I don't get some of the rationale here. I work for a major Tier 1 automotive supplier. I don't think most people understand the amount of testing that goes into each and every single part on a vehicle these days. That same testing is NOT done on aftermarket parts.

It is quite simple, really. Why do you suppose the pulley that comes on the car is the size that it is? It isn't because BMW/MINI only want us to have 163 horsepower. It is because the system was designed, tested, and proven acceptably reliable at that level. Period. If the JCW system, which is warrantied, has a pulley that is effectively a 13.8% reduction, then also that was designed, tested, and proven acceptably reliable. But guess what? 15%, 17%, 19%, These HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED.

Would you, as a car manufacturer or supplier, want to assume financial responsibility for an untested product, which was added to a vehicle by and individual with undeterminable skills?

The fact is, 15 > 13.8. So the water pump, in this case, is being driven 1.2% beyond its proven reliability. I wouldn't warranty it either. To go further, what if it was an aftermarket 10% pully? Even slower than the JCW. I still wouldn't warranty it, based on the fact that it is being driven faster than stock. Part of the huge cost of the JCW is, in fact, the warranty on those parts that are going to be worked harder.

I could go on, but lets leave it at that one of our products lines is Garret Turbochargers, and we've seen all sorts of creative ways to blow stuff up and then blame it on the manufacturer.

 

Just to clarify, is there a JCW pulley available from the dealer that they can install (without installing the complete JCW kit) and not affect the warranty?

 

Do I think people should be allowed to just mutilate their cars with no regard for the original engineering and expect the Manuafacture or Dealer to put back together at there expense, of course not. I don't think the dealer or manuafacture should imediately escape their responsibilities either. The law agrees.

If the water pump is tested to run at a increase of 13.8% for let's say 100,000 miles with a acceptable rate of failure. Then one that fails at 12,000 miles at 15% increase, would have likely failed well below 50,000 miles and is a "BAD" waterpump. Now if the dealer wants to pony up the part, and charge the customer for the labor, because he is not without responsibility, that's GOOD customer service. If a manuafacture wants to shirk any and all responsibility, and ignore the burden of proof as required by law, in this country, that's BAD customer service, arrogance and in my opinion, not worthy of your buisness either. Each case is different and too imediately assume that every situation is a oppurtunity to say, YEP, you should have bought a JCW, $1000 please, before they have even looked past a intake or some other mod? Not my kinda people, you can have em.

Yet dealers seem to take great pride with a touch of arrogance pointing it out to you.
My service manager had the stones to sit in my car the other day and tell me the whole left side of my dash was now out of warranty because I broke a clip off a different panel installing a remote Radar Detector. (Keep in mind he did this while I was awaiting the repair of a problem that was "unrepeatable" after they had my car 5 days. Yet, somehow had suddenly become repeatable when they tried to deliver my car to me!!! It must have been a friggin miracle !!!!)
All I could think of was, yeah, I know it is, that's why it's plugged into the lighter, because you would have tried to void my entire electrical warranty too !!!

BMW can do this, if they want. I can't stop them, I won't even try. I'll just take my buisness elsewhere. They may treat there customer even worse, who knows. Hopefully I will eventualy find a company that is focused on repeat buisness, customer loyality and treating their customers fairly, as individuals and not denying warranty claims just to save a quick buck.

 

I'll agree that some dealers are not completely honest. But focus that on the dealer, not the brand. The dealers are not in any way employed by BMW/MINI. I drive two hours to get to a dealer that I like better than one that is an hour away. Other people like the closer dealer better. To each his own.

The Magnussen-Moss act is there to protect the customer from bad dealers. But in this specific case, with the water pump being driven by the supercharger, I have to agree with the seller.

I have aftermarket springs and rear swaybar on my car. I expect that pretty much everything associated with the suspension is void. I expect that I won't get any rattles fixed. I expect that quite possible even my steering system is void. I expect my powertrain and electrical warranties to be secure. Does that mean that there could be a component in my suspension that fails that isn't caused by my springs/swaybar? Sure. But proving it is going to be tough, and the fact of the matter is, I don't have 100,000 mile equivalency testing of my setup to prove that I'm okay.

From my experiences with the automotive OEMs, they are all about the same. Some build vehicles with better quality than others. There are always going to be issues with certain parts. VW/Audi has had fuel injector issues. BMW had 3 series radiator fans making cars catch fire. And blowing up M3 motors. How many recalls did Ford do on the Focus? The fact of the matter is, the only truly safe companies to buy from are probably Honda and Toyota. And for the most part, they build pretty boring cars. And they won't cover aftermarket parts any better than MINI.

 

>>The dealers are not in any way employed by BMW/MINI.

Ok, well I have learned something then, I didn't know that. Thanks.

 

>> >>The dealers are not in any way employed by BMW/MINI.
>>
>>Ok, well I have learned something then, I didn't know that. Thanks.
>>
Unless they are owned by BMW as mine is and several others are.

 

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but since a JCW kit was installed and to do that the supercharger was changed and to do that the WATERPUMP was removed and re-installed could it have been damaged? Could the seal have been installed incorrectly?

Just something to ponder.

 

i'm not an expert on "deep" car mods.
IMO, cars were tested to run in many situation and it designed to driven by different type of people.
Some may drive 1000 miles a year some might do 10000 a year. JCW pulley designed to be 13.8% reduction maybe does make sense. How many people drive JCW MINI as a VW bug. IMO, if i have a JCW i will push it harder than a stock. i have a 15% on mine. I dont do redline at all. I just want power! i dont race it much, but i still race it. i dont think the engine can not stand the way i drive(never too hard) and my 15% pulley on. if the engine fail to do so, i think i should find another car instead.

I was watching history channel last night, they talk about history of drag racing. see the way people mod their car and the way they drive, i think the quality of the cars should be much better than it was from the 60's.

i know people has 19% with more than 36k miles on and they race it HARD. so far they do not have an issue with it. I also see people has a 5k Cooper with damaged engine with no reason. MINI for some reason to me, it is not a very good quality car as we all know about the yo-yo,stumble. engine, trans, exterior parts, windshield.... bla bla bla!

You might never know what really happened to your car. why bother. i dont do redline, i dont do drage racing, i dont do 360s with my car. i only drive it for fun and i dont want to break it by push it too hard. the only thing as a non professional car mods fan can do so far, is drive it for fun and forget about the problem. it happens it happens. i can help much anyway.

If you got the guts to do a pulley, do it. if you worry about it too much, stay with the stock. nothing is risk free. Just dont ask and dont bother!

 

>>BMW can do this, if they want. I can't stop them, I won't even try. I'll just take my buisness elsewhere. They may treat there customer even worse, who knows. Hopefully I will eventualy find a company that is focused on repeat buisness, customer loyality and treating their customers fairly, as individuals and not denying warranty claims just to save a quick buck.
>>


YellowMiniS......thank you for your most authoritative posts on the subject, I would completely agree with you except for one fact.....you own a BRG job......that makes you suspect in my book.....and i'd post a smilie but the icons don't work for me.....don't know why......

 

>>
>>I can't believe how many people aren't reading what is being said here!!!
>>
>>THE WATER PUMP IS DIRECTLY CONNECECTED (THROUGH GEARS) TO THE BACK OF THE SUPERCHARGER. THE WATER PUMP IS NOT PULLEY DRIVEN BUT DRIVEN OFF OF THE SUPERCHARGER. SPIN THE SUPERCHARGER FASTER AND YOU PUMP WATER FASTER!!!!
>>
>>Sorry for the rant but it had been said 3-4 times in this thread and yet people are still not getting it!!! The water pump is actually connected to the supercharger, not with a belt but an actual physical connections.
>>
>>Check out the episode of Tuner Transformation I was on, Ian Cull has a video of it online, they show the entire assembly and show them removing the stock waterpump from the supercharger to connect to the "new" JCW supercharger.
>>
>>Paul

This is kind of off topic but I think that this is the best and most appropriate use of capital letters that I have ever seen on this site.

(and by kind of off topic I meant totally irrelevent)

 

>>Just to clarify, is there a JCW pulley available from the dealer that they can install (without installing the complete JCW kit) and not affect the warranty?

Since the JCW is sold as a complete "kit" and tested as a package, including a different supercharger (not just the reduction pulley), head, exhaust, ECU, etc... My guess is that the warranty most likely will not be honored unless the entire kit is purchased and moreover, installed by a MINI dealership.


_________________

 

davescumini....AMEN to that. While it is fair for aftermarket suppliers to develop and sell their gear, whatever it is, it behooves us as consumers to be fully aware of the implications. Some of us will opt to run the risk on the warranty (I know I have) but let us make sure that when we do we do so with eyes WIDE OPEN and be willing and able to live with the consequences.
If there is a slight nagging doubt in your mind, I say keep that baby stock until 36001 miles have elapsed and THEN have at it......otherwise, you are just setting yourself up for nasty surprises that really are NOT surprises.....

 

>>YellowMiniS......thank you for your most authoritative posts on the subject, I would completely agree with you except for one fact.....you own a BRG job......that makes you suspect in my book.....and i'd post a smilie but the icons don't work for me.....don't know why......
>>

I may have a BRG job, but I'm in denial, as you can tell by my username! :smile:

 

>>I don't get some of the rationale here. I work for a major Tier 1 automotive supplier. I don't think most people understand the amount of testing that goes into each and every single part on a vehicle these days. That same testing is NOT done on aftermarket parts.
>>
>>It is quite simple, really. Why do you suppose the pulley that comes on the car is the size that it is? It isn't because BMW/MINI only want us to have 163 horsepower. It is because the system was designed, tested, and proven acceptably reliable at that level. Period. If the JCW system, which is warrantied, has a pulley that is effectively a 13.8% reduction, then also that was designed, tested, and proven acceptably reliable. But guess what? 15%, 17%, 19%, These HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED.
>>
>>Would you, as a car manufacturer or supplier, want to assume financial responsibility for an untested product, which was added to a vehicle by and individual with undeterminable skills?
>>
>>The fact is, 15 > 13.8. So the water pump, in this case, is being driven 1.2% beyond its proven reliability. I wouldn't warranty it either. To go further, what if it was an aftermarket 10% pully? Even slower than the JCW. I still wouldn't warranty it, based on the fact that it is being driven faster than stock. Part of the huge cost of the JCW is, in fact, the warranty on those parts that are going to be worked harder.
>>
>>I could go on, but lets leave it at that one of our products lines is Garret Turbochargers, and we've seen all sorts of creative ways to blow stuff up and then blame it on the manufacturer.


I think you give the manufacturers too much credit. While some do a lot of testing on some pieces you may be suprised how much is not really tested, and you may also be suprised at how little integration testing is done. I wouldn't be suprised if the pulley design was dictated by Eaton as a standard size for their M45 on 1.6 liter cars. BMW decided to go with that as that fit their 160-170hp range they were looking for. BMW ran through some 100,000 mile tests, the supercharger held up and they went with it. I doubt Eaton did any tests on the pulley on the Chrysler engine, and I doubt that BMW tested all sorts of pulleys to see the limit.

 

Some people obviously have no idea what it takes to get an automobile from concept to showroom. never mind an engine family or accesories for same

 

>>Trying to remember the basic pump theory from many years ago . . . .
>>
>>To the best of my recollection, most automotive water pumps suffer from some amount of cavitation. Due in part to poor head, not enough volumn of water above the pump suction, and low system pressure, about 14 psi I think. So, you can reduce cavitation by raising system pressure, attach a pressurized head tank, or increasing overall system head, again attach a large head tank above the pump suction. Neither option adds to speed not overall goos looks of the car.
>>
>>So, you live with pump cavitation in autos and do your best, by design, to reduce the impact. I you have seen a centrifugal pump that has failed from cavitation, it is not pretty, but I have never seen a automotive pump suffer a failure due to cavitation alone. I have seen water pumps that failed due to AGE and cavitation, but not cavitation alone.
>>

While your points may be valid, I would make a semi-educated guess that the water pump on a MINI is under constant saturation due to the coolant reservior at a higher elevaion in the car.

For the truely paranoid, simply replace the water pump as part of the 2-year coolant change. While obviously no minor task, it appears fairly straightforward. Granted, this is service most neglect anyway...

 

Sorry, just read through this thread quickly and am a little confused. Seems like the consistent assumption throughout is that there is no difference in the water pump drive gearing in the jcw supercharger. I thought it was changed to spin the pump at "stock" speeds, and that was one of the reasons they swap out the whole unit, rather than just throw on a pulley. Am I wrong about this?

 

A comment to this article reads:

Just a comment, I know, but the bolded text suggests that JCW makes specific alterations to prevent added stress to the water pump.

 

>>Don't you have the JCW? Why does the JCW pulley suddenly void its own warranty?


Its their product installed by their people.

Their rules

 

>>Just a comment, I know, but the bolded text suggests that JCW makes specific alterations to prevent added stress to the water pump.

Thanks, dlaugh. That's what I understood - this was one of the "off setting" modifications in the JCW kit to maintain long-term and peak-stress reliability. The other big one being the head work to improve flow and reduce heat build up. I'm assuming the JCW software includes many reliability-focused tweaks as well.