R50/53 British or German ?
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 798
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte, NC
The minute you remove THE cupholder it instantly becomes pure German. That's why I believe that cupholder was flung in there at the last minute--to give it a little of that bizzare British eh, quote, 'charm'.
What's funny is that I cuss my Jaguar XJ-S because it does NOT have a cupholder. It does, however, have 3 ashtrays within 10 inches of each other in (basically) a 2-seater. Only children could EVER fit in the back seat, but cleverly, an ash tray was provided for them. The car also has 2 climate control motors for a TINY LITTLE cabin, and weighs 4500 lbs with a crazy 5.3L V12 engine, wired with lucas "darktronics" (hey I like that--I think I'll swipe that phrase) using PCV coated wiring not rated for the high temperatures and leaked oils faced beneath the ever-so-beautiful bonnet. It also has a 2-pass radiator with 3 inlet/outlets and a bypass, an expansion tank, an overflow tank (located in the bodywork to ensure potential rust) and two filler spouts clearly designed by a committee, yet the number one killer of these engines is overheating, which still occurs! Then, there's an idle circuit, and idle enrichment solonoid, and an idle enrichment override solonoid to cancel out the idle enrichment when you shut off the ac or put it in neutral/park...bewildering!!!
Nah, the MINI is a German car with a British cupholder to legitimize it as British by giving it a little quirkiness.
I for one, will never remove that cupholder!
What's funny is that I cuss my Jaguar XJ-S because it does NOT have a cupholder. It does, however, have 3 ashtrays within 10 inches of each other in (basically) a 2-seater. Only children could EVER fit in the back seat, but cleverly, an ash tray was provided for them. The car also has 2 climate control motors for a TINY LITTLE cabin, and weighs 4500 lbs with a crazy 5.3L V12 engine, wired with lucas "darktronics" (hey I like that--I think I'll swipe that phrase) using PCV coated wiring not rated for the high temperatures and leaked oils faced beneath the ever-so-beautiful bonnet. It also has a 2-pass radiator with 3 inlet/outlets and a bypass, an expansion tank, an overflow tank (located in the bodywork to ensure potential rust) and two filler spouts clearly designed by a committee, yet the number one killer of these engines is overheating, which still occurs! Then, there's an idle circuit, and idle enrichment solonoid, and an idle enrichment override solonoid to cancel out the idle enrichment when you shut off the ac or put it in neutral/park...bewildering!!!
Nah, the MINI is a German car with a British cupholder to legitimize it as British by giving it a little quirkiness.
I for one, will never remove that cupholder!
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: Western NC Mountains
Concerning Lucas "Darktronics". I haven't copyrighted it so feel free to use the term...If we (all of us) do indeed own "British" cars, you should be familiar with the "dark" history of Lucas electrics. Look it up, you will be amazed.
I speak with a combination of masochism, resignatiion, and the agony of a longtime member of the British Car owner. Hey, put 3 Brits together and they'll start a club to save some old British rag that noone in their right mind would touch. I know.....
I've owned:
1959 Austin Healey 100/6 (paid $300 and that was too much) back in the mid-60's.
A Nash Metropolitan convertible - paid $125 bucks for it...it ran for two weeks and died, but I wish I still had it (I bought it in San Diego in 1969 and the body was cherry)
A long dry spell follows.....
Then, a 1976 Triumph TR-6 (in 1988), the Best Brit I ever owned. My wife still hasn't forgiven me for getting rid of it to buy....
a 1962 Triumph TR-3B...not my best move unless you REALLY like rust and oil and Lucas (Boy do I have Stories)...but who could resist those cut-down doors, big steering wheel and the teeny, tiny shifter.
1967 MGB Steel Dash w/overdrive - Fun but found out it was put together from 2 different cars...funny, it didn't seem to care but "She who must be obeyed" required a cushion to drive it.
And now a 2006 MINI S...that is, if you consider it British...I don't expect the lights to go out in the rain (or when it's dark) or for it to leak oil...so it's probably not remotely British.....but I'm going to pretend it is...I already have two German Cars...an R32 and a '65 Beetle.
Question: How can you tell if you have a British Computer? It's the one with a puddle of oil beneath it.
Long live the Empire!
I speak with a combination of masochism, resignatiion, and the agony of a longtime member of the British Car owner. Hey, put 3 Brits together and they'll start a club to save some old British rag that noone in their right mind would touch. I know.....
I've owned:
1959 Austin Healey 100/6 (paid $300 and that was too much) back in the mid-60's.
A Nash Metropolitan convertible - paid $125 bucks for it...it ran for two weeks and died, but I wish I still had it (I bought it in San Diego in 1969 and the body was cherry)
A long dry spell follows.....
Then, a 1976 Triumph TR-6 (in 1988), the Best Brit I ever owned. My wife still hasn't forgiven me for getting rid of it to buy....
a 1962 Triumph TR-3B...not my best move unless you REALLY like rust and oil and Lucas (Boy do I have Stories)...but who could resist those cut-down doors, big steering wheel and the teeny, tiny shifter.
1967 MGB Steel Dash w/overdrive - Fun but found out it was put together from 2 different cars...funny, it didn't seem to care but "She who must be obeyed" required a cushion to drive it.
And now a 2006 MINI S...that is, if you consider it British...I don't expect the lights to go out in the rain (or when it's dark) or for it to leak oil...so it's probably not remotely British.....but I'm going to pretend it is...I already have two German Cars...an R32 and a '65 Beetle.
Question: How can you tell if you have a British Computer? It's the one with a puddle of oil beneath it.
Long live the Empire!
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
From: Back IN Chicopee
As a owner of a 73 Series III Land Rover, 76 Triumph TR6 and a 71 Norton Commando, I'll tell you the new Mini is a Brit Body with a German Heart and Nervous system. The best of both worlds.
I wanted a old mini but my wife told me no more vehicles that don't run.
If the New Mini was strictly British I wouldn't have one I would just be lusting after one.
A true british experiance car to me is heartache. You love their looks but the just keep letting you down. When you have to remove the stearing column in your TR6 to change the oil you'll begin to understand. When all your lights on your dash go out for no reason you might undertand even more.
Paul
I wanted a old mini but my wife told me no more vehicles that don't run.
If the New Mini was strictly British I wouldn't have one I would just be lusting after one.
A true british experiance car to me is heartache. You love their looks but the just keep letting you down. When you have to remove the stearing column in your TR6 to change the oil you'll begin to understand. When all your lights on your dash go out for no reason you might undertand even more. Paul
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 247
Likes: 1
The Mini is PURE German.
designed by germans
built by germans
sold by germans
other then the name, I dont understand where people get the UK in this car.
Accept it people, it's a small BMW. It's written everywhere on the car!
designed by germans
built by germans
sold by germans
other then the name, I dont understand where people get the UK in this car.
Accept it people, it's a small BMW. It's written everywhere on the car!
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by british kompressor
The Mini is PURE German.
designed by germans
built by germans
sold by germans
other then the name, I dont understand where people get the UK in this car.
Accept it people, it's a small BMW. It's written everywhere on the car!
designed by germans
built by germans
sold by germans
other then the name, I dont understand where people get the UK in this car.
Accept it people, it's a small BMW. It's written everywhere on the car!
True tho, it is mechanically a small BMW, just look at the rear suspension!
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 247
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by xtremepsionic
Hehe, it also "looks" british and is built in Britain!
True tho, it is mechanically a small BMW, just look at the rear suspension!
True tho, it is mechanically a small BMW, just look at the rear suspension!
it's an interesting way to think of it... that would also mean that a VW Golf is a mexican car, not german.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
From: Canberra, Australia
Well....my car's got german stickers all over it....and some of the parts have their info stamped on them in German...
In fact....a bunch of us just attended the 'German Autofest' last weekend in my home town...
SmugMug gallery (mini pics are on the last few pages)
and Mini2 pics and thread
In fact....a bunch of us just attended the 'German Autofest' last weekend in my home town...
SmugMug gallery (mini pics are on the last few pages)
and Mini2 pics and thread
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by british kompressor
right... so if BMW opens a factory in Irak, the new 5 series or whatever would be a Iraki car??
it's an interesting way to think of it... that would also mean that a VW Golf is a mexican car, not german.
it's an interesting way to think of it... that would also mean that a VW Golf is a mexican car, not german.
Honestly though, I do like the fact that the MINI is a german car, owning a mini BMW is one of the reasons why I bought this instead of say, an RSX.
2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
"Manufactured by Bayerische Motoren Werke" is clearly stamped on the production plate. That the manufacturing (assembly) takes place in Oxford England adds confusion. But it IS the product of a German company (who saved the MINI brand from the scrap heap) so I say it's German...mostly.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: Gloucester, MA, USA
Where the MINI is made is significant - it is made in England.
And the sticker tells us that 50% of the parts are British, and only 20% are from Germany.
If MINI is German because the parent company is German, then Jaguar & Volvo are American (owned by Ford) and Chrysler are German too.
Practically, as commented already, MINI and most cars are WORLD products - the National Geographic article gives some perspective to folks that just don't get it ...
And the sticker tells us that 50% of the parts are British, and only 20% are from Germany.
If MINI is German because the parent company is German, then Jaguar & Volvo are American (owned by Ford) and Chrysler are German too.
Practically, as commented already, MINI and most cars are WORLD products - the National Geographic article gives some perspective to folks that just don't get it ...
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
I think this old joke sums it up
Heaven and Hell
Heaven Is Where:
The French are the chefs
The Italians are the lovers
The British are the police
The Germans are the mechanics
And the Swiss make everything run on time
Hell is Where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
Heaven and Hell
Heaven Is Where:
The French are the chefs
The Italians are the lovers
The British are the police
The Germans are the mechanics
And the Swiss make everything run on time
Hell is Where:
The British are the chefs
The Swiss are the lovers
The French are the mechanics
The Italians make everything run on time
And the Germans are the police
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
From: Back IN Chicopee
Originally Posted by GBMINI
Where the MINI is made is significant - it is made in England.
And the sticker tells us that 50% of the parts are British, and only 20% are from Germany.
If MINI is German because the parent company is German, then Jaguar & Volvo are American (owned by Ford) and Chrysler are German too.
Practically, as commented already, MINI and most cars are WORLD products - the National Geographic article gives some perspective to folks that just don't get it ...
And the sticker tells us that 50% of the parts are British, and only 20% are from Germany.
If MINI is German because the parent company is German, then Jaguar & Volvo are American (owned by Ford) and Chrysler are German too.
Practically, as commented already, MINI and most cars are WORLD products - the National Geographic article gives some perspective to folks that just don't get it ...
.If dog is bred/born in a stable it doesn't make him a horse.
Most of the things we mention about being british have nothing to do with where its made but rather bad mechanicals and electricals. I guess I could really make my mini british, poke a pin hole in the oil pan and pur a coke on the fuse block.
Paul
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,406
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Ohio
Originally Posted by JeffS
The accord is a unique example. The american-market accord is 100% american because it's designed, built and sold for the US market. The accord for the rest of the world is what we call the Acura TSX.
It doesn't help that Hundai has plants in the US, so does BMW... GM builds some cars for the US market at Holden plants in Australia, I believe the Saab SUV is actually built in Japan...
Is a Chevy built in China only for the Chinese market, but designed in the US and built from US made parts a Chinese car or an American car?
Is a Jaguar built on the frame of a Ford designed in England built in Canada and sold worldwide American, Canadian, or English, or something else... (yes I know Jags aren't assembled in Canada, but it could happen...)
6th Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: Gloucester, MA, USA
So we conclude that:
- where the car is made does not determine its origin
- where the car parts come from is irrelevant
- the owner (BMW/Ford/Mercedes/...) of the manufacturing site is relevant to some but not to others, depending what they want the answer to be
I therefore propose that we determine British or German by the PERSONALITY of the car. A Toyota or Honda built in USA is still "Japanese" ...
I totally reject any claim that the personality of MINI is German - the car is much too quirky/cute/... for it to be German. Its personality, based on the 40 year Mini icon, is as British as the original.
- where the car is made does not determine its origin
- where the car parts come from is irrelevant
- the owner (BMW/Ford/Mercedes/...) of the manufacturing site is relevant to some but not to others, depending what they want the answer to be
I therefore propose that we determine British or German by the PERSONALITY of the car. A Toyota or Honda built in USA is still "Japanese" ...
I totally reject any claim that the personality of MINI is German - the car is much too quirky/cute/... for it to be German. Its personality, based on the 40 year Mini icon, is as British as the original.
First character of my VIN is "W"
"BMW", "Germany" and various German phrases are all over my car
Parts come from Germany
German engineered
It's German
Do you all the Z3's that are made in South Carolina American cars? I sure don't
"BMW", "Germany" and various German phrases are all over my car
Parts come from Germany
German engineered
It's German
Do you all the Z3's that are made in South Carolina American cars? I sure don't
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 798
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte, NC
Even within the marque, there can be distinctions.
For example, the Z8 Alpina looks thoroughly British even though it's all BMW.
If the original Mini never existed in the first place, and the New MINI were simply a product of Germany, I don't think it would be out of place in the rest of the BMW line.
For example, the labels on the stereo, controls, sunroof/convertible top, etc. are all identical to those in other BMW vehicles.
The handling is all German. The VIN numbers are WMWRE...
"It's quite easy to decode the VIN:
The first character identifies the country in which the car was manufactured.
1=USA 2=Canada 3=Mexico 4=USA 5=USAJ=Japan K=Korea Z=Italy S=England W=Germany" http://www.sjbaker.org/telamom/vin.html
And to top it all off, the Z-4 is actually built in the USA. All of this is, admitedly, my American perspective. Oddly enough,the MINI One and MINI Diesel models come across as British, even though they share the same cosmetics. I think this perception is due to the lack of performance these cars have compared to the Cooper and S cars that share performance with German cars...
For example, the Z8 Alpina looks thoroughly British even though it's all BMW.
If the original Mini never existed in the first place, and the New MINI were simply a product of Germany, I don't think it would be out of place in the rest of the BMW line.
For example, the labels on the stereo, controls, sunroof/convertible top, etc. are all identical to those in other BMW vehicles.
The handling is all German. The VIN numbers are WMWRE...
"It's quite easy to decode the VIN:
The first character identifies the country in which the car was manufactured.
1=USA 2=Canada 3=Mexico 4=USA 5=USAJ=Japan K=Korea Z=Italy S=England W=Germany" http://www.sjbaker.org/telamom/vin.html
And to top it all off, the Z-4 is actually built in the USA. All of this is, admitedly, my American perspective. Oddly enough,the MINI One and MINI Diesel models come across as British, even though they share the same cosmetics. I think this perception is due to the lack of performance these cars have compared to the Cooper and S cars that share performance with German cars...
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
From: Back IN Chicopee
Originally Posted by GBMINI
So we conclude that:
- where the car is made does not determine its origin
- where the car parts come from is irrelevant
- the owner (BMW/Ford/Mercedes/...) of the manufacturing site is relevant to some but not to others, depending what they want the answer to be
I therefore propose that we determine British or German by the PERSONALITY of the car. A Toyota or Honda built in USA is still "Japanese" ...
I totally reject any claim that the personality of MINI is German - the car is much too quirky/cute/... for it to be German. Its personality, based on the 40 year Mini icon, is as British as the original.
- where the car is made does not determine its origin
- where the car parts come from is irrelevant
- the owner (BMW/Ford/Mercedes/...) of the manufacturing site is relevant to some but not to others, depending what they want the answer to be
I therefore propose that we determine British or German by the PERSONALITY of the car. A Toyota or Honda built in USA is still "Japanese" ...
I totally reject any claim that the personality of MINI is German - the car is much too quirky/cute/... for it to be German. Its personality, based on the 40 year Mini icon, is as British as the original.
Paul
