As someone who owned an MR2 Spyder prior to the Mini I must disagree. The spyder was a very emotional purchase. It's too inconvenient of a car not to be and I must add that I used to get positive comments everytime I drove that car. I know some consider the Spyders styling awkward and it never really sold that well, but I really loved that car. Hope Toyota considers staying in the mid-engine game.

 

Toyota Echo? What's an Echo? Do their owners wave at each other? Where can I see one? I'll check with Budget or Hertz tomorrow....Maybe "Rent a Wreck"?

 

You have to include the Scion xA and XB into this discussion, as both of these also ride on a Toyota Echo platform, hence thier econobox handling dynamics. The Scion tC is a different car altogether because it is essentially a Toyota Avensis (The European market Camry).

 

Before I started looking at a MINI, I had a Toyota Echo to drive as a courtesy car. As a cheap commuter car, it's not that bad a car. I would compare its purpose with that of a Smart Fortwo styling not included. The Echo is inexpensive to keep and well screwed together, if a bit dorky looking, in my opinion (some people think it looks rather nice).

However, if you need to take it out of the city or climb hills with curves and in some places, the road is banked the wrong direction, I would stay out of the Echo.

For those who think it feels faster, I didn't think it really was faster. It felt fast because it was light-weight in metal and plastics. But I found it understeered or lighted up the front wheels way to easily.

It's a total different driving experience to drive a MINI Cooper. I felt a lot safer driving a MINI than an Echo at any speed.

If it's 0-60 times you're after, you should consider something with a big American V8 in it.

 

There are many different models of cars available because they suit different people and their transportation needs and desires. The person who wants an Echo would probably not be happy with a MINI and vice-versa. I own a Chevrolet Avalanche and a MINI; two entirely different vehicles used for entirely different purposes. I enjoy them both, but for very different reasons. It would certainly be silly to try to compare them in any way. I love the way my MINI handles and I enjoy the relative economy, but it would be rather silly to try to load my family of four and tow a 4000# trailer with the MINI!

I use an enjoy each vehicle as it is appropriate.

 

I remember R&T ranting about the MCS-They said something verbatim along the lines of that the Mini had just disposed the previous slalom record holder, the Porsche 911 GT2, (which held 67.2) with a "maniac blitz" of 69.5 Sadly, the mcs only held the record for about a couple of months or so until the Enzo came and blew it out of the water with a 71+speed.
Still, the MINI was the faster car R&T had ever tested for slalom...
that says a lot.

 

I prefer the Cooper because of the substantial difference in looks and power. I greatly prefer the look of the Cooper to the S - especially the hood and grille. And I place a lot of importance on excellent fuel economy (this happens to be my biggest disappointment with the car). Don't get me wrong, I love to drive and I appreciate the handling, but I'd trade for a MINI One before I'd trade for an S.

I know this comes up all the time, usually as a hijack like this, but I can never resist chiming in.

 

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

- Inigo Montoya, Princess Bride

 

The wait is what it is. You'll tolerate it because you have no other option. Still...3 months seems excessive. Why so long. I had to wait beacause I wanted the LSD and it wasn't built until the 1st of the year (ordered in Nov). Why are you being told 3 months? What, are they stuffing the seats with some sort of special llama fur that needs to be ordered or something? Sounds like an unreasonable delay to me.

 

Brilliant Nuvolari!!! Gave me quite a chuckle.

 

GOD I hope so!

As of right now, I haven't even started to talk business yet. I went in, took a test drive, fell in love with the car, told them I'd be back in a couple months, and walked out.

While I was there, he told me to plan for 3 months. It was a very informal type of thing. I have a feeling he was just testing me to see my reaction. (letting me know that there IS in fact a wait) He also said they do 90% custom orders, and very rarely do people buy off the lot.

I'm hoping he gave me the worst case scenario, and that my car will come in sooner. Two months I could manage, three would be tough.

I guess when I place my order (sometime in the next couple weeks) they'll give me a more accurate estimate.

 

Different parts of the country have different levels of demand hence different wait times - the allocation to each dealership is the same irrespective of the order quantity at that dealership.

3 months is wonderful compared to some west coast wait times!

Some dealerships have cars in stock and no queue - then the wait time is just the build & ship time (about 8 weeks) unless you buy a pre-spec'ed one. But you may have to drive a long way or have the car shipped.
Better to deal face to face with a good dealership and wait a little longer.

 

As a west coaster, I would give my first born child (I don't have any yet) for a 3 month wait time. Try 10 months. I guess I will appreciate my new MCS that much more.

3 months...a small price to pay.

 

Of course. The Echo guy is talking about the Cooper not the S (until later he mentions the S also). That's all true. The Cooper is NOT a fast car by any means. It's a great handling car but I'm sure a lot of small cars with a 5 speed are just as fast or darn close. MINIs are not about straight speed - not even the S. But the Cooper is not about speed AT ALL. If that's important to you, then maybe a Cooper isn't for you. But if great classy looks, phenomenal handling, personalization, coolness and heritage mean anything to you, then a Cooper will suit you perfectly.

 

I'm hoping you're going to MINI of Peabody and not Herb Chambers? A year ago I ordered my MINI at MoP first week of Jan -- was told ~3 mos but it actually made it in 2 (full). MoP is one of the top selling dealers in the country and have a large number of cars in the factory "queue" -- my car was actually a CR that had been "ordered" prior. It was changed to my specs. (no probs at MoP but definately double and triple check your order specs)

 

Cool, the Cooper will suit me perfectly then.

 

I am absolutely going through MINI of Peabody. So far I've been very impressed with that place. (I've been there twice)

 

Oops! Forgot about MR Spyder! Yea I see your point - not a very popular car, but loved very much by those who have them. Unfortunately, it got canned for '06. I'm excited for Toyota to get their "supercar" out in the public eye - they need the image, bad.

 

Maybe it's just the timing of the order- I figured mine would come in in at least 3 months (ordered it in late oct) and it took a month and a half.. it had to sit at the dealership for almost 2 and a half months while i moved.. I'm not sure which is worse, having it ready and not being able to pick it up, or knowing it's on a boat somewhere..
best of luck with that..

 

they allowed you to keep it there? was it already paid for, etc. or did they wait the 2.5 months before the sale was finalized?

 

everywhere echos are under two different guises.. one is the boxy echo in japan that is under a different name...

the other is a hot hatch called the yaris/vitz in the other parts of the world.. there is a turbo powered vitz RS in japan getting about 150hp... now THAT's a MINI killer right there.. standard Echo hatchbacks with falken sports in the Toronto area BMW autocross constantly runs right up against the S and coopers of my area... not fun when you see them tilt sideways, hitting rev limiter and everything... but they are dead fast if in a tight enuf course with the right tires (falken azensis sport in my area for instance)

love the echo hatchback.. i dont believe the states have it but they are practical well built cars that are quite fun to drive.. not to mention pretty good looking.. granted it's no mini...

 

FYI, Honda's coming out w/ a small car too.....from 26th January article:

Honda Plans Car Smaller Than Civic for United States Posted: 1/26/05 10:15 a.m. CST

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=-1]By Kathy Jackson [/size][/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif][size=-1]AutoWeek[/size][/font]

DETROIT — Honda plans to sell in the United States a variation of the front-drive subcompact Honda Fit, which is sold in Japan and Europe.

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=-2]Honda will introduce to the U.S. market a car smaller than the Civic (pictured) in an attempt to recapture the youth market. [/size][/font]
Honda executives have said the company will bring a car smaller than the Civic to this country but until now have not identified it.

"It will be a variation of the Fit, and it will be here not too far in the future," said **** Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co. Inc.

"Toyota has done a good job with the Scion," he said. "So that's where we're looking, to bring back the youth we've lost. With the current cars we have, that segment has shrunk."

But unlike Scion, Honda will not establish a separate brand for the new small car, Colliver said.

Also, the small car will not be shipped bare like the Scion and accessorized according to dealer and customer orders.

"We had conversations on whether to bring it in slashed down but decided against it," he said. "We plan to load it up. It's better to build it the way they want it. We also looked at establishing a separate brand for the new car but decided against it."

He declined to provide any other details about the car.

Michael Robinet, vice president for global forecast services at CSM Worldwide in Farmington Hills, Mich., said the U.S. Fit will arrive early in 2006 as a 2007 model. He said it will be powered by a 1.5-liter engine equipped with dual overhead camshafts and direct fuel injection.

Some dealers believe the sticker price will be about $12,000. The base price of the 2005 Civic is $13,675, including a $515 destination charge.

Civic sales, aided by cut-rate loans, rose 3.2 percent to 309,196 last year.

Robinet said although Scion has done a good job attracting customers who want to accessorize their cars, he believes Honda will do well equipping its vehicles at the factory.

"Honda does a lot of production here, so they can more accurately predict what the customers want," Robinet said. "Honda would rather make sure it has the Honda quality through and through and their warranty on it. There is less room for error."

Toyota introduced its Scion youth brand nationally last year. It posted sales of 99,259 in 2004 versus 10,898 in 2003 when the vehicle was sold in limited markets. Scion has three models.

"We're all hoping Honda brings in a new product line with a more affordable car that our younger and less-affluent buyers can purchase," Larry Mallory, chairman of the Honda dealer council, said in a recent interview.

Mallory, owner of Honda of Kirkland in Kirkland, Wash., also said the dealers did not want a separate franchise for the small car: "The two-channel system they currently have, Honda and Acura, is enough to accommodate any and all new products coming out."

 

I put a deposit down when I ordered it and they knew that I was in NM when I ordered it in the last week of oct and was going to arrive in NC mid Jan, sooo they weren't going to sell it out from under me.. the deposit held it while I worked all the paperwork while I was still in NM and enroute to NC.. MINI dealerships are pretty accommodating - after all the papers were done - my car was delivered across the state to my driveway and the driver spent some time showing me all the goodies on the car.. they really take care of you.. makes driving even more fun.. my dealer even helped me find the club most of his clients join around here..

 

Wow, I've been worried that if I don't sell my current car in time, I'd havea HUGE problem, but after hearing this, maybe I'll be ok. Of course, I don't think I'll have a problem selling my car.