First off, I know there have been many many many threads on this topic, but I searched and could not find what I was looking for. Perhaps I didn't use the correct key words, so I will welcome old threads that cover my issue if anyone responding perfers to do that.

I'd decided to order it, but now I'm leaning more and more back to my gut feeling of "keep that crap out of my car" Esspecially since they want $500 for it and I'm pretty sure I'll just turn it off anyway. But that leads me to my question.

What excactly does the DSC control? I know it controls the brakes individually and I believe it will pull timing as well, right? It has this hill climb assist... Anything else? Does it or could I make it remove the ABS as well? (this would be worth the $500 to me) How much weight does it add?

When I do turn it off by the button, is it absolutely off, or will it sneak itself back on if I'm doing reverse donuts or other excessive crazy/stupid, car thrashing stunts? I know some Mercedes have this issue. Not that I engage in such activities, but I do intend to track and autocross the car, and I don't want the car driving itself, as that's why I am buying one, it's a driver's car.

What it comes down to, after reading and reading, and even knowing a few guys who engineer these computers and swear that it's superior to everything including Michael Shumacher, makes me think that perhaps I should give it a chance...but that still will have to come with a $500 rebate or discount anywhere the dealership can find for me as this is still but a whim that I might remotely appreciate it. I'm just gonna have to trust the words of trusted friends until I get my hands on a car with this feature.

I really don't mean this to sound hateful towards DSC or anyone who likes it, just that I've had a few bad expiriences with older cars with such systems, but I know technology is always improving, so maybe it's time to give it a chance....

Thanks for any input/redirection.

 

1. Unless you never plan to drive your MINI in rain or snow, get it.
2. Turning off DSC does not turn off ABS.
3. The switch turns DSC completely off, no sneaking back on (until car is power cycled, anyway).
4. The vast majority of complaints about these things are actually against the ASC+T features, not the ones unique to DSC.
5. DSC = ASC+T (which is standard equipment, you can't avoid getting it in the R56) plus yaw control abilities, which are very much a big saver if you get into an unplanned slide or spin.
6. No, DSC cannot change the laws of physics, but it can do things that no driver in the world can do. Braking individual wheels, for starters!
7. It will be a good selling point if you ever sell your MINI, especially as it will be required government safety equipment in a few years.

 

IMHO, DSC is the most important safety advance since ABS. I've had it save my a** many times. Picture this: you are on the interstate and a truck pulls into your lane. You swerve, so that the truck does not run you over. You overcompensate with your steering. Instead of your Mini going out of control, DSC takes over by measuring your intended course (via a yaw sensor on the steering column), and modulates specific wheel brakes, and engine power to bring your Mini back under control.

It is also great on ice or wet roads, when you lose control in a turn. In short, it is like the hand of God, keeping you going where you intend on going. It works.

 

Can't speak for the Mini (not here yet ), but I have a 2001 Z06 Corvette that I have owned since new and it has the Active Handling(pretty much the same) and it makes a huge difference. At road Atlanta, a professional driver drove a few laps with and with out it being on, and with it on , his lap times were over 3 seconds faster(huge difference/track wise). It also has a Competitive mode that over-rides the traction control that you can turn off independently of the Active Handling(think Mini has a similar set up)that puts a little more control in your hands. The technology today is incredible. I'd say go for it. You can always turn it off if you want, but it will certainly make you a better driver then you are. My $.02.

 

I recommend it for safety.

When I autoX'd my Z3, I turned it off and it didn't turn itself on even when I spun out.

When I tracked my Z3, I left DSC on for safety but I still spun out on a warm sunny day. I trusted it too much. It can't override the laws of physics.

I left it out of my MINI because it's my personal decision.

 

What excactly does the DSC control?
-Adds yaw sensors, utilizes ABS and engine control functions

I know it controls the brakes individually and I believe it will pull timing as well, right?
-Yes, timing and fuel if it calculates that what you're trying to do with your right foot isn't consistant with getting the car to go where you're pointing it.

Does it or could I make it remove the ABS as well?
-No, but you could pull the ABS fuse...

How much weight does it add?
-Nil - the weight of the yaw sensors and a computer module

 

In my reading of the DSC threads I got the impression that the complaints were based on what people expected it to do, not from actually driving with in an R56. I've not heard a description of someone driving an R56 and having DSC actually interfere with their driving. It is all about, "if it is as bad as..."

I've only had my MCS since May 10th, but I've put about 100 miles of twisty country road driving on it since then (about 300 total miles). I've gone into some of the corners quite hot and never noticed the MINI doing anything squirrely. At these times I was not watching the dash, so don't know whether a DSC indicator lit up, or not. Disclaimer: I've never taken racing lessons, nor done autox.

 

I had the experience a few days ago of having someone in from of me pull into the exit ramp to get off the freeway, only to decide they wanted back on. At this point I was nearly beside him and I did a hard brake and hard left (no one in the left lane) and avoided the a**. I don't know if DSC came on or not as my heart was racing as someone nearly plowed into my new 07 MC, but I do know if I had tried that in my CR-V I would have spun around for sure. For my two cents if it engages once it may be the best money ever spent. As Edge points out the government is mandating stability control in all cars in 2012. The insurance institute also gives it rave remarks and says it is the one of the most important safety features.

In addition, I do like the hill-assist. It takes a little getting used to. I was used to giving some gas then letting lightly off the clutch to take off which disengages hill assist and you can start rolling backwards. But you'll learn to disengage the clutch to the engagement point then give it some gas and smoothly pull away without having to manipulate the handbrake. A great feature, IMO.

DSC was never a question for my order. I ordered a 07 MC manual. If DSC and MFSW were standard, I could have ordered a bone stock MC and been completely happy. As it is, I added, Hi-Fi, oak dash, sport seats, heated seats, center arm rest,...Which I guess is why those should be standard options are just that, options.

 

Oh yes....I need to call my insurance agent and see what sort of discounts I might be eligable from it. I was pretty sure it was only the computer, so the weight should not bother me. It's really just the idea of spending $500 more on the car than what I want. Resale is the other thing that might be nice, but then again, by then, it might be a super rare thing for a car without traction control of some sort....

Any idea how greatful I am to own a 2000 MX-5 without ABS?

This Mandate, there's no way that can apply to older cars. I have to say though, I'm really afraid that one day it will go so far as striping away my manual gearboxes out of all my cars to be replaced with wrechid autotragic transmissions......I don't care if it has paddle-shifters!

Anyway, back on track here, I do appreciate the input, and I think my insurance agent will have the final say on this one...I'm gonna call her right now!

 

I have state farm and they had no discounts for it. I wouldn't let discounts determine your need or lack therof for it. Is 500 really too much to spend for something that could save your life, particularly when desired it can be cut off? If I was trying to save 500, I'd have ditched other 'luxury' options like hi-fi, oak dash, heated seats, arm rest ect.

 

My issue is that it won't save my life if I turn it off each time I get into the car...

I don't have any luxury items desired that I can delete to get the $500 back. I'm even going to chance the normal headlights in favor of installing a quality aftermarket HID kit like the one I got for the Miata. The options I've chosen are all performance based, no heated seats, no armrest, etc.... All go, no show here. I need the LSD, Sport Suspension...stuff like that. The possibility of faster lap times is one thing to consider, but I still feel that takes away from a skilled driver, or creates a false sense of skill in a poor driver.

I think I'm leaning more and more away from the DSC as we still have the choice, and I just don't think it's time yet. When it's in there standard, and I have no choice, I'll prolly settle for it, but I just cannot justify the cost of something that I will more than likely shut off everytime I get in the car, or curse at it everytime I forget to turn it off....But that's what I like about this car, it's a driver's car. I'll buy a used Pheton or something ridiculous like that when I want something to take care of me.

 

Before you make a decision check out the videos in this link:

http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/esc.html

P.S. It's worth keeping in mind that the equivelent of DSC wil be standard on almost all new cars (mandatory by 2012) by the time you're ready to sell or trade in your now new R56. By then the advantages of electronic stability control will be understood by most folks and they'll be looking for it when they're ready to buy. Heck, when I went through the hassle of selling my last car one of the most frequently asked questions had to do with whether it had all the latest safety features (it had most - including its own version of DSC). And yes, this was an important selling point to the M.D. who ultimately bought it.

 

Not to go too far afield here, but why would this be? Is there some reason you WANT to lock up your tires?
I understand the 'nanny' issues of ASC/DSC, but not ABS.

(note, I've got a '91 and '92 miata - the '92 doesn't even have electric windows!)

 

I watched them, exactly why I have DSC. If it only engages once, it may be the best 500 you ever spent. If you want to track the car, you can turn it off, but for everyday driving where you also have to look out for others and not just the track, it is a great investment. Should be a standard item and I'm guessing MINI will go ahead and make it that in advance of the regulation to do so.

 

Sorry, but I find this kind of mentality just short of the one (or long, depending how you look at it) that makes people think they can safely drive drunk. There is simply no way you can control the car better, or react quicker, than DSC in those circumstances where it engages.

 

If you seriously plan to turn DSC off when you do your normal daily driving then don't order it. If another driver in your family will use the MINI then order the DSC and don't turn it off when they drive.

If you really think the car drives markedly better with DSC off then you need to consider attending driving school to learn about how to drive with more skill and to keep yourself in control of your MINI at all times.

Driving school helps for you to learn more and more about how to drive better and better, independently of owning a MINI. Find one with really good instructors and don't settle on attending once, go on a regular basis.

A really good driver can drive a MINI with DSC on much smoother and faster than most of use can drive with the same MINI and DSC off on a track or autocross course.

Having DSC on or off doesn't determine if you will have a safe or fun trip in your MINI. Only you decide that outcome. Drive safely at all times.

At autocross and on the track I always turn DSC off.

At all other times I always leave DSC on.

 

nization, you do realize that even if you don't specify DSC, you're still going to have to turn off ASC every time you start the car anyway, right? It's standard equipment on all R56s. DSC is just an upgrade to ASC - same toggle switch.

 

Good point, Edge.

 

Honestly, I'm prolly still hung up on excactly the 'nanny' thing. But occasionally, yes, I do want my tires to lock up when I want my tires to lock up. It's rare, but I do appreciate knowing where the threashold is for braking.

I can appreciate that, esspecially over an internet forum. I'm prolly coming off hot-headed and ignorant. It's not like I am, nor believe that I am a god-like driver. I believe I'd even implied that I know I'm just not ready to accept all the technologies being put/forced into cars. Seatbelts are great. airbags, on a street car, yeah. Drivers of day's old, and NASCAR don't like fuel injection. I cannot stand carburators. I just don't feel comfortable paying extra for a feature that I am still unfamiliar with, and in previous expiriences, has given me more trouble than it's prevented. I know those were older, less sophisticated cars and systems, but I cannot shake how scary it was when the car just would not go where I told it to, or would not just stop when It should have. Some of the comments here are implying to me that it is irrisponisible to buy or drive a car without such systems. I intend to drive my car safely at all times. Safely with or without DSC or any other such system.

What if this system we all will grow to rely on fails when it is needed?

Actually, that's an excellent point. I had no idea that it will still have ASC either way. What's the difference between these two systems?

 

ASC+T - detects wheelspin, cuts timing/throttle to 'remedy' the situation.
This is the demon people speak of when the car 'dies' trying to accelerate on a loose surface.
DSC - utilizes yaw sensors and steering angle sensor to determine if the car is going in the intended direction. Utilizes ABS and engine controls to address the situation.

If we could just turn off the ASC functions, I think many enthusiasts would be happier. A friend of mine has a Magnum, which allows you to disengage traction control in steps. I really liked that system, as it allows you to spin the tires a bit without cutting the throttle.

 

^^^^^

And there you have it. The ASC functions are the cause of 99% of the complaints. The biggest issue is under hard acceleration, where it cuts engine power as wheelspin starts to occur. For me, I just turn the system off right before I know I might cause that - like accelerating hard from a stop. One in particular is turning through an intersection in front of oncoming traffic. After resuming "normal" driving, I re-enable the system.

The uniquely DSC functions themselves are a godsend.

As Eric suggested, the ideal situation for many of us would be to disable the ASC functions yet leave the DSC-specific functions enabled at the same time. Unfortunately MINI doesn't give us that option... but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy DSC. If your MINI will ever see wet or snowy roads, I can't recommend it highly enough!

 

If the car wants to slide just for 12 inches and come back to the normal path, the DSC will go off.

 

I've been hearing this from enthusiasts of newer cars everywhere; "Why can't I just turn off traction control?" My G35 has stability and traction control, but you can't turn one off without killing the other. As soon as you hear the slightest "scrrrrr....." from the tires, the stupid traction control cuts the throttle! This is especially disturbing when taking a sharp U-turn and applying power to avoid oncoming traffic. It's especially annoying b/c I paid for an LSD, and the "Electronic Differential Lock" (part of most traction control systems) kicks in before the LSD can even do it's job! The biggest reason I drive with the system on is that the Stability Control (same thing as VDC) really has saved my *** several times.

Come on, are you going to tell me that you really drive slow enough around every blind turn? One day, there will be a deer, or a broken down car, or a homeless guy in the street, or something. Even the sharpest driver can't get everything right every time.

It only takes once for this system to save you from a large insurance bill, injuring yourself or others, or even ending your own life...or the life of your MINI.

Ultimately, do what makes you happy, just please consider those around you and those who will be in the car with you when you make your final choice.

 

I can spin a RWD faster than I can spin a FWD. It's a good thing DSC is standard on all BMW's as they are RWD unless of course AWD.

 

The DSC in the R56 is much friendlier than the R53... I own both cars, the R53's DSC cuts in very abrutly... not my R56 tho. The R56's DSC doesn't cut in until you're really in trouble. From a standing start, I can spin the tires a little and the DSC wont cut in. My point is, the R56's DSC doesn't spoil the fun while still protecting you when you're in trouble!
Once I went into a turn too hot, there were some mud/sand on the ground so the car oversteered, DSC saved me~
$500 well spent as easy as that. If you think that you will never need DSC, then ok its your choice, but hopefully you don't hit someone else.
This is like smoking, you think and you hope you never get lung cancer, but there is still a chance that you will...