R55 Mini S timing Chain Recall
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
I have owned my 2008 MCS Clubman since June, and have enjoyed every moment in the wee beast! It has not been a time without surprises - during a road trip through New England we climbed into the car after being parked outside in the rain overnight, to find the drivers side footwell awash! It seems the front drivers side sunroof drain was undone and the rain exited from the sunroof gutters into the footwell! Thank goodness we found that parking it with the nose of the car pointing uphill during rain prevented the problem! Ultimately fixing the drain solved it totally!
Following the same trip (in late September) I thought the engine sounded a little "tappety", that is like a good old British car with pushrods and solid lifters. Reading this site, and the joys of "death rattle" and timing chain issues, I thought I should have my (non-MINI dealer) mechanic take a look in mid-October.
My mechanic figured it was nothing out of the ordinary and no problem. Reading further on this and other sites, I thought a new timing chain tensioner was called for, as well as a look at the chain itself, and related guides (chain was within spec and the guides were fine with no cracks or extreme wear). This was all done (at a pretty hefty cost!) and no change to the sounds of the engine!
The sound is there all the time, does not disappear upon warming of the engine, and appears to be engine speed related.
Digging further into this, I am finding that the vacuum pump can make a noise, and the direct injectors also make a noise, combined these items can appear to make a noise similar to what I am hearing!
Various tech service bulletins indicate that noisy injectors and/or vacuum pumps are "normal" and no action required to correct!
Being an old British car owner, i got out my old SU carb tuning tool (a 24" length of rubber hose!) and had a listen to the engine. It appears that the racket I hear is not isolated to the timing chain area, but also appears at the opposite end of the head (vacuum pump area) and along the injector area! So I think these may be the cause of the classic old "tappety" sound I have been panicking over!
Aside from this decidedly nostalgic noise from the engine, there are no other issues - no power loss, great acceleration, great fuel mileage (based on my driving style!).
I still plan to swing by the local MINI dealer and have them check the car out and also check the fob to see what outstanding items may be on the car (I got no service records when I bought the car) and we will see if they indicate a need to do the timing chain based on build date or noise (I do have the original tensioner and detailed receipt for changing it out just in case...!).
The wee beast has 111,000 kms on it!
Wish me luck!
Following the same trip (in late September) I thought the engine sounded a little "tappety", that is like a good old British car with pushrods and solid lifters. Reading this site, and the joys of "death rattle" and timing chain issues, I thought I should have my (non-MINI dealer) mechanic take a look in mid-October.
My mechanic figured it was nothing out of the ordinary and no problem. Reading further on this and other sites, I thought a new timing chain tensioner was called for, as well as a look at the chain itself, and related guides (chain was within spec and the guides were fine with no cracks or extreme wear). This was all done (at a pretty hefty cost!) and no change to the sounds of the engine!
The sound is there all the time, does not disappear upon warming of the engine, and appears to be engine speed related.
Digging further into this, I am finding that the vacuum pump can make a noise, and the direct injectors also make a noise, combined these items can appear to make a noise similar to what I am hearing!
Various tech service bulletins indicate that noisy injectors and/or vacuum pumps are "normal" and no action required to correct!
Being an old British car owner, i got out my old SU carb tuning tool (a 24" length of rubber hose!) and had a listen to the engine. It appears that the racket I hear is not isolated to the timing chain area, but also appears at the opposite end of the head (vacuum pump area) and along the injector area! So I think these may be the cause of the classic old "tappety" sound I have been panicking over!
Aside from this decidedly nostalgic noise from the engine, there are no other issues - no power loss, great acceleration, great fuel mileage (based on my driving style!).
I still plan to swing by the local MINI dealer and have them check the car out and also check the fob to see what outstanding items may be on the car (I got no service records when I bought the car) and we will see if they indicate a need to do the timing chain based on build date or noise (I do have the original tensioner and detailed receipt for changing it out just in case...!).
The wee beast has 111,000 kms on it!
Wish me luck!
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Unfortunately people are more likely to make noise when things are bad then sing praises of the good experiences. Overwhelmingly positive reviews from the majority of automotive magazines and people like the Brit in this post, are some of the reasons I purchased my 2010 MCS Clubman. Love my car!!!
Sent from my iPhone using NAMotoring
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Sent from my iPhone using NAMotoring
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
UPDATE: I got my car back today. Dealer replaced timing chain, chain tensioner, and heat shield at no cost as required by the campaigns. Unfortunately, I was tasked with paying for the following repairs: 1. Replaced vacuum pump and vacuum lines ***light line ***vacuum pump ***vacuum pipe ***vent hose Total $627.43
2. Replace Valve cover....part $358.84.....$0.00 labor (wow, a break..lol) 3. Unrelated item...water pump replaced...$565.03 I definitely believe the vacuum pump (and lines) were damaged by the catastrophic failure of the timing chain and chain tensioner. I will be pursuing reimbursement via the class action lawsuit as my appeals directly to MINI corp. bore no fruit.
The car runs great and sounds very quiet, there was no other engine damage. I hated the expense but I am thrilled to have my MINI running well. Best to you guys.
2. Replace Valve cover....part $358.84.....$0.00 labor (wow, a break..lol) 3. Unrelated item...water pump replaced...$565.03 I definitely believe the vacuum pump (and lines) were damaged by the catastrophic failure of the timing chain and chain tensioner. I will be pursuing reimbursement via the class action lawsuit as my appeals directly to MINI corp. bore no fruit. The car runs great and sounds very quiet, there was no other engine damage. I hated the expense but I am thrilled to have my MINI running well. Best to you guys.Sent from my iPhone using NAMotoring
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
That was the auxiliary water pump that was part of a recall.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 870
Likes: 14
From: Austin, TX
I would be going after reimbursement of some sort because the vacuum pump is tied to the camshaft, namely through using the rotation of the camshaft to create the vacuum within the pump.
When the pump fails, the oil from the head gets into the pump and then into the vacuum lines, which if not replaced will cause them to become weak and give drivability issues (ask me how I know lol). In turn, the lines can possibly carry oil back into the pressure converter and the pressure reservoir, both of which can cause problems later on due to the oil accumulating in them.
So yea absolutely I would be going after the repairs to have been covered along with the timing chain repair because they are tied together.
When the pump fails, the oil from the head gets into the pump and then into the vacuum lines, which if not replaced will cause them to become weak and give drivability issues (ask me how I know lol). In turn, the lines can possibly carry oil back into the pressure converter and the pressure reservoir, both of which can cause problems later on due to the oil accumulating in them.
So yea absolutely I would be going after the repairs to have been covered along with the timing chain repair because they are tied together.
Neutral
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Timing chain recall
Hi guys,
I'm new here on NAM, and wanted to share with you all that I took in my 2008 MCS to the dealership at about 43,000 miles due to rattling. This was back in early August 2013 (way before they sent out the recall). Timing chain was broken and needed replacing. I was quoted almost $6000 worth of repair. I wrote a really well-crafted letter to the service manager and said that with only 43,000 miles, this must be a factory error- not a user error. It was in fact investigated and MINI decided to correct/replace the defect at no cost to me. They even called it a "one-time good will" by the company. 3 1/2 months later, had to tow my car to the dealership due to engine overheating & the check engine light was on. I was told that the thermostat housing is leaking badly, & that I have carbon build-up. Quoted nearly $1,900 worth of repair. I don't know much about engine parts.... Does the timing chain have any relation to thermostat housing? Any if they had in fact replaced the timing chain, and tested compression, wouldn't they have seen/detected carbon build up and informed me?
I'm new here on NAM, and wanted to share with you all that I took in my 2008 MCS to the dealership at about 43,000 miles due to rattling. This was back in early August 2013 (way before they sent out the recall). Timing chain was broken and needed replacing. I was quoted almost $6000 worth of repair. I wrote a really well-crafted letter to the service manager and said that with only 43,000 miles, this must be a factory error- not a user error. It was in fact investigated and MINI decided to correct/replace the defect at no cost to me. They even called it a "one-time good will" by the company. 3 1/2 months later, had to tow my car to the dealership due to engine overheating & the check engine light was on. I was told that the thermostat housing is leaking badly, & that I have carbon build-up. Quoted nearly $1,900 worth of repair. I don't know much about engine parts.... Does the timing chain have any relation to thermostat housing? Any if they had in fact replaced the timing chain, and tested compression, wouldn't they have seen/detected carbon build up and informed me?
1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
$6,000 dollars? Sounds like when your timing chain broke it bent all your valves and required a head rebuild, but $6,000 would be a lot even for that job. They definitely have removed the carbon buildup if they rebuilt the head (been there, done that).
Neutral
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Hey Mikki,
I too have the 2008 MCS and have run into all those issues. Carbon buildup, thermostat replaced. Timing Chain has been replaced 3 times, 30k miles MiniBMW paid, 60k I paid $6,000. 67K MiniBMW paid. Just seven thousand miles since the last replacement, that is way too short for it to break again so it must have been installed incorrectly as well as the ongoing issue with the timing chain. I am taking it in again at 72K just a year after it was replace the second time, and four months after the third replacement. If the issue comes up a fourth time, I'm selling. Makes me sad, I really love my Mini, just a bit of a headache. I costly headache. Happy New Year
the Fool
I too have the 2008 MCS and have run into all those issues. Carbon buildup, thermostat replaced. Timing Chain has been replaced 3 times, 30k miles MiniBMW paid, 60k I paid $6,000. 67K MiniBMW paid. Just seven thousand miles since the last replacement, that is way too short for it to break again so it must have been installed incorrectly as well as the ongoing issue with the timing chain. I am taking it in again at 72K just a year after it was replace the second time, and four months after the third replacement. If the issue comes up a fourth time, I'm selling. Makes me sad, I really love my Mini, just a bit of a headache. I costly headache. Happy New Year
the Fool
Neutral
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Quick question, Could Valve Cover have been damaged because of the Timing Chain problems? I now have to replace the Valve cover, I am at my wits end with this engine. I can't help but think one problem leads to the next and as i have had the Timing Chain replaced 3 times,I can't help but thinking it might be causing issues with other parts. Thanks
On the service order when they did my timing chain, they also listed replacing the valve cover gasket. So, I guess it's possible they could have messed up you valve cover. Or, it might just be the gasket.
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Hi All,
I just took my Clubman S to Midwest Auto Group in Dublin Ohio with the death rattle. This is my first MINI that I recently purchased (2008 with 40k). Timing Chain, aux. water pump, drive belt, and heat shield were all replaced with no charge. So, my question would be.... Am I good now? I was hoping for a bit more reliability than what I have read. Thoughts?
I just took my Clubman S to Midwest Auto Group in Dublin Ohio with the death rattle. This is my first MINI that I recently purchased (2008 with 40k). Timing Chain, aux. water pump, drive belt, and heat shield were all replaced with no charge. So, my question would be.... Am I good now? I was hoping for a bit more reliability than what I have read. Thoughts?
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, NV
Hi All,
I just took my Clubman S to Midwest Auto Group in Dublin Ohio with the death rattle. This is my first MINI that I recently purchased (2008 with 40k). Timing Chain, aux. water pump, drive belt, and heat shield were all replaced with no charge. So, my question would be.... Am I good now? I was hoping for a bit more reliability than what I have read. Thoughts?
I just took my Clubman S to Midwest Auto Group in Dublin Ohio with the death rattle. This is my first MINI that I recently purchased (2008 with 40k). Timing Chain, aux. water pump, drive belt, and heat shield were all replaced with no charge. So, my question would be.... Am I good now? I was hoping for a bit more reliability than what I have read. Thoughts?
Neutral
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Timing Chain Lawsuit
I don't know if anyone is following this. But I want In.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/02/03/65063.htm
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/02/03/65063.htm
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Vero Beach.FL
Wow !! This is amazing stuff. My 2011 NCS has 30,000 miles on her ; I will listen closely from now on. It looks as though BMW might be replacing a lot of engines soon.
Last edited by pelicanpirate; Feb 20, 2014 at 05:59 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,358
Likes: 1
From: Graham, NC
I don't think I've seen a single instance yet of a failure that can be attributed to problems with the oil being used for the recommended interval.
I have seen lots of people posting about how they followed shorter OCIs and still developed problems like needing their timing chain cartridge replaced. It seems whatever OCI someone uses has zero impact on the timing chain issues.
I have seen lots of people posting about how they followed shorter OCIs and still developed problems like needing their timing chain cartridge replaced. It seems whatever OCI someone uses has zero impact on the timing chain issues.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
I am new to the Mini brand however have had a number of German cars. In every forum I ve been I see the same thing, either at Mercedes, or BMW forums. A number of people complaining that the manufacturer recommended oil change intervals, usually 10K miles or one year, whichever comes first are too long. Too long compared to what? Conventional oil change intervals? Well yeah. But synthetic oils are a whole different animal. Just do some reading and see what lab tests show. Oil viscosity is very close if not same at 5K than it is at 10K miles. It is after the recommended interval that the viscosity drops. Most synthetics can actually last much more than manufacturer recommended intervals, but the manufacturers are cautiously lowering the requirements to be safe. The three thousand mile oil change interval requirement is a myth from the past brought to the masses by the Jiffy lubes of the 1960s and 70s.
I am bringing this up because I occasionally read folks stating that Mini's engine troubles are caused by oil problems which it is simply not true. If it were true for Mini it would be for a large number of cars from all manufacturers and it's not the case.
I am bringing this up because I occasionally read folks stating that Mini's engine troubles are caused by oil problems which it is simply not true. If it were true for Mini it would be for a large number of cars from all manufacturers and it's not the case.
Last edited by aggst1; Feb 20, 2014 at 06:55 PM.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 553
Likes: 27
From: USA
The lab tests I've seen show 5k is too soon and 10k is too late. I could split the difference at 7 but I'd rather do sooner than later. We are talking maybe a few hundred dollars in extra oil changes (DIY), peace of mind for me.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Once again, it is best to stick to manufacturers recommendations. If the manufacturer says 10K, then just do that.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 553
Likes: 27
From: USA
That's an interesting article, but it says there is lower friction between 3000 and 15000 miles. Nothing about early changes being a bad idea, in fact it says 'other factors need to be considered.'
Not to hijack the thread, but even your owner's manual will tell you that harsh conditions warrant more frequent changes.
Not to hijack the thread, but even your owner's manual will tell you that harsh conditions warrant more frequent changes.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,358
Likes: 1
From: Graham, NC
That and other studies show that "fresh" oil (e.g. oil between 0 and 3,000) is harsher on the engine than distressed oil. By accelerating the OCI one ends up operating the engine more frequently with oil that is not as effective as using the extended OCI. With a 7k OCI, one ends up operating with the harsher fresh oil for 7k miles during the course of a 15k mile period versus only 3k miles for the person following a 15k OCI, more than doubling any damage that may be occurring.
You are correct that OCI should be adjusted based on use and as you note, even the manual indicates the CBS should not be followed in severe duty situations. Alas, peace of mind is not a factor.
You should also be careful about relying on the results of oil analyses posted by others. Every motor and every driver is different, so results may not really be applicable. Best case you can take several measurements to establish a trend for your own vehicle.
You are correct that OCI should be adjusted based on use and as you note, even the manual indicates the CBS should not be followed in severe duty situations. Alas, peace of mind is not a factor.
You should also be careful about relying on the results of oil analyses posted by others. Every motor and every driver is different, so results may not really be applicable. Best case you can take several measurements to establish a trend for your own vehicle.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 706
Likes: 10
From: Hilliard, Ohio
I am new to the Mini brand however have had a number of German cars. In every forum I ve been I see the same thing, either at Mercedes, or BMW forums. A number of people complaining that the manufacturer recommended oil change intervals, usually 10K miles or one year, whichever comes first are too long. Too long compared to what? Conventional oil change intervals? Well yeah. But synthetic oils are a whole different animal. Just do some reading and see what lab tests show. Oil viscosity is very close if not same at 5K than it is at 10K miles. It is after the recommended interval that the viscosity drops. Most synthetics can actually last much more than manufacturer recommended intervals, but the manufacturers are cautiously lowering the requirements to be safe. The three thousand mile oil change interval requirement is a myth from the past brought to the masses by the Jiffy lubes of the 1960s and 70s.
I am bringing this up because I occasionally read folks stating that Mini's engine troubles are caused by oil problems which it is simply not true. If it were true for Mini it would be for a large number of cars from all manufacturers and it's not the case.
I am bringing this up because I occasionally read folks stating that Mini's engine troubles are caused by oil problems which it is simply not true. If it were true for Mini it would be for a large number of cars from all manufacturers and it's not the case.
Welcome to the MINI crowd. Hope you enjoy the car.
I thnk you will find that we are enthusiasts first and foremost, and we know what happens with these cars if you treat them like a Toyota or honda. You will be very disappointed and will be paying outrageous repair costs.
A couple of points.
The N14 motor is problematic. Period. Without attentive care it will be a great frustration to you.
MINI originally published oil change intervals at 15k for my 2009 JCW. Now their recommendation is 10k miles for the same motor and for newer models. If things were ok before , then why the change?
MINI publishes that oil consumption is perfectly fine between intervals and within spec. Problem is many people don't ever bother to pull the dipstick. So if you wait 10k miles and never check your oil, you could be down maybe 2 qts on a 4.4 qt. system. Combine low oil with a timing chain issue and be out of warranty and good luck getting MINI to fix your motor for free.
Personally, I don't care if someone decides to wait the full 10k or decides 7.5k or even 5k.
So, I don't agree with you that this is paranoia because of the old school thoughts of changing oil every 3000 miles. It's because these motors, which aren't built by MINI or BMW, can be a PITA.
Oh, and euro standard of 10k or 15k change intervals is in place because of the high price they have to pay for oil and for costs of disposal. Taxes baby.