R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 Okay I admit it... I CAN'T SHIFT!!!! :(

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Old Feb 3, 2005 | 07:17 PM
  #51  
Wraith1416's Avatar
Wraith1416
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Ferndale, MI
come on sid, thats WAY to easy
 
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 01:13 AM
  #52  
markmatley's Avatar
markmatley
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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You know, sometimes adjusting the seat height helps? I usually ride at a low seat height (its the front left handle i think) Try different riding positions! And practice...dont be afraid to get some whiplash, because sooner of later, your going to zooming around and causing more whiplash when you start to get the hang of it!!!


Good luck
 
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 05:18 AM
  #53  
CooperBeagle's Avatar
CooperBeagle
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,675
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From: South Bend, Indiana
Originally Posted by ChiliCooperS
I motored with...
I just want to be able to shift without thinking about it.
I don't know Mikey... Sometimes I wish I was just starting out like you are... The time when shifting, driving your first car, and all of that is brand new passes too quickly... Enjoy the learning!

Godspeed.
 
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 05:37 AM
  #54  
MarkS's Avatar
MarkS
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 683
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From: Grand Blanc, MI
Yep, keep practicing! My wife bravely purchased a Miata with a manual even though she had never driven a manual before and, with practice, she's gotten it just fine. Don't give up: it seems to be one of those things that just clicks all at once. I also agree that the MCS is a bit more tricky than some cars (the Miata is easier, IMO), and that the right shoes make a difference.

Mark
 
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 08:17 AM
  #55  
CmdrVimes's Avatar
CmdrVimes
Stuck in Reverse
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,812
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From: 127.0.0.1
Originally Posted by MarkS
Yep, keep practicing! My wife bravely purchased a Miata with a manual even though she had never driven a manual before and, with practice, she's gotten it just fine. Don't give up: it seems to be one of those things that just clicks all at once. I also agree that the MCS is a bit more tricky than some cars (the Miata is easier, IMO), and that the right shoes make a difference.

Mark
I bought my MCS back in september withou knowing how to drive a manual. Delivery date was October 30th, still didn't know how. I had my mother with me at the time because she was the one taking me to the dealer and she was familiar with a manual transmission. She drove the car home (now she wants one too). Went to a local HS parking lot and picked it up (took me a couple weekends because I was letting the clutch out too fast).

Now i'm fine with it. I still get a little touchy on hill starts because people in the area and morons and like to stop right on your bumper. Haven't stalled out the car since the first week I started driving it regularly. Haven't chirped the wheel unintentionally in a long while either.

oh yeah, my point was all it takes is a bit of motivation to get it down. From then on it's just practice, practice, practice.
 
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 06:23 PM
  #56  
lotsie's Avatar
lotsie
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Find a nice long road that has a speed of 40 MPH or so,and shift up and down between 2-3 gear in a MC,3000 RPM or so.Keep the car from changing speed,
and lurching.
Start out shifting slow,but work towards doing it fast,keeping it smooth.
Don't let the car lug about.Use 3000RPM at least to up shift.
Except from 1-2 in traffic.
 
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Old Aug 2, 2005 | 07:19 PM
  #57  
bambam's Avatar
bambam
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2005
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My car is like that between 1st and 2nd too. One trick is to shift really fast between 1 and 2 and time it so when you let the clutch out the rpms have fallen to just the right point so its smooth. The other trick is to just let the clutch out slow. The problem is even worse with the AC on so maybe you should practice with that on so when you drive with it off you will be better at it.

The drive by wire on this car has a short delay to it which makes it really hard to control the rpms with the gas pedal. Its my biggest complaint about the car and am hoping some upgrades will help that.
 
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Old Aug 2, 2005 | 07:35 PM
  #58  
lcubed's Avatar
lcubed
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 358
Likes: 1
From: metro dc
this thread reminds me of the tr4 i learned to drive a MT in.
that particular car had bad electrics and stalling usually meant
either pushing the tr4 home or walking home to get another
vehicle w/ jumper cables.

it certainly provided lots of incentive to learn how to get it right!!

keep practicing. after a while, even stop and go traffic can be driven
without much conscious effort.
 
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Old Aug 2, 2005 | 07:53 PM
  #59  
kenchan's Avatar
kenchan
6th Gear
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I just shift taking my time especially between 1-2 and let out the clutch
gently and smoothly. with the AC on, it's best to add a touch of
throttle to keep the flywheel spindown under your control and clutch
in a tad sooner so you get more time to smoothout the spindown.

it's a little tricky at first, but you shouldn't have to do anything quick
between 1-2. Good luck, it should be a seamless shift with no slipping.
:smile:


Originally Posted by bambam
My car is like that between 1st and 2nd too. One trick is to shift really fast between 1 and 2 and time it so when you let the clutch out the rpms have fallen to just the right point so its smooth. The other trick is to just let the clutch out slow. The problem is even worse with the AC on so maybe you should practice with that on so when you drive with it off you will be better at it.

The drive by wire on this car has a short delay to it which makes it really hard to control the rpms with the gas pedal. Its my biggest complaint about the car and am hoping some upgrades will help that.
 
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 04:09 AM
  #60  
greatgro's Avatar
greatgro
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,359
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by bambam
The drive by wire on this car has a short delay to it which makes it really hard to control the rpms with the gas pedal. Its my biggest complaint about the car and am hoping some upgrades will help that.
But the delay on the throttle makes UPSHIFTS extremely easy which makes these cars very easy to learn stick on, IMO. Unless of course you have that first gear bog or hesitation, then starting from a standstill or on a hill for a beginner could be a nightmare. But gear to gear upshifting couldn't be easier. That and the MINI clutch takes no pressure to push. You could easily drive these cars barefoot.
 
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 05:41 PM
  #61  
JCW Driver's Avatar
JCW Driver
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From: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted by biggripper
A word I have often heard but never understood...can someone explain (thoroughly) the concept of DOUBLE CLUTCHING.
Here's a reasonable explanation...not by me, but clipped from the web.

Now, if you have driven old cars, or trucks, or sports or racing cars, you will be amused at this play on words. That's because double-clutching is also a procedure to save wear and tear on your gearbox, and on your clutch, at the expense of a little extra work for your left leg. What exactly is double-clutching (or, as the British call it, "double de-clutching"), and why is it significant?

Let's say you're accelerating in second gear. When you're ready to shift into third, you decide not to use the standard approach, which is just to tromp on the clutch, take your foot off the gas, shove the shift lever into third, and let the clutch back out. Instead, you opt to double-clutch properly:

First, you take your foot off the gas and kick in the clutch. You shift into neutral, AND let the clutch out. You wait perhaps 0.3 to 1.0 seconds for the engine to slow down from its high revs, depending on how fast you were revving when you started to shift and how much inertia the engine has to slow down. THEN you kick in the clutch and shift into third, and let the clutch out quickly, feeding the gas appropriately. If you have judged it right, when you let the clutch out, there isn't any JERK. And when you shove the lever into third, the gears and engine are at a synchronized speed, so there's minimum wear on the synchronizers, which are the tiny clutches that bring the clutch plate and the gears into smooth synchrony. There's also usually less wear on the clutch plates.

What's the big deal? The main point is that when you try to shift into third gear, the engine has slowed itself and the clutch plate down to the right speed—just about the same speed as the gearbox—so it saves wear on the synchronizers and the clutch. It can also save shock and strain on the whole drive-train, because the speeds are just about synchronized when you let out the clutch.

Well, big deal, you say. Cars haven't needed double-clutching since the synchromesh transmission was popularized 50 years ago. Why bother? Why fool around with anachronistic motions? Isn't it just buying trouble? Even Tom and Ray Magliozzi* claim that double-clutching is silly and stupid and wasteful of energy. Ah, but I can give you reasons why it is beneficial.

First, in most cars, the actual gears are always in constant mesh, and the synchronizers only decide which pair of gears to connect to their shaft. But many trucks and some racing cars are still set up with a non-synchromesh gearbox. With trucks, because they have so many gears, it's noticeably more efficient not to have all of the gears in mesh all of the time. So with the "crash-box," you HAVE TO double-clutch, or you will not be able to shift. The same holds true for racing cars—to gain the last couple percent of efficiency, only one set of gears is in mesh at any time, and you have to actually synchronize their speeds or you can't get it in gear. Despite the obvious drawbacks of having to double-clutch, the gearbox is stronger and more efficient than a comparable synchromesh one, and has less tendency to overheat.

Other reasons for double-clutching: Because it is the right way to operate the clutch. Because it saves wear and tear on your synchronizers in the long run, if you're planning to run your car over 200,000 miles, as I do. Because it is fun to do. Because in very cold weather, (-10° F, for example) you may have to double-clutch to shift gears at all, at least for the first few miles.

One very important reason is that, if your clutch linkage ever fails, you can still shift and get home by double-clutching, getting the engine and gears' speeds synchronized and then just EASING the shifter into the right gear. In the last 1,050,000 miles of driving VWs, I have lost my clutch about 3 times, and each time, with careful planning, I've been able to drive home safely. One time I pulled into the Customs House at Calais, Maine, and discovered my clutch was out. I eased along carefully and managed to get all the way home, 350 miles, to Boston, where it was convenient to put the car in the shop to have the clutch repaired—much more convenient than in the middle of a vacation, or the middle of Maine.

Another reason is that on some old cars, first gear isn't synchromesh, so if you need to shift into first without coming to a full stop, you have to double-clutch. Also, a lot of cars these days are made with weak, chintzy synchros, so they soon wear out, and to drive them gracefully, you need to double-clutch.

Note, when down-shifting, you have to shift into neutral and then blip the throttle momentarily before you shift into the lower gear. It requires practice and a good feel, a good touch, to do it right, especially considering the embarrassing noises you make if you miss your shift into a low gear on a crash-box. For example, you should aim to have the revs just a little high, so if you miss, the engine will soon slow down, and then gears will be at the right speed to mesh and the cogs will slip in....
 
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 06:14 PM
  #62  
bambam's Avatar
bambam
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2005
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Greatgro, I was talking about when you hit the gas it accelerates with about a .5 to 1 second. What your talking about is when you let off the gas it hangs for about a second which is fine unless your shifting fast. When you let the clutch out too soon it will force your rpms down, watch the tach and you will see that. If you shift too slow your rpms will drop down too far which is next to impossible to bring back up with the gas pedal due to the delay. The whole trick to shifting smooth in the mini is to let the clutch out at the right time so when its all the way out your at the proper rpm without going to low. If you let the rpms go to low it will feel like your downshifting even though you go back into the gas considering the slight delay. I hope that made sense.


As far as double clutching goes. I used to drive semi with a non syncro tranny, 13 speed. The only time you use the clutch is to take off, after that you just shift and sychronize your rpms with road speed. When you downshift you pull it out of gear when letting off the gas, then rev it up with the gas pedal as you roll it into the next lower gear. When you upshift you just pull it into the next higher gear when the rpms drop to the right point, if you miss it you have to rev it back up because it will only go into gear at the right rpm which makes for a perfectly smooth shift everytime. I know older trucks you had to double clutch but thats way before my time.
 
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 06:25 PM
  #63  
Zman's Avatar
Zman
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Upstate New York
practice, practice

with lots of space around you, just try lettign the clutch out slowly in first gear (flat area). get the feel for when it starts to engage, when it is done engaging and let it idle along happily in first gear. practice this alot and you will be more comfortable with the clutch.

the goal is to have your foot off the clutch as much as possible during driving. no holding it there, riding it, covering it, etc. once you master it, the clutch is either depressed or your foot is not touching it.
 
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 09:10 PM
  #64  
hyobum's Avatar
hyobum
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How can you tell if your clutch is slipping?
 
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 09:32 PM
  #65  
ScurveS's Avatar
ScurveS
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: AZ
Who needs the clutch?

Jim
 
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 12:42 AM
  #66  
lotsie's Avatar
lotsie
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Originally Posted by hyobum
How can you tell if your clutch is slipping?
One way is get into 2nd gear, and at a mid RPM say 3500, cruise along, them stomp hard on the throttle. If the revs climb sharply, but speedo does not, well then your clutch is slipping.

This is a good way to tell, unless your speedo goes up sharply,with the revs. but you don't move forward much, then your clutch is probably ok, but your tires are toast
 
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