Playing Devil's advocate, I'd counter that having headlights is sufficient in itself. If the driver wishes to partake of the added safety feature of running with the lights on during daylight hours, so be it. For not only will the driver benefit from the full effect of the low beams, rather than the 40% - 50% brightness of DRLs, but also from the positive effect of rear and side lamps. If the driver doesn't wish to partake, fine. While I believe all prudent drivers should use their lights in inclement daytime weather, be it fog, rain, smoke, etc. I think that most would agree that at 2:00 p.m. on a sunny July afternoon, while driving on I-80 through the countryside, DRLs are of very limited value.

Be alert, The world needs more Lerts.

 

If the world had more Lerts and thoughtful people like you and I and everyone else on NAM, that would be great. Unfortunately the ratio of Lerts to Oblivious, the L/O ratio, is never better than 50% and usually tilted much more toward Oblivious. At dusk and dawn there are many, many people who turn off their lights as soon as they can see or don't turn them on until they need them to see, completely oblivious to the fact that the lights are for others to see them.

If they are on at 2:00 p.m. on a sunny afternoon that doesn't hurt a thing...and the offset is they are on Mr./Mrs. oblivious car when they are most needed.

Driving is, for almost everybody, the most dangerous thing they will ever do. Depending on others to do the right thing can be fatal. We need all the common sense help we can get.

 

My solution. Increase driver training. Make it akin to FAA training, with different levels of competency required for different licenses and access to different vehicles. It should be a crime to sell a 300+hp vehicle to a 92 year old, yet Cadillac does it every day. By periodic, vigorous testing of licensed drivers, we could change the L/O ratio and make our highways much safer. Remember we kill over 40,000 on our roads every year. Shameful.

 

Heck, the insurance companies can't even refuse to pay if you don't have on a seat belt if it is the law. No way they are going to be able to refuse for an 'option'.

Think about it though. You can't get people to use turn signals, headlights at night, keep good tires or replace broken windshields or even use their headlights in the rain. The LAST thing I'm going to worry about is making it mandatory to turn on the DRLs.

Then again, I'm a liberterian. If someone wants to go out and kill themself, well, it isn't government's business to stop them.

 

I suppose this applies to them killing you also?

 

Good idea, but it ain't gonna happen.:smile:

 

Ok, how many of you are wearing your Snell SA rated helmets and SFI approved NOMEXs suit when you drive to work?

Sure, DRLs will make you easier to spot. So would flashing blue and red lights.

I ride a motorcycle. The law requires that the lights be on at all times and I don't really have much choice in the matter. I wear a really expensive full face helmet, leathers, boots, and gloves when I ride. That is my common sense approach to safety. A lot of people (HD riders esp.) think it's dumb to dress like that. Doesn't bother me - I want a fighting chance in an incident.

DRLs-if that's your common sense to safety and it makes you feel better then go for it.

Just don't be to surprised when somebody pulls out in front of you despite having them on. And thanks for trying to look like a motorcycle.

BTW, there is nothing illegal in the US about disabling DRLs on a vehicle that came with them standard.

 

Did someone say they believed DRL's lights would prevent all accidents or something?.

Thowning in a few ridiculous statements:
"Sure, DRLs will make you easier to spot. So would flashing blue and red lights" doesn't change the fact that reasonable measures to prevent accidents, especially those that require no input from the usually distracted driver of today, (Oblivious), can benefit everyone while hurting no one.

Of course you can still die in an accident, but some things just make sense and have no negatives beyond the fact that some people just don't want them.

It's better to go with "I don't want my DLRs on" and forget trying to rationalize a reason beyond that.

I also rode motorcycles accident free for over 40 years.

 

for the SECOND time, the reference wasn't to turnig off Mini DRLs.... Re-read the thread! The point about not being illegal to disable DRLs is on point, and honestly, I don't know what the statutes are on removing seat belts. I think you're not supposed to remove airbags, but I'm not sure...

Also, read the studies. It doesn't matter if it's day or night, the fact that DLRs project light is what's at play. It's a matter of perception, and how our brains work. One can talk about choices all one wants to, but that doesn't make your brain work any different. All the opinions you want to have are fine, but that doesn't alter the data.

Libertarians. Hmmm. The lasaiz fair attitude decribed here doesn't recognize the conflict in interests that exist in societies where people want to do things that effect others. The proper role of gov (one of them, at least) is to provide arbitration between people or groups that want mutually exclusive desires. (Just read the smoking threads). If I want to pour mercury out of my window, and my neighbor drinks from the aquifer that the mercury soaks into, should I be able to just because I want to?

Anyway, if you are interested in a safer driving environment, get them enabled. If you don't want to, don't. But don't then maintain that they are useless to justify the decision. just say that this is something I don't want to participate in, independant of the effects on safety.

Matt

 

Quick show of hands:

How many of you started driving around with your headlights on during the day in your non-DRL car after DRLs came on the market?

How many of you picked the color of your MINI because of safety considerations?

Anyone? Anyone?

 

No hands here. I purchased a European light switch for my previous vehicle (2000 VW GTI VR6) to be able to turn the lights off, because I disliked DRLs so much. My MCS's DRLs have never been enabled, nor do I plan to do so.

As to color, I chose the color most pleasing to my eye, with no thought of safety (Hey, I drive a MINI fer christsakes!) If I had a safety concern, I'd be in a flourescent orange Hummer with lightbar.

 

So I ended up with yet another exhibishinest Red! I had the DLRs enabled. I also added rear fogs.

My gradpa didn't use DRLs, but he did drive around south Floriday with a turnsignal on for many years!

Matt

 

When I read that research indicated that driving with headlights on was safer and that some countries required DRLs it made sense to me and I actually did start driving around with my lights on during the day. I even installed a cheap little alarm in the fuse box that would remind me to turn the lights off, in case I forgot.

I didn't pick the safest body color, but a white roof and mirror caps, plus white bonnet/boot stripes certainly help make my MINI more visible.

Does this make me biggest nerd on NAM?

 

I got Chile Red and had my DRLs programmed on as soon as I found out they weren't. The reason I don't drive around in my other cars that don't have DRLs with my lights on is because I get really tired of having to ask for a jump start. My DRLs turn off automatically.....ain't that neat? I also like the fact that my MINIs DRLs are low intensity, just bright enough to be seen without bothering anyone. Another BMW engineering marvel.

 

Nope - the additional visibily of the white roof was definitely a factor in my decision

I'm lucky I guess, the normal headlight chime always has worked for me.

 

You have an interesting thread going on here, and I find it very informative.

I have one question though. For some reason my DRLs don't go off when I pull the hand brake. I have an '05, and would like the option to sometimes "turn off" my DRLs. Did they take that out of the '05s, or is my MINI sick, and needs a visit to a doctor?

 

For those using thier headlights during the day (not DRL).
Do the dash lights, radio, computer, etc. dim down so much as to be to be unreadable?
My F150 dims the radio, computer and all other items on the dash that light up to the point that I can't see them without turning the headlights off. Not a problem at night but very annoyaning during the day.
If so does the DRL do the same?

 

Nope.

 

You can manually adjust the brightness of the Mini dash lights if you like, therefore you can turn the illumination down during the day if you want. I don't have a problem with the same brightness I use at night during the daytime, can see everything great and just leave it as is day or night.

Sounds like you are getting a Mini - enjoy :smile:

 

You Betcha!
It's due to dock 10-28-05. I hope the Hurricane (Wilma) doesn't delay it.
Bought it from Classic Mini in Cleveland.
I'll be going out to pick it up and drive it back for the break-in. Gonna go south to Southern Cal to show off to all the relatives then north back to Oregon.
MCSa
DS/Black
Premium, Sport, Cold Weather
35% Window Tint
........so far

 

Re: Biggest Nerd...

I did in fact select the brightest available color for my MINI, partly for safety reasons. I realized that a bright color was useful when operating a smaller vehicle when I was driving a rented Lotus Elise around Vegas. I'm convinced that the bright yellow/orange paint was extremely helpful in getting other drivers to notice that I was nearby at stoplights, when passing, etc.

The fact that Judy and I happen to like yellow a lot was the main reason, but I did actually consider visibility to other drivers as a factor.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but my previous car was a Subaru 2.5RS, which had a unique setup for the headlights: You could leave the low beams switched on at all times (including sidemarkers and taillights), and when you switched off the ignition, the lights would go out to save the battery. (There was also an override switch to allow lights on when the key was removed, and the headlights could be enabled/disabled manually at all times.) The only drawback I found was that some drivers thought I had accidentally left my lights on and would honk and gesticulate - maybe the full low-beams produced too much glare....

Anyway, one point I'd like to clarify is that I am not in favor of requiring the use of daytime running lights, just stating my position on why I prefer to use them. Once I realized that their use was mandatory in some places, I gained an understanding of why some posts seem so vehemently opposed to the idea.

_Dave_