Having just laid an '87 Jetta to rest (if you've seen the cartoon of Eisenhower shooting his Jeep in the radiator, picture that) I feel it didn't seem to have aged very well. Granted - materials, technology, and quality control have all vastly inproved in 19 years, but I'm wondering how everyone feels these little jems are going to hold up over the years.
Of course, normal use is what I'm talking about - not racing or super-duper modding or anything that would cause premature failure.

Are these easily 250,000mi cars, like the 80's RWD Volvos?

thanks
bill

 

Yes and no (the politically correct answer). Some cars have built in obsolence. After all, the car makers NEED to you keep buying new cars or they will go out of business.

On the other hand, for example, some Toyota engines are about bullet-proof ... as in why Lotus uses a Toyota engine in the Elise/Exige. Toyota Land Rovers can last many years.

MINIs? time will tell but obviously there are a lot of warrany work done on the first generation but others have driven well over 100K miles so the jury is out.

American cars? GM, FORD, etc NEED you to keep buying or they are going to be put out of business buy the Toyotas and Hondas for the masses (IMHO).

 

I would say that the only cars that remain reliable long term are cars that are not modded at all!

I think that pretty much every make and model holds up quite well with minimal maintence and abuse through 150k miles. Hondas and toyotas fit that bill maybe 50k longer....But anything over 200k relies solely in the level of preventitive maintence that has taken place over the life of the vehicle

 

yes, true, you got to assume they just meed the manufactors specs and are maintained according to the book.

 

man, i dunno what it is but I cannot seem to keep a car for too long. Even this Mini, im hopefully getting rid of in a few months....for a newer MINI of course =D

 

Of course, you have to define what you mean when you say a car can last a certain number of miles, if you keep replacing and repairing whatever parts needs replacing (repairing) then in theory all cars can last forever, no?

 

Ah no.

Economically, there comes a time when replacing the parts simply isnt worth the money.

Reliability-wise, there comes a time when its no longer reliable transportation because of the odds of something breaking

Chassis-wise, even the best of the rust proof warranties are like 12 years. There IS a reason why they are not "forever". Eventually, it will rust out (Unless its a Vette). Especially if you live in the snow belt.

With one exception. Something like 80% of all Porsches EVER made are still registered in the US since 1948 (Read that somewhere). Then again, if you going to plunk down that kind of money instead of buying a house I guess your going to keep it well maintained

 

Ok, got it, so aside from the chassis rusting thru, it's a judgement call as to when to call it quits on a car then (each driver has his own comfort level for economy and reliability).

I've heard that 80% blurp from a 911 owner, must be something all Porsche owners are obligated to memorize and promulgate .

 

LOL. No I really read that somewhere about car registrations. If you got one, your going to keep it ... Someday .... in my dreams.

 

As someone who owns one of those 33 year old Porsche (the cheap, great handling one, a 914), I'll die before it does. If fact one of my nephews has already approached me about putting in my will... But it stays in the garage, goes out on sunny days or to a Porsche Club or Classic car event and gets one trip a year, so about 1000/year. At this rate it won't break 100K for another 46 years and I'll be gone by then...

No, the 94 Honda Civic we got rid of to get the MCSC, that had 180K on ir, engine was still fine, but alternator, air conditioning, etc gone... Once you get between 1 and 2 K for repairs on a car that's worth 1500, then it's time to let it go...

Still, I expect to break 100k on my MCSC, and with an extended warranty, not pay a whole lot either... I'll see my MA in 2011. Michael

 

I think a car will last for a long as its owner wants it to. Regular or scheduled maintenance is the key for long term durability and reliability. However, the other half of the equation is compounded by the build quality of the car. There are people that drive around (Not very many) in pristine condition 1986 Yugos. We all know that Yugos were junky cars even when they were new.

Some people destroy or wear out cars within a year or two of ownership. Some folks are very rough on their cars. Interiors and exteriors look like they have been thorough a field battle.

When it comes to my car, I don't think whether I will still have it 5-10-20 years from now. I would love to grow old with my cars, but to think in terms of so many years in the future, is a very long shot IMHO. No one knows what will happen within the next 6 months, let alone the next 30 years.

I think that if you take good care of your MINI, the car probably will last 15-30+ years with reasonable repairs and maintenance. Some folks here have had their MINIs well over the 100K mile mark and the cars have not fallen apart.

In our local Mini club we have about 15-20 Classic Minis and the oldest is a 1960 model. A 46 year old Mini which is a car manufactured with 1950's technology and still rolls around. Why wouldn't a 2002-2006 MINI last that long?

In some parts of the country, people hold on to their cars forever. Here in Miami, it is rare to see people holding onto their vehicles for more than 5-7 years. I see more old, but very well kept cars in California than you see in Florida.

 

I think someone made this point already, but here is a great example: check out the U.S.S. Constitution in the U.S., or the H.M.S. Victory in the U.K. These are both wooden sailing warships that were built at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th. I don't think the Victory's been out for a spin lately, but the Constitution still moves under it's own power. Not bad for a machine that's 200+ years old.

The question you have to ask, however, is how much of the Constitution is actually the Constitution? If I remember correctly, there's like one section of the hull back by the stern that has not been replaced. All the rest is replacement parts or...dare I say it...mods that have been on during the past 200 years.

But the Constitution is still, unimpeachably, the Constitution, the same ship that sailed out into the Atlantic during the War of 1812 to defeat several British warships.

So, I guess I'm getting philosophical here, but the whole is more than the sum of it's parts. And as long as you want to keep replacing parts, you can maintain the whole. I've sat in some beautiful cars made during the past 100 years, and they're just like new; they are arguably the same cars that came off the assembly line in 1920 or 30 or 40 or 50, because the construct remains despite the parts being replaced. Okay, pull me into shallow water before I get too deep.

REALISTICALLY: I'm at 38K miles and 22 months. I've had no problems. I've had several warranty repairs on my 2004 MCS. It runs great and has never let me down. Do I envision having it for three more years? Yes. Seven more years. Maybe. 20 years? Probably not, unless I hit the lottery and can afford to start collecting really cool cars.

I had a 1982 Honda Civic I drove for 10 years and more than 200,000 miles, and was great every time I turned the key. I had a 1967 MGB GT that was totalled at 97,000 miles after I drove it for maybe 12K myself. It never started on Monday mornings. Would I still have the Honda if I could afford to keep it. No. Would I still have the MGB? Yes. But I'd be driving a Honda to work everyday.

I love driving my MCS, and I appreciate it as a machine and a thing of beauty, but a part of my mind keeps thinking, "hmm, warranty is coming up at 50K. Clutch, belts, brakes, supercharger, expensive repairs.... Maybe I should sell this now while it still has it's value...?"

 

^^ You wouldn't happen to be a preservationist of any sort, would you? That's the old; "If my father gives me an axe and, over the years, I replace the handle and the head, is it still my father's axe?" postulation.

My mother had a late 70's special edition Trans Am that had a hole straight through the drivers-side floorboard when she finally sold it (because she was sick of getting her heels caught in it). Ollie'll be the same for me -- though hopefully I'm conscientious enough to prevent any such holes...


Note that I think this will be an expensive commitment for me...

 

^ you can just put a piece of plywood on the floor if it happens. lol..

 

I have said it before but.....Before the MINI I never owned a car that wasn't more than 10 years old and had at least 130k on the odometer. my prevous 4 cars....81 firebird (yes it also had holes in the floor) 87 horizon, 92 escort gt, 91 laser.....with the exception of the firebird, these were all reliable cars for the duration of my ownership. I would not have hesitated to drive cross country.....shoot the 87 horizon I put on 800 miles per week for 2 years, only one repair needed a voltage regulator toward the end of that 2 year marathon.

IMO cars have gotten more complex but they have become more reliable as each year goes by. (thank you toyota and honda for making other manufactures compete) computers in cars only scare you if the computer on your desk scares you. Car's talk to you now, tell you when some thing needs fixed, rarely will you find yourself stranded like my firebird left me several times, if you pay attention to service intervals and warning lights your car will do its duty well past 150k....even if you have a GM

 

There is definitely somthing to be said for hassle factor and how much money hassle is worth to you .....BUT

1 or 2k of repairs, even on a $1500 car is still cheaper than depreciation and full coverage insurance on a brand new car. So it rarely makes economical sense.....Buying a new or nearly new car is a lifestyle decision not an economical one. When you want one, and can afford the big hit in the wallet (that means you do not expect the govt to buy your perscription drugs at retirement) then thats great! But it is cheaper to repair....or just buy another $1500 car that is in better condition and drive that one till it breaks....

 

I hope so , since I'm almost halfway there .

I think it all comes down to maintenance, my last car (honda had over 225,000, in 6 years, Old gmc pickup (not known to run forever had over 200,000, and my dads crx currently is up around 550,000 . What do they have in commen? Maintenance. Ive had more problems with the little things breaking in older cars then the actual mechanical things. Things made of plastic seem to go after about 10 years, door handles, window cranks etc. Check back w/ me in 7 years and about 252000 more miles

Nik

 

There's a radio talk show call car talk w/ "click & clack" and one of the guys (I think Tommy) supposedly drives around in an old Dodge Dart, and that's precisely the advise they routinely give their listeners, ie., it's cheaper to fix an old car, regardless of how much it's worth, than to buy a new one. But then again, they are mechanics by profession, what else do you expect to say.

 

You have made an excellent point except for one thing ... A US ship of war is not the same thing as a car. and here is why.

The Constitution, I believe, is still commissioned in the Navy and has been totally renovated/restored many times. Now take say a 1967 427 Vette.

Restorers do Frame Up restoration meaning that EVERY piece is original as coming from the factory. Exact part #s, exact factory castings, meaning you need New Old Stock (NOS). I believe a Hemi Cuda like this sold for $1M at Barrett-Jackson.

Some restorations skimp ... a piece here, not matching numbers, etc. Maybe the fabricate a piece but not OEM The same care loses a MAGNITUDE in sales ... worth maybe $100K (because of the Hemi). An 86 911 Turbo sold for $36K or so because it had an aftermarket exhaust. You dont do that.

Then there are those that just give up and use clearcoat paint, new tires, halogen lights, quartz clocks, but all those parts did NOT exist in 1967. They are selling cars to be driven with little collector value.

Bottom line, is the car original? Yes, if you do a frame up restoration. Want to just drive it? Do what you want.

Of course I think I just went way OT from "just driving" to "making money"

 

Chows, you make a lot of excellent points, except one thing ... your posts are too logical and too darn long! Nobody can follow you! (Hey, I'm just messing with you, relax.)

 

Asking this question is like speculating on what one's general health will be like in 2,3,4 decades, like trying to nail Jello to a wall. I suspect that any well cared (NOT obsessed) for, garaged, and un- or lightly-modded MINI will hold up nicely over time. So far, our "low-tech" iron block engine is holding up very nicely, and may prove worthy to be included in the same league of bulletproof Chrysler engines like the slant-6. Plus cars are generally more rust-resistant now than in the past. Who knows? in 30 years if I'm still putting away in my MCS trying to find premium at $30/gallon, yes it held up well. Jimbo

 

I hope to keep my 2002 MCS forever...I always wanted a classic British Sports Car but was afraid of the reliability factor..The MINI fits the bill in reliability for me...You may still see me with my MINI 20-30 years from now in a classic British car show...
I love this car....My brother still has his 1985 IROC Z in original condition...He says he will never part with it (it's not his daily driver) I think he spends more on storage than the car is worth...it's a labor of love for him. I think I have the same disease with this car...

 

IMO, the MINI parts model is flawed and unless it changes will ultimately limit the logevity of these cars.

When one of your synchros starts to go ten years from now and your only option is to purchase an entire transmission assembly most people will SERIOUSLY question the decision. Factor in the high labor costs (due to assembly complexity) and the situation gets worse. Most people just aren't going to tolerate a $1000+ labor bill for a clutch replacement on an older car.

As far as the body goes, the fender flares are holding in moisture and will be prime rust spots down the road.

 

Two cars like that came up to auction at Barrett. One a mustang, the other a Camaro, both more than 20 year old and, I think, Indy pace cars. Both bought and garaged for 20 years. The mustang didnt even sell at what the guy bought it for. The Camaro sold for a bit more but for far less than the cost of housing.

Don't know how to explain that other than mid-80 American cars just aren't collectable?

 

Unless it's the Cadillac Allante? Find one now in nice shape and it commands far more than what it sold for new, and they are hard to find.

(remember C Applegate on MWC? "And now, the NEW Cadillac ALLANTayyyyy...")

However, after this I am at a loss, chowzer You're right. The 1980s were not good years for American steel, the "lost" decade of generally craptacluar visions. I mean, the 84 'vette says it all.... Jimbo