration. Some race cars have stripes and some don't. To call a racing stripe "legitimate" only makes sense if cars are not allowed to race without stripes of a certain specification.

Shelby Cobras had a certain style of stripe that they used as sort of an identifying trademark. I can see there is a certain fakeness to copying them, but what the heck it is just styling. I liked Gabe's commentary about coming to terms with the R56 non-functional hood scoop. He said many of the cars we drive are caricatures of race cars, with scoops, spoilers, stripes etc.
 
  #87  
Old 05-27-2007 | 03:57 PM
chows4us's Avatar
chows4us
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by rkw
But how do you define a "racing" stripe? They are just decoration. Some race cars have stripes and some don't. To call a racing stripe "legitimate" only makes sense if cars are not allowed to race without stripes of a certain specification.

... I liked Gabe's commentary about coming to terms with the R56 non-functional hood scoop. He said many of the cars we drive are caricatures of race cars, with scoops, spoilers, stripes etc.
I meant "legitimate" only in the sense it had a "function" ... a real reason to exist. From WIKI ...

Racing cars of the 1950s and 1960s often had stripes, called racing stripes, applied to the paintwork. This was done in order to ensure that the driver knew the direction of the car in the event of a spin out on the track. ... In some cases, the stripes were applied asymmetrically and were used to identify on which side of the race car the driver was situated.

legitimate function ...

And Shelby was a big factor ...

" ... were applied to high-performance prototype automobiles built as racecars by Briggs Cunningham ... so that spectators could identify the team's automobiles readily during races. The tradition was followed by Carroll Shelby on his Cobra ... Recently the striping was used on the Dodge Viper by Carroll Shelby, starting a revival in Europe, so among many who have no knowledge of the history, they sometimes are referred to as Viper Stripes."

Again, a function for racing.

But now here is the real issue as I was referring it to ...

"Go-faster stripes (or racing stripes) is a term now used, usually in a derogatory or derisive way, to refer to an imitative decoration applied to cars to make them appear to be modified for extra speed. ..."

As to "caricatures of race cars", I would agree with that observation as a comment. And imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (or so they say). However, I would add two things trying to be objective ...
  1. Your still going to get the derogatory references. Many ppl on this board refer to the "fart cans" on japanese cars ... derogatory. That is no different that seeing racing stripes on any car and thinking derogatory. As I wrote, when I first saw The Italian Job, never seeing the new MINI before, the first thought in my brain was ... "Cute car ... lose the fake stripes"
  2. I would prefer function over form ... or the form flows from the function. Of course, everyone is different and some like form over function. Personal preferences and that might be where Gabe is coming from. However, you do have a choice. I chose to not add "racing stripes" but that is just my opinion. Then again, I did add sidestripes but unique ones, custom made that I had created.
 

Last edited by chows4us; 05-27-2007 at 06:48 PM.
  #88  
Old 05-27-2007 | 06:31 PM
MotorMouth's Avatar
MotorMouth
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,821
Likes: 1
From: Mililani,Hawaii
Originally Posted by chows4us
knew the direction of the car in the event of a spin out on the track.
what?! did the seats swivel 360? did they not wear seat belts? I don't get it. Usually (and I can't think of an exception other than lovers lane) if I look straight ahead when in the seat - that is the direction the car is pointed..
It's not like being tumbled under water and not knowing which way is up..

so that spectators could identify the team's automobiles readily during races.
same reason for the contrasting roof on a MINI.
 

Last edited by MotorMouth; 05-27-2007 at 06:34 PM.
  #89  
Old 05-27-2007 | 08:45 PM
eny mini
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: NorCal
OK, I'm old and a female. But I grew up/teen person in the mid 70"s. Guys had Challengers, Road Runners, Camaros, And the most fun was a "71 Torino, baby blue convertable with a white top. We used to play Bullit in SF. And one friend had rebuilt a complete Shelby '65 stang. Changed lanes on University Ave in Berkeley CA while going 50 MPH and you didn't even feel it. And there were the 454's,Nova, (mom's car) etc. It was a great time.
I'm married to a guy who grew up in Europe with all the twisty masters like Audi, BMW, Porshe, MG, Peugeot, even FixItAgainTony. Comparing these car types is trying to decide between Cantalopes and Lemons. I would love to get a Shelby Mustang. There is nothing like feeling the raw torque as the entire chassis rises up for a few milliseconds before the drivetrain kicks in. I am an American Girl. It is awesome. But do I want to drive on Highway 1 from the Oregon Coast to San Francisco in it? No.
I love my BMW designed MINI. I'd hate it with a SC. The Turbo gives it that low end that all "rice rocket" vehicles lackunless of course they are turbocharged. We had a 94 del Slow VTEC DOHC but modded to the max. JR Supercharger, total suspension mods, slotted and drilled brakes, and a performance clutch (forget what the level it was), pulley mod, Greddy catback and header, on and on. Loved that car to pieces. But it ever had the low end our 2007 CooperS has.
So it really comes down to your wants and needs. I wish I was wealthy and could get a real US muscle car, a MINI, and a Honda Civic S (especially with the new body). But hey, we all have to make choices.

Good Luck.
 
  #90  
Old 05-27-2007 | 10:03 PM
Gloves's Avatar
Gloves
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Fremont, CA
Originally Posted by chows4us
BTW, you got to compare apples to apples. 200' skidpad to 200' skidpad.
You're right. I was looking for a 300' skidpad for the mini, (the standard test per Wikipidia)

Results from the same website:

Mustang GT
200 ft skidpad: 0.87 g

MINI Cooper S
200 ft skidpad: 0.91 g

Results per www.modernracer.com

Those were more of the results I expected.

--------------------------------------------------

SHELPBY STRIPES.
You got me stared.

I believe they are officially called Le Mans stripes unless
on a Shelby. Shelby made his stripes uniquely special by
growing in width as it got to the middle of the car (roof)
and smaller again as it reached the trunk. View pictures
of the new GT 500.

Shelby LeMans Stripes Specs:
http://www.nvsaac.com/photogallery/i...ns_stripes.jpg

I'm not so much a Mustang lover as much as a Shelby
appreciatior. Shelby took an ordinary Mustang and
modded it (just like each of you have your MINIs, a little
style upgrade, a little performance upgrade)

My all time favorite car is the 427 cobra, and second is
the '67 GT 500. Not because it's the fastest car in the
day (because it wasn't) but because of it's style. (the
same reason you own a mini, style.)

So I took everything I loved about the '67 Cobra and
applied it to my own "Shelby inspired machine" You
could probably even call it a concept replica.

I knew Ford wouldn't make a good looking Cobra (and
they didn't) but they did deliver on the performance side.


Step 1. Get the hood look. (Functional GTR Ram air
hood by RK sport is close enough) Also add nice hood
pins. (Necessary to keep my hood from shaking
uncontrollably at speeds faster than 95mph.)

Step 2.
Rear window scoops. Removing the rear
windows makes it look even more fast-back and beefier
(less hollow). Left off the door scoops, I didn't like the
look on the new GT. Graphic design rule: "If if doesn't
add to the design, leave it out."

Step 3.
Center Fogs.

Step 4.
PAINT the stripes, now days all stripes seem to
be vinyl (nothing wrong with that on the MINI) but the
original Shelbys and other cars of the area were painted.
Today the GT 500 and Dodge Viper SRT-10 has vinyl
stripes (from what I seen at the dealers), not cooler for
cars that cost $50,000+ MINI spared no expense when
masking off each roof and painting 2 colors on you car.
+1 MINI!

I chose to go with my own stripes because the new
Mustang is bigger than the old ones and I wanted stripes
that fit the car. These are my specified measurements
to the painter:

11.125" x 1.75" x 11.125"

Step 5.
Give it Shelby power (add a supercharger since
changing engine size is illegal in CA) [pending
completion]

Step 6.
Side stripes. Once done withe the power, I'll
name it in stripes along the door panels. Something like
"GT 575".

Notice Large bling-bling rims and booming stereos
weren't part of the classic inspired modifications. =)
 
  #91  
Old 06-03-2007 | 06:07 AM
pyratio's Avatar
pyratio
Coordinator :: Hawaii MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Texas - U.S.A.
stripes

--So since I've raced my MINI in an event and have modded my car does that mean that she earned her bonnet stripes?

They should have put "poser" and "ricy" in wikipedia too because I think that was what they were eluding to. Like the Lancer with the EVO hood who tries to keep up with me on the Freeway. I especially love the quad exhaust pipes sticking out of the 4 cylinder Honda Civic. Almost as much as I love the Scion xBs with 14 inch spinny rims. Hilarious!

~p



Originally Posted by chows4us
All good questions Questions I can never figure out and I know this will irritate some people. It's one thing to make the car uniquely yours ... its another thing to just copycat the past or imitate it. Everyone has their own tastes and that is OK ... these are just my personal opinions. YMMV

Why do people put racing stripes on MINIs?

I never understood that. There is a reason, a real reason, while "racing stripes" where first put on cars. I believe, a single stripe down the hood (and if I am wrong, someone can correct met), to help the driver keep the car in line. I have always thought adding a "racing stripe" to a non-racing car was a bit ... strange

I happened to watch the The Italian Job before knowing what a MINI was and remember thinking ... cute car ... loose the fake stripes.

When we went to buy a car, off the lot, seeing them in person I was convinced, and this is ONLY my opinion, they looked out of place on this cute car. My MINI ... no stripes ...

Why does the new S have a fake hood scoop?

Check some threads ... I believe they have found it to be functional in keeping down under bonnet temps. But while we are on that subject ... how about ...

Fake burble?

This is found incredible amusing. When I think of burble, I think of unburnt gas from a Hemi with headers and the ground shaking or Funny Cars in the 1960s and the earthquakes around them. Finding that BMW added fake burble to 05 cars I found ... amusing I know some ppl love it but again ... imitation of the real thing. Maybe they have never experienced the real thing (a waste of gas).

I can just image that guy's hemi (426) who I rode in with some real burble saying: "Man, that burble isn't loud enough ... I gotta add some fake burble" ... but apparantly BMW has decided the masses do not want ... fake burble.

Why do people put Monte Carlo Rally stickers on MINIs when they're not the real thing?

Now you asked that of the wrong person Since my car was a MC40

Now, in general, those stickers came from the dealer in commeration of an event. That is ENTIRELY different than imitating something from the past. I was exactly going to rip out the "signed" metal plate inside since it was simply a tribute to Paddy Hopkirk's achievement. It wasn't a fake anything.

However, the first thing we had done, before leaving the dealer lot, was to have those MC40 Rallye stickers taken off. However, I DID end up have very unique, custom made graphics that nobody else had ... no imitations of someone elses old stuff. Like I said, nothing wrong with youifications and there are some nice MINI graphics out their with original work.

Again, this is just my personal opinion. YMMV and everyone's tastes are different. I was just trying to find out the motivation of the poster in imitating a 40 year old cars graphics (GT350) on a modern car. Maybe its flattery?
 
  #92  
Old 06-03-2007 | 07:48 AM
chows4us's Avatar
chows4us
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by pyratio
--So since I've raced my MINI in an event and have modded my car does that mean that she earned her bonnet stripes?
That depends. Was it a real road race on a track (not autox and not DE or trackday)? If so ... then YES!!!!

YOU have earned your stripes You can proudly display them knowing that you have earned them!

BTW, I saw a new Corolla the other day pull by me on a highway with like this HUGE tailpipe. Scary stuff It was SO intimidating
 
  #93  
Old 06-04-2007 | 06:23 PM
pyratio's Avatar
pyratio
Coordinator :: Hawaii MINI Motoring Club
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Texas - U.S.A.
why yes they are real

--Yep it was a bonafide certified supercalifragilistic event held at Campbell Industrial Raceway park last spring. The last Superlap time attack race event in Honolulu. I was entry number 254F.

I had a lap timer setup on my visor, helmets required, and everything. The lap was comprised of:


1 sweeper
1 eigth mile straight
1 180 degree turn
2nd sweeper followed closely by
1 chicane - (which to date has killed 3 Lotus Elises)
1 off camber degree turn
1 downhill short

My pair up was with a Lotus Elise. Naturally I told him to go first as I was nearly bone stock during that event.

Wait how come Autox doesn't count? They're SCCA certified racers, right?

~p


Originally Posted by chows4us
That depends. Was it a real road race on a track (not autox and not DE or trackday)? If so ... then YES!!!!

YOU have earned your stripes You can proudly display them knowing that you have earned them!

BTW, I saw a new Corolla the other day pull by me on a highway with like this HUGE tailpipe. Scary stuff It was SO intimidating
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Alkaidovich
Interior/Exterior
68
01-30-2021 01:35 AM
Piano Man
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
14
09-29-2015 02:50 PM
minipopkart
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
2
08-13-2015 05:22 AM
nomar116
R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+)
6
08-10-2015 11:24 PM
xpunisherx
JCW Garage
8
08-10-2015 10:50 PM



Quick Reply: R56 Buying MCS or Mustang GT Thoughts?



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:11 PM.