I have and would like to keep the R81 wheels on my R53. Even on the stock breaks, the clearance is tiiiiiight! I haven't done a lot with my brakes, but they are less than impressive, which is more noticeable now that the car is running and driving better than ever (lots of upkeep, 15% pulley, exhaust, CAI, WMW quick tune).

So, I want to improve the stock setup as much as possible while not doing things like changing to a larger caliper/ rotor. What do you recommend to get the most stopping power for the littlest investment on the stock setup?

Currently pads are good, but probably some cheap no name auto zone things as was the previous owners style. Rotors are fresh and true with very little lip. Hoses are pretty aged but functional. Hard lines are new, brakes are currently well bled, etc. May have a small vacuum leak in the booster.

pretty tight under there.

 

Something to ponder..!

Friction creates the stopping power...right ?
With all of the cool holes and slots in your rotors, that's a bunch of material that...does not...create friction anymore..!
At one point many years back, the way the pads were made, they created and expelled gasses from the heat. The holes and grooves helped keep the pads against the rotors. That's...not...a requirement any longer. Pads are manufacturers much better nowadays, and don't outgas like they used to.

Cool to some, but mostly useless.

Mike

 

Well, I cant say I know enough about rotors to support or defend the idea that the grooves and venting reduce the stopping effectiveness of the rotors. However, I do know that the rotors are in good shape, and if I can upgrade other components around them to make my brakes more effective, that would probably be my preference, so as not to incur extra expense. After they wear out, or if really necessary to improve performance, I would consider it.

Looking at the following:
-Upgrade pads to a ceramic EBC green- or other pad that is streetable, not track oriented
-Redo rubber brake hoses with stainless braided and rebleed brakes
-Maybe redo caliper piston seals/ bores

What other stock system upgrades are even available? Anyone have a better pad recommendation?

 

Best thing you can do to improve brake performance is better pads and stickier tires. If you can lock up the wheels as is, or activate ABS, your tires are the limiters. If you can't lock up the brakes, your pads need upgrading.

 

Besides all that was mentioned above, stock R56 - R5(X) non-S calipers might be an option if they’ll clear your wheels. They have larger pads than the R53 for more friction, but use a rotor that's almost the same diameter, 276mm vs 280mm if the info on the 'net is correct.

Although the R56 S and non-S calipers are the same, the carrier/mounting bracket is different for the different sized rotors. The brackets can be changed, but this usually adds significantly to the cost and can be hard to find separately so getting the correct assemblies the first time is best.

That’s what’s bad with a lot of the poor man’s JCW upgrade and question threads. “R56 calipers” is often used loosely and don’t stress only S caliper assemblies will fit the 294mm rotors.

 

So, let me see if I understand- if I can get a set of used non s r56 calipers w/ their brackets, they should be usable on the R53? Any idea where I might find out if those are any larger than the stock R53 calipers and brackets. If they are any larger at all, I doubt they would clear.

 

Interesting. I currently have my front left ABS sensor out because the tone ring/ wheel bearing need replacing. As soon as I have the wheel bearing sorted next week and ABS functional, I will see if I can light the ABS up. I suspect my tires are better than my brake pads. I have michelin cross climate in a really squishy and large (relative to the mini) 195/65/15. They roll a bit in the corners, but seem to have good grip and are just about 2k miles old. As I said earlier, I think the pads are probably cheapo auto zone specials if I guess from other parts I have removed from the car.

 

There used to be a great source of info on this, but I think the page no longer exists. It was about 1st gen MINI brake upgrades and went through 5 stages. I think they were 1 - new pads, 2 - non-S R56 calipers, e - R53 JCW kit or R56 S calipers, and I cant remember the last two. One was a big brake kit like Wilwood and the other was something either above or below that. It went into depth on the details of each stage. It also had technical drawings and specs of several different calipers and their pad sizes. I think most of this info might have been from rebuild manufacturers. This info might be available from some online auto parts place like rock auto or the rebuilders site.

I’ll post the link if I can find it, but I originally found it in one of the poor man’s JCW threads here or on MA.

 

sounds like it might have relevant info. I will have to see what I can find on those r56 non s calipers.

 

Later Gen 1 Mini JCW brakes will be a direct swap for the R53 brakes. Same size and you get slotted/cross drilled rotors. Then buy some nice race pads.

 

are you certain the calipers are the same size as stock? I am on the 15” r81 wheels and there is zero additional room under there.

 

Have been reading up. According to this thread

https://www.minitorque.com/threads/r53-front-brakes-to-r53-jcw-r56-cooper-s-specification-%E2%80%93-the-definitive-guide.19858/

the r53 jcw brakes fit, but I am still unclear whether:

a) they need a different carrier to be run
b) the actual caliper body is any bigger than the stock S r53 setup
c) they can be run on the smaller discs

 

YES the R56 NON S calipers and rotors will fit behind hollie wheels.

You will need the conversion lines to fit them, but otherwise they will bolt onto the R50/R53
https://www.waymotorworks.com/stainl...rsion-kit.html

 

How do you like the 195/65’s? Too squishy? I am contemplating the same setup. Or maybe either 205/55? 195/60? I like the look of the fat tire but I still want it to roll like a Mini!!!

 

I like them a lot so far- michelin cross climate +. They are supposed to be a winter tire that still offers grip in the dry and doesnt wear too fast. They have more bounce and roll than the 17in all seasons I had on, but I don't mind. I live near some rough roads and railroad tracks and like a little suspension in my tires. I still have my s lites and tires I can put back on, so I plan to rotate between the two sets in the next year or so.

 

are those even worth the time swapping on?

 

This. At least on the street....solid OEM type rotors will stop you faster than drilled and slotted rotors. I have to laugh at all the guys I see with their new drilled and slotted rotors, and how they stop "so much faster now". Nope....sorry.

 

I understand what you guys are saying about solid vs. drilled/ slotted. However, my rotors are the newest, least in need of replacement part of my current braking equipment I was hoping to do pretty much everything but those- my soft lines are crusty, pads are cheapos, rear calipers are ok, but front are pretty aged, etc. I am starting to get the picture. I think I may just do a nice set of pads for now with my current rotors, calipers, and lines, then upgrade rotors, pads, discs, calipers and lines when things need changing again. If I am doing everything, it ends up being a pretty big investment- was hoping to replace bit by bit.

 

I would try a good set of pads first....then maybe some SS lines.

 

I just ordered coated drilled n slotted rotors , ceramic pads and ss brakelines ..I'm curious also my self to see what improvements it offers .

 

Like others have said...drilled and slotted rotors provide less friction and don't stop as good as solid ones. Also, watch out for cracking between the drilled holes.......

Hopefully the ceramic pads you got aren't like all the ones I've had in the past. When they are cold they don't want to stop at all..... horrible initial bite. They keep your wheels cleaner......but I'd rather have a semi metallic pad that bites hard even when cold.

 

I couldn't disagree more , my thunderbird i used to have without drilled and slotted rotors, when running it very hard the rotors WOULD over heat and warp sometimes or overheat and get terrrrrrrible brake fade , even switching to ebays cheapest drilled n slotted sets with better pads it made HUGE improvements in reducing brake fade and they recovered much quicker too.. a little sportier driving and these stock brakes ARE JUST GARABAGE ! IMO the brakes are firsure these cars weakpoint..
and I'm like the O.P , I LOVE my 15in rim with chunky tires setup. I HATE thin tires and ALWAYS have. I never liked how they look OR ride.

 

It's simple physics....nothing more, nothing less.

Less rotor to pad contact (because you have holes and slots) = less friction. Less friction = longer stopping distance.

Your brake fade had to do with your pad type/material....nothing to do with your rotors.

 

drilled are bad can you cancel the order?!? seriously it's a joke at autocros/trackdays, point at the guy with drilled rotors and laugh they are for the cars & coffee crowd

 

I hope anyone who reads your post, also reads your post history, and then ignores it.


Some notes before tackling the "best brake setup" (all of this has been covered before):
- Brakes actually don't "stop" the car. Tires do. Brakes just speed up the process. It's why having the "greatest" brakes in the world on a icy road means almost nothing.
- Brake fade is when there's too much heat in the system (fluid, rotors, pads, calipers, etc). Getting rid of this heat as quick as possible or preventing it is ultimately the goal of larger rotors and brake ducts.
- Stopping distances and times change. You doing a panic stop at 70mph on a freeway is different than someone doing 70-0mph stops 10 times. Race pads generally take longer and further to stop a car during panic stops than the repetitive stops you'd see on a road course.
- Larger rotors don't equate to shorter stopping panic stops. They equate to better fade resistance, which means they can handle repetitive stops better.
- People who say they had better brakes after replacing their worn out components with x-drilled rotors are confused. I could replace a set of 5 year old Toyo RRs with some Walmart brand tires and have better grip -- that doesn't mean the Walmart tires are better.
- Stainless braided brake lines are good for brake pedal feel, they do nothing else. For street cars, run rubber lines -- They are easier to inspect for wear and damage over the braided lines that can hide damage/worn the rubber lines underneath.
- The easiest way to test your brake system is: Slam on the brakes. If your tires lock up and you're sliding, you need better tires. If you can't (ignoring ABS involvement), your brakes need attention.

So, with that all said (and there's a ton more to dig thru), the best braking setup is:
- The best tires you can afford and safety drive in your area. It's winter for many and driving around on some fresh A7s would be insanely unsafe.
- Properly bedded brake pads. Depending on your driving style, you can use a more performance oriented pad or autozone specials. Performance pad if you do spirited driving and want the better fade resistance at the sacrifice of marginally worse panic stop performance -- or autozone specials which will have the inverse.
- Solid, vented, two piece rotors. The two-piece and vented design will help with fade resistance and the solid rotor will help with the panic stops.
- Fresh and properly bled brake fluid.
- Good condition brake lines.

Good luck