R55 Mini S timing Chain Recall
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
That's an interesting article, but it says there is lower friction between 3000 and 15000 miles. Nothing about early changes being a bad idea, in fact it says 'other factors need to be considered.'
Not to hijack the thread, but even your owner's manual will tell you that harsh conditions warrant more frequent changes.
Not to hijack the thread, but even your owner's manual will tell you that harsh conditions warrant more frequent changes.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Welcome to the MINI crowd. Hope you enjoy the car.
I thnk you will find that we are enthusiasts first and foremost, and we know what happens with these cars if you treat them like a Toyota or honda. You will be very disappointed and will be paying outrageous repair costs.
A couple of points.
The N14 motor is problematic. Period. Without attentive care it will be a great frustration to you.
MINI originally published oil change intervals at 15k for my 2009 JCW. Now their recommendation is 10k miles for the same motor and for newer models. If things were ok before , then why the change?
MINI publishes that oil consumption is perfectly fine between intervals and within spec. Problem is many people don't ever bother to pull the dipstick. So if you wait 10k miles and never check your oil, you could be down maybe 2 qts on a 4.4 qt. system. Combine low oil with a timing chain issue and be out of warranty and good luck getting MINI to fix your motor for free.
Personally, I don't care if someone decides to wait the full 10k or decides 7.5k or even 5k.
So, I don't agree with you that this is paranoia because of the old school thoughts of changing oil every 3000 miles. It's because these motors, which aren't built by MINI or BMW, can be a PITA.
Oh, and euro standard of 10k or 15k change intervals is in place because of the high price they have to pay for oil and for costs of disposal. Taxes baby.
I thnk you will find that we are enthusiasts first and foremost, and we know what happens with these cars if you treat them like a Toyota or honda. You will be very disappointed and will be paying outrageous repair costs.
A couple of points.
The N14 motor is problematic. Period. Without attentive care it will be a great frustration to you.
MINI originally published oil change intervals at 15k for my 2009 JCW. Now their recommendation is 10k miles for the same motor and for newer models. If things were ok before , then why the change?
MINI publishes that oil consumption is perfectly fine between intervals and within spec. Problem is many people don't ever bother to pull the dipstick. So if you wait 10k miles and never check your oil, you could be down maybe 2 qts on a 4.4 qt. system. Combine low oil with a timing chain issue and be out of warranty and good luck getting MINI to fix your motor for free.
Personally, I don't care if someone decides to wait the full 10k or decides 7.5k or even 5k.
So, I don't agree with you that this is paranoia because of the old school thoughts of changing oil every 3000 miles. It's because these motors, which aren't built by MINI or BMW, can be a PITA.
Oh, and euro standard of 10k or 15k change intervals is in place because of the high price they have to pay for oil and for costs of disposal. Taxes baby.
Thanks for the warm welcome. I will take delivery of my new 2014 MCS Clubman in ice blue with black wheels, top, stripes and headlight housings on Tuesday. From what I have read it has the N18 motor. I guess time will tell if these will experience similar problems as the N14s. Any threads that cover N18 motor problems? I intend to follow OEM maintenance schedule to the T as have done with all my other cars. Regarding some of your other points I agree with some and dont agree with one, but continuing would be hijacking the thread. Thanks again.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 870
Likes: 14
From: Austin, TX
The way my Service Advisor put it regarding my car which had the extended maintenance plan and the change intervals were still 15K, was to have the plan cover the 15K mile change, but do one halfway in between, or about 7500 miles.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Yes, but that's a double the revenue scenario for the dealership isn't it? One oil change covered by Mini (which means the original buyer paid for it as part of hidden costs - no, I don't believe first three years maintenance is really free) and the interim one by the customer. With that said, the SA can't be trusted IMO due to conflict of interest.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 870
Likes: 14
From: Austin, TX
Yes, but that's a double the revenue scenario for the dealership isn't it? One oil change covered by Mini (which means the original buyer paid for it as part of hidden costs - no, I don't believe first three years maintenance is really free) and the interim one by the customer. With that said, the SA can't be trusted IMO due to conflict of interest.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
I guess you are right. Maybe I shouldn't be so suspicious! I will ask my SA and see if this is the common practice among Mini shops.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
The N14 motor is problematic. Period. Without attentive care it will be a great frustration to you.
MINI originally published oil change intervals at 15k for my 2009 JCW. Now their recommendation is 10k miles for the same motor and for newer models. If things were ok before , then why the change?
MINI publishes that oil consumption is perfectly fine between intervals and within spec. Problem is many people don't ever bother to pull the dipstick. So if you wait 10k miles and never check your oil, you could be down maybe 2 qts on a 4.4 qt. system. Combine low oil with a timing chain issue and be out of warranty and good luck getting MINI to fix your motor for free.
Excellent points and I would also throw into the mix that there are people that are pulling the dipstick and think they have more oil than they actually do because of the crappy dipstick design. I'd like to see how many dipsticks Craven Speed has sold. I have one because I tried and tried, but never could feel confident that I could get an accurate reading. I know it would be easy for people to take a pull with the OEM dipstick being down a quart or two and think they are fine because of oil in the dipstick tube getting dragged onto the dipstick bulb.
I understand that synthetic oil may maintain viscosity for 10K or longer, but what about carbon build up and coking in the turbo lines? Does the oil vaporize at a greater rate with age putting more oil vapor into the PCV and thus on the intake manifold to increase carbon build up there? Will older oil hold up to the heat in the turbo oil lines? What do the NOACK numbers look like as the oil ages?
I am sending off a sample of my oil with 5K on it (changed at the dealer who had overfilled it). I was planning on changing it now, but after reading about the viscosity issue with younger oil, I may go longer depending on what the oil analysis says. I plan on getting the TBN down, anything else I should be looking for?
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Crud do I have the rattle?
Bought my 08 MCS last summer, noticed it leaks oil and I need to put in a quart every six weeks or so. When it's low there is an awful rattle, until the engine warms up.
Is this the timing chain issue? I checked for a recall, there is none, will the local dealer know to take care of this under the campaign? I'm in the Austin TX metro area.
Is this the timing chain issue? I checked for a recall, there is none, will the local dealer know to take care of this under the campaign? I'm in the Austin TX metro area.
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
Likes: 1
From: Richardson, TX
Bought my 08 MCS last summer, noticed it leaks oil and I need to put in a quart every six weeks or so. When it's low there is an awful rattle, until the engine warms up.
Is this the timing chain issue? I checked for a recall, there is none, will the local dealer know to take care of this under the campaign? I'm in the Austin TX metro area.
Is this the timing chain issue? I checked for a recall, there is none, will the local dealer know to take care of this under the campaign? I'm in the Austin TX metro area.
I wish mine only ate a qt. every 6 weeks! The rattle you are hearing may well be timing chain. Take it to the dealer, had him your key, and just ask them to take a read for you. They will tell you on the spot if you are eligible for any timing tensioner or chain work. If you don't "qualify" it won't come up. If you are, you may get a free chain job. If you don't, I can recommend an independent shop in Austin to take it to that will do the repair far more reasonably I believe. This isn't a recall. They call it a service action or campaign.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 870
Likes: 14
From: Austin, TX
Bought my 08 MCS last summer, noticed it leaks oil and I need to put in a quart every six weeks or so. When it's low there is an awful rattle, until the engine warms up.
Is this the timing chain issue? I checked for a recall, there is none, will the local dealer know to take care of this under the campaign? I'm in the Austin TX metro area.
Is this the timing chain issue? I checked for a recall, there is none, will the local dealer know to take care of this under the campaign? I'm in the Austin TX metro area.
What I'd suggest is exactly what Mikewithamini said. Take it and have the key read, and if it doesn't show up on the computer, see if Mike will pull up the service history of the car so you have a date and mileage that the chain was replaced, at which point you can call MINI USA to see about them covering the second repair if it comes to that.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
I would hazard to say that it is an EXCEPTIONAL upgrade from stock.
The handle does hold the heat fairly well, so if you hands are sensitive to heat, you may want to use a glove when pulling it on a hot engine. I don't find it to be unbearable, though.
1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Middletown, CA
Just posted a minute ago, elsewhere about the timing chain thing. Took my 09 clubman S in for a service at 63k miles and they said a recall had finally been ordered on the timing chain and tensioner. Took care of it yesterday and this morning, no rattle.
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Found oil leak from tensioner bolt. Called MINI of North Scottsdale and my Service Advisor checked my VIN number. I was part 2 recalls- timing chain and turbo heat shield. Hot Chocolate 09 Clubman S went in today for complete replacement of chain (stretched beyond limit), guides, tensioner, bolt. Also found front crankshaft seal leak, since there was a huge amount of labor and parts over lap, having that replaced also- $165 instead of about $3-400.
Just 50k on car and was also told control arm bushings shot. That is about $8-900 repair. Told them to hold off. Rear strut leaking as well. I went 120K miles on my 3 series BMW before control arm bushing replacement and my wife's 97 Z3 is just turning 100k and her control arm bushings are needing replacement.
Has anyone done their own control arm bushings on their MINI?
Just 50k on car and was also told control arm bushings shot. That is about $8-900 repair. Told them to hold off. Rear strut leaking as well. I went 120K miles on my 3 series BMW before control arm bushing replacement and my wife's 97 Z3 is just turning 100k and her control arm bushings are needing replacement.
Has anyone done their own control arm bushings on their MINI?
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: New Orleans
New to the forum. Unfortunately, not new to the problems. Wife and I purchased an 09 Clubman S in 2011. Had worry-free motoring until November. Then, as the others in this thread, blown engine at 54k and 4 months out of warranty. Dealership said -- sorry, it happens, no coverage. I paid for an engine replacement. Local independent mechanic would periodically call around and finally found an engine. Total cost was about 6k. In the interim, I came across this forum as well as several websites "offering to review my case" for a possible class-action suit against MINI.
Have any of you had any luck contacting MINI USA regarding this problem? As the initial poster suggested, I will file a complaint with NHTSA on their website. We are at the point that we no longer want to keep the car, yet, the I can barely get even the engine cost on trade-in now. Now, I regret even bothering to fix the car, perhaps I should have simply donated it as-is to a local charity for the tax deduction.
Have any of you had any luck contacting MINI USA regarding this problem? As the initial poster suggested, I will file a complaint with NHTSA on their website. We are at the point that we no longer want to keep the car, yet, the I can barely get even the engine cost on trade-in now. Now, I regret even bothering to fix the car, perhaps I should have simply donated it as-is to a local charity for the tax deduction.
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
Likes: 1
From: Richardson, TX
Did you get your control arm bushing question answered? Did you get them replaced? It is a big job. I did mine on a lift, dropped the subframe and installed Way Motor Work's replacement knuckle pre-pressed with powerflex bushings. Works swell! The bushing press is one of the stumbling blocks to doing this job.
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Timing Chain Tensioner
Last Fall I took my 2008 S Clubbie in to my local non-factory auto repair shop for a listen to my engine, which sounded like a cement mixer. They did so, thought it sounded normal for a Mini; so I insisted they check the chain and replace the tensioner at a minimum, the whole assembly if necessary. Short story they replaced the tensioner, and called it done! The car didn't sound much different! Race forward to today, I decide to take the car to Mini Downtown here in Toronto to have my winter tires and wheels swapped out for the season, and some Union Jack mirrors stuck on etc. While I am waiting, the tech comes in and huddles with the SA, who asks me to come over. When the tech put it up on the lift, he noticed the tensioner was basically falling out of the hole (he always checks this, so you can see there is a consistent problem!). So I get sent away for lunch, come back, all my requested work was done (at the quoted price) and the car had the timing chain checked (within spec) and a new tensioner installed - at no charge! Fired up the car, and it was as quiet as it used to be when I first bought it! I was impressed!
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Brettski101
We bought our 2008 MINI in nov.2013. After several months took it to mini of Portland and after conversations with them service people they told us that they 200 had a problem with them pensioners but they weren't at a recall level . There factory had told all dealers to fix them as they came in and didn't want to have a formal recall....you should not have had to pay for that repair...it's now 4/ 2014 and we have them rattle now and are taking our car in next week and they will be replacing and fixing for free as per factory recommendation.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Brettski101
As others have stated in this thread, the first thing to do is go to the NHTSA website and file a complaint. There are no notices being sent out because there is no official recall. However many reputable dealers are recognizing that there is an issue and taking care of it. How they are getting reimbursed I don't know.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Getting it back together
I bought my 2008 S new and had the death rattle at 60K. My local Mini dealer fixed it as a "Good Will" gesture. At 110K, the vacuum pump locked up and trashed the entire timing chain assembly and bent 4 valves. That was in 2011.
Fast forward to now, I have just begun buying the parts to rebuild the engine. My local machine shop has the head now taking care of the valve job and clean up. I am tearing down the remainder of the engine to clean out the metal from the timing assembly failure.
The net of this comment is that the valve train assembly in my R56 is a bad design. For all you out there, ignore the long oil change interval and change it often. If the assembly develops a rattle, take it in for service. If it is using oil, don't just assume it is normal as my "oil burn" was actually an oil leak from the turbo feed line that I did not find until I took the engine out of the car.
I love my MINI, the quality of the car itself is great. The paint still looks great as I have had it covered up. However, it has been on jack stands since February 2011, MINI/BMW has been no help, and will be my last MINI. I plan to fix it and drive it, but will look after it myself.
Fast forward to now, I have just begun buying the parts to rebuild the engine. My local machine shop has the head now taking care of the valve job and clean up. I am tearing down the remainder of the engine to clean out the metal from the timing assembly failure.
The net of this comment is that the valve train assembly in my R56 is a bad design. For all you out there, ignore the long oil change interval and change it often. If the assembly develops a rattle, take it in for service. If it is using oil, don't just assume it is normal as my "oil burn" was actually an oil leak from the turbo feed line that I did not find until I took the engine out of the car.
I love my MINI, the quality of the car itself is great. The paint still looks great as I have had it covered up. However, it has been on jack stands since February 2011, MINI/BMW has been no help, and will be my last MINI. I plan to fix it and drive it, but will look after it myself.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Just had the Timing Chain slip and bend the valves in my 2009 MINI Cooper S at 71k. MINI Dealership gave me price to replace with new engine, laughable! This seems to be a known issue. Does anyone have advise on how to approach this with MINI? Dealership clams to have no knowledge of any issues.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 2
Just had the Timing Chain slip and bend the valves in my 2009 MINI Cooper S at 71k. MINI Dealership gave me price to replace with new engine, laughable! This seems to be a known issue. Does anyone have advise on how to approach this with MINI? Dealership clams to have no knowledge of any issues.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Hello all! First post here on the forums. I've spent the last couple of days reading this entire thread.
I'm not a MINI owner yet but have been looking at getting into one. I'm currently having Carmax transfer one from Nashville to here in Knoxville (for free) so I can take a look at it.
Its a 2009 Clubman S with 48k miles on it. I'm guessing it would be under the miles but over on the years to qualify as under the warranty?
My plan is to get the VIN from the Carmax site, call the local MINI dealership and have them run the service history to see what I can find on it.
If the timing chain and/or tensioner has not been replaced does it look like I'd be able to get it done free of charge if I took it to them using the campaign number previously listed in this thread?
I would plan to stick to a 5000-7500 OCI.
I'll also listen for the rattle when I test drive it tomorrow. Anything else that I should look for?
Thanks!
I'm not a MINI owner yet but have been looking at getting into one. I'm currently having Carmax transfer one from Nashville to here in Knoxville (for free) so I can take a look at it.
Its a 2009 Clubman S with 48k miles on it. I'm guessing it would be under the miles but over on the years to qualify as under the warranty?
My plan is to get the VIN from the Carmax site, call the local MINI dealership and have them run the service history to see what I can find on it.
If the timing chain and/or tensioner has not been replaced does it look like I'd be able to get it done free of charge if I took it to them using the campaign number previously listed in this thread?
I would plan to stick to a 5000-7500 OCI.
I'll also listen for the rattle when I test drive it tomorrow. Anything else that I should look for?
Thanks!
Extended Warranty Inquiry
Congrats in advance....
Just a heads up, once you obtain the VIN#, check with Carmax and/or your local dealer if the previous owner purchased a 5-year extended "service/maintenance" warranty which I believe is transferrable. If it does, it should expire on 12/31/14. This warranty comes with free replacement of brake pads, wiper inserts, oil & filter change, "world-class" inspection and roadside service also.
Just a heads up, once you obtain the VIN#, check with Carmax and/or your local dealer if the previous owner purchased a 5-year extended "service/maintenance" warranty which I believe is transferrable. If it does, it should expire on 12/31/14. This warranty comes with free replacement of brake pads, wiper inserts, oil & filter change, "world-class" inspection and roadside service also.