So from what I'm seeing....lots of you guys are saying that it's ok to go with the solid crank pullleys...no need for the rubber damper type like the OEM harmonic balancer? Mine is getting old...thinking about using one of the light weight solid designs.....just don't want to cause any issues with motor harmonics of vibration.

 

Here's what has been posted in the past from Way. Although the second quote only refers to lightweight, I think any undampened pulley is implied.

"I don't recommend any of the aluminum crank pullies that get rid of the damper. Without the damper I fear the additional wear on the bearing will cause the engine not to live as long as it should."

"This always seems to be a topic when discussing crank pulleys. I have taken apart engines that have had the lightweight pulleys and the bearings always show 5 times the wear they should have. There are other issues that come with the lightweight pulleys. But the bearing damage alone is enough to not go lightweight.
Also when you install the ATI Damper you will notice your car will idle smoother because it balances better than the stock one does. I use an ATI on both my street car and my race car and can't recommend it anymore."

 

That makes sense. If a solid one was just as good as the ones with the fluid/rubber like the OEM one......they probably would have used a solid one right out of the factory.

 

Here's a good possibility:

http://new.minimania.com/part/NME508...r-R53-Cooper-S

This unit is a far better design, more durable, and Costs LESS than the factory replacement! $279.50

And another:

http://new.minimania.com/part/NME507...Damper-R52-R53
$349.95

Drive Hard. Drive Safe. Keep Grinning.

 

funny rb mentioned "ways" statement because I was going to say he's the only one who's ever had any claim of evidence of wear. Here's a thread I made awhile back you might be interested in: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nk-pulley.html
Ps, thinking that cars are built with the best designed parts from the factory is laughable, they can't even make a dipstick that doesn't break or the countless other parts made of plastic that fail over and over again.

 

Yeah, I tried to collect data...but nobody is biting on my Google Form.

I went ahead and bought a used OEM from NorthWestEuro for the meanwhile. Hopefully in the next few months I'll be able to actually get some data from the 100-or-so people still on the R53 section of this forum...but probably not.

I think the majority of folks who ran those solid pulleys have long moved on...but my generation of budget-oriented, home-built collegiate MINI owners could probably use the data...who knows.

Any ideas where else I should post this?

 

Not sure if he said anything in his posts, but Unbreakable Lump would probably know if there was a real risk in running a lightweight or undampened pulley. He had a lot of interesting info on the development of these engines. Haven't seen any posts from him in a while... hopefully he'll be back.

 

I've only ever heard personally people saying that the undampened causes premature wear. But never have evidence to back it up. But what's premature? Just using random numbers here that have no bearing on facts. If the average life were say 300k, and by premature you mean 250k, you could almost chalk that up to the fact that people who would bother to install a lightweight pulley are also the same people that will be running their cars a lot harder, which I think would be the major contributing factor to premature wear.

That's my thoughts on the matter, but I have no evidence myself either.

I might not currently be a starving college student, but I built an 86 rx7 on college budget, once you do that you never lose the mindset lol.

 

I actually talked to him about it, he gave me the information of the engine balance and whatnot which also contributed to my decision.

 

Dampened pulleys are for engine longevity. If it wasn't a real concern, car makers would straight up produce all their cars with solid pulleys, don't you think? Probably cheaper in material and time as well since it's all CNC instead of making and assembling at least 3 parts together.

There may be not that many real world datas out there about it, but is there that many real world datas for gains with a lightweight pulleys? Most of the time, it comes down to budget more than anything else. ATI will try to convince you that dampened pulleys are better, while lightweight pulleys manufacturers will try to convince you that a damper isn't required and that you'll gain hp. I had one on my Sunfire, but I'll get the ATI for the MINI, as I plan on keeping it long enough for it to matter. The price is there because the construction is more complex, but for me, it's really for the peace of mind of knowing that it was designed like this for a reason in the first place.

 

Makers recall cars for faulty designed parts all the time. There's plenty of parts that turned out to be bad desings but they pose no safety risks, and would cost the company more to recall the part than to just replace the ones that fail.

Everything car companies do is based on financial impact.

Manufacturer train of thought;

Will it hurt someone? No.
Is there an exceptionally high amount of parts failing? No.
Is it cheaper to replace the few that come in than to recall them all? Yes.

Solution; Ignore the problem

 

There's a guy with an evo that was destroying main bearings and he had a lightweight pulley. He took his engine apart a bunch of times (700hp car) and claimed that switching back to an dampened pulley (typo) solved his bearing issue. Of course, it's not the same hp and rpm ranges as a 1.6 in a MINI, but still, I consider this to be a good example of what can happen, even if it might not be common.

 

A harmonic balancer is not the same as a dampened pulley. Dampening just absorbs vibrations, a harmonic balancer is balanced to compensate for an unbalanced crankshaft. Switching from a harmonic balancer to a pulley not balanced for the shaft is like take the weights off your rim sort of. But if it's just dampened it's usually to prevent vibration to the rest of the accessories run by the crank. Which for the most part the tensioner can handle if they aren't about to go out themselves.

A good example of just because a company made something doesn't mean it's good is the fuel pulsation dampener on a 13b rotary motor. It was designed to prevent to much fluctuation in the fuel pressure. But it was after the pressure regulator, which does the same thing. The dampener is prone to rupture and spray fuel on the hot exhaust right below it, poof there goes your car up in flames. The solution to fixing this is a simple banjo bolt.

People will freak out and tell you it's required! You will kill your motor with rich and lean conditions without the dampener. But not one person could say it actually happened to them or someone they directly knew. It was always second hand stories someone told them they read. But tons of people have deleted the dampener with absolutely no ill effects. Me included. I ran a motor to 270k with the dampener deleted with a banjo bolt.

Just like there's plenty of people on here running the lightweight pulleys with no problem and a ton that have been told that it's a bad idea but no first hand proof.

I still get the feeling that the motors with wear were from cars that were driven harder than most. No one tears apart a perfect running motor. So we never see cranks with lightweight pulleys and no damage because they are still running.

 

an unbalanced pulley will do more damage than a non harmonic. harmonic damage only happens at a certain time (frequency) unbalanced will do damage all along the rpm range and get worse with higher rpm

 

We are talking about undampened not unbalanced.

Kinda like a pulley with a shock absorber.