R50/53 British or German ?
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by holdenontoit
I think you have the cart before the horse: when BMW bought Rover , they had no clue that the the MINI marque was part of the package.Only due to the efforts of three American hotshots did the MINI resurect itself, but LONG after the purchase of the Oxford plant. This info from an Autoweek article that first spoke to the possibility of a revamp of the 5.4 million classic minis that permeate the world market( second in sheer numbers to the ford model t) Jock
Tatt
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From: north seacoast ,Ma.USA
Originally Posted by tattman23
Interesting, that ^^^. And, I love your sig
Tatt
Tatt
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My 1967 mini was a British car
Had lots of fun in my first car, a 1967 Mini. But also lots of problems. I bought the 05 because it is now a German car. They kept the fun from the first mini added that to todays German engineering.
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From: City of Angels, Cali
Ok... so basically what you guys are saying is:
Rolls Royce is German.
Bentley is German.
MINI is German.
Nah, I must disagree. Just because the parent company is German, doesnt mean the car is German.
The cars above are assembled in Britain. Engineered in Germany. Named in Britain. Raised in Britain. Conceived in Britain. BRITAIN.
MINI is British all the way. (plus it looks like it's only German to those who love BMW's)
My Camel is "Made in England". That actually means alot to me.
Rolls Royce is German.
Bentley is German.
MINI is German.
Nah, I must disagree. Just because the parent company is German, doesnt mean the car is German.
The cars above are assembled in Britain. Engineered in Germany. Named in Britain. Raised in Britain. Conceived in Britain. BRITAIN.
MINI is British all the way. (plus it looks like it's only German to those who love BMW's)
My Camel is "Made in England". That actually means alot to me.
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From: City of Angels, Cali
Originally Posted by british kompressor
there is a huge differance:
It does not say "ford" in the inside of the drivers door in an Aston Martin, But it sure says BMW in a Mini!
.
It does not say "ford" in the inside of the drivers door in an Aston Martin, But it sure says BMW in a Mini!
.
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From: City of Angels, Cali
Originally Posted by british kompressor
ok, lets get back to the basics here...
Whatever product manufactured by a german company makes it a german product. there is no debate about that.
The only reason the car we drive is called a Mini, is because BMW needed a well known name to give it's new small car. they wanted to get in a lower scale market (lower then the 3 series) with a small car that would attrack a younger more "peppy" crowd. So, they paid a couple of million dollars and baught the NAME, thats all. JUST THE NAME.
the BMW Mini was conceived to compete with the Golf, 206... and on and on.
Whatever product manufactured by a german company makes it a german product. there is no debate about that.
The only reason the car we drive is called a Mini, is because BMW needed a well known name to give it's new small car. they wanted to get in a lower scale market (lower then the 3 series) with a small car that would attrack a younger more "peppy" crowd. So, they paid a couple of million dollars and baught the NAME, thats all. JUST THE NAME.
the BMW Mini was conceived to compete with the Golf, 206... and on and on.
And trust me, if they were to build a new small BMW, it sure as hell would not resemble a Mini, and definitely wouldnt look like a MINI.
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From: City of Angels, Cali
Originally Posted by SpiderX
Thanks to Rick Anderson posting his San Diego British car show pics I thought some more about this. I have owned 5 MGs, 1 Jag XKE (69) and 1, 911.
My Mini reminds me a lot more of my 911 that either the Jag or the MGs. I ask you this ....what British car does the Mini drive like?
My Mini reminds me a lot more of my 911 that either the Jag or the MGs. I ask you this ....what British car does the Mini drive like?
I owned several Classics, and the first time I got into a 911, it reminded me of my Classic Mini.
So the fact that your MINI reminds you of your 911 has got nothing to do with the fact that you think it's German.
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From: City of Angels, Cali
Originally Posted by british kompressor
The Mini is PURE German.
designed by germans
built by germans
sold by germans
other then the name, I dont understand where people get the UK in this car.
Accept it people, it's a small BMW. It's written everywhere on the car!
designed by germans
built by germans
sold by germans
other then the name, I dont understand where people get the UK in this car.
Accept it people, it's a small BMW. It's written everywhere on the car!
but to correct your statement further:
built by British.
sold by German.
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Originally Posted by camelpilot
Interesting point. BUT check this out....
I owned several Classics, and the first time I got into a 911, it reminded me of my Classic Mini.
So the fact that your MINI reminds you of your 911 has got nothing to do with the fact that you think it's German.
I owned several Classics, and the first time I got into a 911, it reminded me of my Classic Mini.
So the fact that your MINI reminds you of your 911 has got nothing to do with the fact that you think it's German.
btw I can compare the new Mini to a 69 jag or MG when it is in the context of "heritage."
Stepehson was schooled in America. The car is truly multi -national in my book
Rools Royce will always be British.
Plasma screens were the brainchild of two Purdue students while pondering the effects of blacklights on phosphor posters ... (Jimi Hendrix) Fujitsu manufactured the first screens.....
OVERDRIVE
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From: Yinzer in Exile
Ollie is British -- insofar as any car these days can be identified by one nation of origin. ALL cars are basically world cars at this point, but we still assign them a nationality -- generally one related to the company that makes them.
As Ollie is made by MINI and MINI is based in England, Ollie is British.
And no, Ollie is NOT made by BMW. Ollie is made by a company that is ultimately owned by BMW. There's a difference.
As Ollie is made by MINI and MINI is based in England, Ollie is British.
And no, Ollie is NOT made by BMW. Ollie is made by a company that is ultimately owned by BMW. There's a difference.
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From: Fairfield County, CT
Pretty much all cars today are "multi-national," but I would still consider the MINI British, as the majority of parts and the assembly are done there. I'm not offended by the German influenece, (oh, wait, who is responsible for the 2007 models, before I commit?)... better quit before I did a hole...
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Where the parts come from. I got this from a National Geographic story.
Grill, made in Germany, headquarters, Germany
Gas engine, made in Brazil, HQ, Brazil
Diesel engine, Made in Japan, HQ, Japan
Front and rear bumpers, made in U.K., HQ Canada
Bonnet/hood, made in Netherlands, HQ, Austria
Windsheild
made in Belgium, HQ, France
Headliner, made in U.K., HQ , Spain
Outside mirrors, made in Germany, HQ, Canada
Seats, made in U.K., HQ, US
Exhaust system, made in U.K. HQ, US
Wheel bearings, made in U.K., HQ, US
Looks like a world car, built in a plant owned by Germans in the U.K., to me.
Grill, made in Germany, headquarters, Germany
Gas engine, made in Brazil, HQ, Brazil
Diesel engine, Made in Japan, HQ, Japan
Front and rear bumpers, made in U.K., HQ Canada
Bonnet/hood, made in Netherlands, HQ, Austria
Windsheild
made in Belgium, HQ, FranceHeadliner, made in U.K., HQ , Spain
Outside mirrors, made in Germany, HQ, Canada
Seats, made in U.K., HQ, US
Exhaust system, made in U.K. HQ, US
Wheel bearings, made in U.K., HQ, US
Looks like a world car, built in a plant owned by Germans in the U.K., to me.
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Originally Posted by camelpilot
lol wrong again man. MINI is designed by Americans.
but to correct your statement further:
built by British.
sold by German.
but to correct your statement further:
built by British.
sold by German.
also, you comment about bently, rolls, mercedes... has nothing to go with this. Like I said before:
It does not say "Manufactured by BMW" in the drivers door of a Bently.
That's becasue BMW baught a Company named Bently. In the case of the Mini, BMW baught Rover and decided to use the name of one of the cars to produce a small hatchback, which BMW was lacking.
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From: Valparaiso, IN
I would beg to differ that MINI is BMW.
BMW are NOT Front wheel drive cars. BMW are rear wheel drive cars EXCLUSIVELY. BMW prides itself on not going front wheel drive. The 1 series is basically MINI sized and REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Even the Isetta was rear Driven.
MINI is known for its Size, Shape, and FWD. By placing the engine East West layout they can MAXIMIZE interor while MINIMIZE the Exterior.
Using the MINI name was the only way for BMW to "Build" and "Sell" a front wheel drive low cost car with out Ailenating those who know that BMW's are Rear wheel driven. It would also allow them to broaden into the "down scale" market with out hurting their "Up Scale" immage.
We all win BMW stays BMW but also branches into a new market.
BMW are NOT Front wheel drive cars. BMW are rear wheel drive cars EXCLUSIVELY. BMW prides itself on not going front wheel drive. The 1 series is basically MINI sized and REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Even the Isetta was rear Driven.
MINI is known for its Size, Shape, and FWD. By placing the engine East West layout they can MAXIMIZE interor while MINIMIZE the Exterior.
Using the MINI name was the only way for BMW to "Build" and "Sell" a front wheel drive low cost car with out Ailenating those who know that BMW's are Rear wheel driven. It would also allow them to broaden into the "down scale" market with out hurting their "Up Scale" immage.
We all win BMW stays BMW but also branches into a new market.
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From: DFW, TX
It depends.
If someone asked me, I'd say it's a German car, because it is. It's a BMW product (100%). Last time I checked, BMW was not based in the UK.
However, I personally think of the MINI as a British car.
Here's another example. Both the Jaguar X-Type and S-Type are based on Ford platforms, and are both essentially 100% Ford products.
Do we think of Jags as domestics? Definitely not.
The MINI falls into the same group.
If someone asked me, I'd say it's a German car, because it is. It's a BMW product (100%). Last time I checked, BMW was not based in the UK.
However, I personally think of the MINI as a British car.
Here's another example. Both the Jaguar X-Type and S-Type are based on Ford platforms, and are both essentially 100% Ford products.
Do we think of Jags as domestics? Definitely not.
The MINI falls into the same group.
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From: Beautiful Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted by british kompressor
That's becasue BMW baught a Company named Bently. In the case of the Mini, BMW baught Rover and decided to use the name of one of the cars to produce a small hatchback, which BMW was lacking.
My MINI has that bulldog stance, but the slightest scent of saurkraut...
(and, I hear they will run on hefeweisen)
dan
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From: City of Angels, Cali
Originally Posted by british kompressor
why is it designed by americans???
also, you comment about bently, rolls, mercedes... has nothing to go with this. Like I said before:
It does not say "Manufactured by BMW" in the drivers door of a Bently.
That's becasue BMW baught a Company named Bently. In the case of the Mini, BMW baught Rover and decided to use the name of one of the cars to produce a small hatchback, which BMW was lacking.
also, you comment about bently, rolls, mercedes... has nothing to go with this. Like I said before:
It does not say "Manufactured by BMW" in the drivers door of a Bently.
That's becasue BMW baught a Company named Bently. In the case of the Mini, BMW baught Rover and decided to use the name of one of the cars to produce a small hatchback, which BMW was lacking.
And in the door of a Bentley it will say manufactured by Volkswagon.
BMW never decided to use the name of a car of a company they owned. The name and brand Mini was exclusive. Like Land Rover is exclusive. BMW seperated the brands (they are not just names) that Rover owned.
I'll give you a good example. Just say Toyota came along and bought BMW. THat would mean Toyota now owns MINI, BMW, Rolls-Royce.
THen under their ownership they nearly went bankrupt and decided to sell MINI and BMW, but keep Rolls-Royce and make a new Phantom or something. That new Phantom would still be a Rolls-Royce. A japanese owned, british built, Rolls-royce.
Not a Toyota Phantom.
Not a Japanese Rolls-Royce.
This is exactly what happened to the MINI brand.
You may want to research a little bit more if you're going to start telling people your car is a BMW. Owned by BMW, yes. A BMW, no.
Geez, the car is not even built in a BMW factory.
The case of MINI and BMW is nothing like Lexus and Toyota, or Honda and Acura, or Nissan and Infiniti.
Because with those cars you can safely say one is the other. They are made under the same roof, by the same family of robots.
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From: DFW, TX
Originally Posted by camelpilot
And in the door of a Bentley it will say manufactured by Volkswagen.
This brings up another question. Is the Lamborghini Gallardo German? The brand is owned by VW, the Gallardo was designed under the influence of VW, it FEELS like a VW product, most of the components used in the car are VW parts, and it uses a VW engine and the VW/Audi Quattro AWD system.
Originally Posted by camelpilot
The case of MINI and BMW is nothing like Lexus and Toyota, or Honda and Acura, or Nissan and Infiniti.
The MINI is a BMW product. It was developed by BMW, is on a BMW designed platform, feels like a BMW, drives like a (fwd) BMW, and like people have said, it even SAYS BMW on the car.
You're just looking at this the wrong way. The MINI is not a part of the BMW division, it's a part of the BMW brand as a whole. They're two seperate things.
Kinda like Ford Motor Company as a whole is different from the Ford division, even though they share a name.
The MINI is a BMW, there is no doubt about it. You shouldn't be upset by that though, BMWs are amazing cars.....some of the best on the road, imo.
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I'm not sure this will add to the discussion, but it seems that BMW set out to build...not a just small BWM...but a real, updated Mini. This meant approaching the car in a totally different way. They had to hit a defining mark outside the normal BMW realm, something that was uniquely Mini. Miraculously, given all the drama, they stayed on target and succeeded. Although in many regards the car is vastly different from it's predecessor, I think word is out (and has been for some time) that this is, in fact, a true heir to the Mini throne, successfully updated. Also, in spite of all the stickers in Deutch, BMW has overall done absolutely nothing to diminish...and everything to reinforce...the essential Britishness of MINI, along with the true, solitary, stand-alone nature of MINI as a distict entity....not just within BMW, but as an automotive icon of singular stature.
Truly, the question posed of MINI as a British or German car is not easily resolved. A simplistic answer, upon intense analysis, seems beyond reach. I mean...it is, and it isn't. Ya gotta love a good debate though!!:smile:
Truly, the question posed of MINI as a British or German car is not easily resolved. A simplistic answer, upon intense analysis, seems beyond reach. I mean...it is, and it isn't. Ya gotta love a good debate though!!:smile:
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From: DFW, TX
Originally Posted by mbabischkin
I believe the Saab SUV is actually built in Japan...
The Saab 9-2X hatchback is built in Japan, because it's not a Saab. It's a rebadged Subaru WRX.
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Originally Posted by DrDiff
I would beg to differ that MINI is BMW.
BMW are NOT Front wheel drive cars. BMW are rear wheel drive cars EXCLUSIVELY. BMW prides itself on not going front wheel drive. The 1 series is basically MINI sized and REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Even the Isetta was rear Driven.
MINI is known for its Size, Shape, and FWD. By placing the engine East West layout they can MAXIMIZE interor while MINIMIZE the Exterior.
Using the MINI name was the only way for BMW to "Build" and "Sell" a front wheel drive low cost car with out Ailenating those who know that BMW's are Rear wheel driven. It would also allow them to broaden into the "down scale" market with out hurting their "Up Scale" immage.
We all win BMW stays BMW but also branches into a new market.
BMW are NOT Front wheel drive cars. BMW are rear wheel drive cars EXCLUSIVELY. BMW prides itself on not going front wheel drive. The 1 series is basically MINI sized and REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Even the Isetta was rear Driven.
MINI is known for its Size, Shape, and FWD. By placing the engine East West layout they can MAXIMIZE interor while MINIMIZE the Exterior.
Using the MINI name was the only way for BMW to "Build" and "Sell" a front wheel drive low cost car with out Ailenating those who know that BMW's are Rear wheel driven. It would also allow them to broaden into the "down scale" market with out hurting their "Up Scale" immage.
We all win BMW stays BMW but also branches into a new market.
take a look at this, it's copy-paste directly from the BBC website:
"The Mini is BMW's only front-wheel-drive car"
URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1342234.stm
I think this settles it.
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Originally Posted by camelpilot
The guy who "penned" the car is an American National.
And in the door of a Bentley it will say manufactured by Volkswagon.
BMW never decided to use the name of a car of a company they owned. The name and brand Mini was exclusive. Like Land Rover is exclusive. BMW seperated the brands (they are not just names) that Rover owned.
I'll give you a good example. Just say Toyota came along and bought BMW. THat would mean Toyota now owns MINI, BMW, Rolls-Royce.
THen under their ownership they nearly went bankrupt and decided to sell MINI and BMW, but keep Rolls-Royce and make a new Phantom or something. That new Phantom would still be a Rolls-Royce. A japanese owned, british built, Rolls-royce.
Not a Toyota Phantom.
Not a Japanese Rolls-Royce.
This is exactly what happened to the MINI brand.
You may want to research a little bit more if you're going to start telling people your car is a BMW. Owned by BMW, yes. A BMW, no.
Geez, the car is not even built in a BMW factory.
The case of MINI and BMW is nothing like Lexus and Toyota, or Honda and Acura, or Nissan and Infiniti.
Because with those cars you can safely say one is the other. They are made under the same roof, by the same family of robots.
And in the door of a Bentley it will say manufactured by Volkswagon.
BMW never decided to use the name of a car of a company they owned. The name and brand Mini was exclusive. Like Land Rover is exclusive. BMW seperated the brands (they are not just names) that Rover owned.
I'll give you a good example. Just say Toyota came along and bought BMW. THat would mean Toyota now owns MINI, BMW, Rolls-Royce.
THen under their ownership they nearly went bankrupt and decided to sell MINI and BMW, but keep Rolls-Royce and make a new Phantom or something. That new Phantom would still be a Rolls-Royce. A japanese owned, british built, Rolls-royce.
Not a Toyota Phantom.
Not a Japanese Rolls-Royce.
This is exactly what happened to the MINI brand.
You may want to research a little bit more if you're going to start telling people your car is a BMW. Owned by BMW, yes. A BMW, no.
Geez, the car is not even built in a BMW factory.
The case of MINI and BMW is nothing like Lexus and Toyota, or Honda and Acura, or Nissan and Infiniti.
Because with those cars you can safely say one is the other. They are made under the same roof, by the same family of robots.
...and here is its successor at BMW's assembly line in Oxford.
URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1342234.stm
once again, I think this settles it. WE ALL DRIVE SMALL BMW's accept it!