ah it is reveiled! thx BC28 for the pics....now that i see, it figures if the coolant speed is gonna be governed it might as well be by the supercharger ( IT's speed being indicative of cooling demand ) i wonder about a "smart" electric waterpump ..or would it be too much of an electical load..dang! supercharger drives the water pump: genius design or achilles heel....

 

>> quote 2cool:
>>Also, the belt drives the power steering, alternator, and the air conditioning compressor, not just the blower. Its just hard to see that from the top with everything right up against the passenger fender well.
>>

Isn't the power steering pump electrically driven, hence the vulnerable PS cooling fan (which on '02s is on the same circuit as the radiator fan...)

 

>>
>>If the water pump is driven off the supercharger, they probably have a valid argument for voiding water pump warranty on cars with aftermarket pulleys.
>>

Yes, it would however be a much more valid claim if BMW was replacing the water pump in JCW's with a more robust unit. Since they are not, they are either short changing JCW buyers, or scapegoating there reponsibilitys towards people with aftermarket pulleys. I will let the experts make that call.

 

Eric_Rowland, you're correct sir, I was just in rant mode and let conventional engine setups creep into my explanation. Easy to get frustrated when a 3 dimensional visualization that seems obvious proves to be confounding to some... low patience factor here, I am afraid.

 

Seems like supercharger/water pump mechanics are cleared up now, but I remember all the "cavitation" threads regarding reduction pulleys. The concern being that the smaller pulley would cause the now faster-spinning water pump to cavitate...just like in "U571"..."I hear spashes! Cavitation!!"

 

Though I have an MC and not an S this is an interesting thread. It seems that unless money is not an issue you should strongly consider living with a 0-60 time of around 7.5 seconds, which in my book is not slow. Even though there are laws that supposely prevent the manufactor from denying all claims due to a mod, it's still risky to make changes, at least those such as the pulley that are obvious even to the typical semi-trained service person. Paying for a $1,000 water pump could quickly suck the fun out of the MINI experience, at least in my book.

Hope my window tint and static-cling flag doesn't void my warranty. Got a feeling a lot of MINI owners will start considering a sell/trade as their car approaches the 5yr./50,000 mile mark.


R.E.

 

If you're gonna mod an engine with a power pulley, just change the darn thing back to stock before taking it in to the dealer!

 

Just to clear things up we here at MiniDivision are concerned about
your concerns but really don't give a crap about you after you buy
the car. I mean if you had to sit at a computer all day answering
questions would you be happy. Hell, I'm not! I go home and drink till
I pass out after work and you would to you bunch of smartasses.
Thanks for your concern. If you have any other questions speak with
your Motoring Advisor.
Have a nice day!!
MiniDivision

 

Well the other (and somewhat costly option I admit) is to pay your dealer to install the pulley. MINI of Sterling will do this, and if they do they labor, they will honor your warantee...

 

but then you have to go to that dealer over and over again to deal with your car.. so unless its local.. no option. I have no local dealer, as far as i know - in philly - that is "pulley-friendly"

other mods, yes.. but not hte pulley

 

>>but then you have to go to that dealer over and over again to deal with your car.. so unless its local.. no option. I have no local dealer, as far as i know - in philly - that is "pulley-friendly"
>>

If you are in Philly you aren't that far from Sterling VA. They want $650 for the pulley and install (includes new belt too). I figure that's only $150 more or so than it would cost me to have Helix do it since I would have to drive up (gas + lunch). $150 for the piece of mind of keeping the waranty seems worth it.

 

>>The pulley drives the blower, on the rear of the blower the water pump is driven by a gear off of the blower rotors. So yes, it does indeed rotate faster if you use a smaller pulley... how else does the blower make more boost with the smaller pulley? It spins faster in relation to crankshaft rotation. Blower spins faster = water pump spins faster. Pretty darn obvious to me. Of course I have dissassembled one of our superchargers, so I am not operating just on assumption.
>>
>>Also, the belt drives the power steering, alternator, and the air conditioning compressor, not just the blower. Its just hard to see that from the top with everything right up against the passenger fender well.
>>
>>_________________
>>

 

>>If you're gonna mod an engine with a power pulley, just change the darn thing back to stock before taking it in to the dealer!

that would be difficult w/o an extra supercharger. afaik, the original pully cannot be put back on.

 

>>If you're gonna mod an engine with a power pulley, just change the darn thing back to stock before taking it in to the dealer!

Obviously you do not have a pulley mod. You cannot just put the pulley back on. At least not without obvious signs of doing so... You would have to torch it up to about 500 degrees (thus melting off the paint) and hope to get it properly aligned. This entire cover-up will cost you $$ nearly as much as footing the repair bill.

 

>>Hope my window tint and static-cling flag doesn't void my warranty.
>>

resmini, because of the placement of the said static-cling flag and window tint, all factory parts below and contained within, are thus void of warranty agreement. MINI will however, at it's sole discretion, warrantee the key fob.

 

Reading these posts, only confirm time and time again, that I made the right decision by keeping my '04 MCS bone stock. To me the factory power is more than enough for my daily driving needs and wants and if I ever have the desire to bring the car to the next level, then the JCW kit will be right up my alley.

 

yea mines stock too ( it's a lease w/option to buy ) maybe i'll just get a bigger swaybar that can make me puke & grin doing 70 through 15mph turns..and leave the speed to Racer X

 

The other nice thing to do is READ the little book they give you with the car, particularly the part that says something like "Warranty"....BEFORE you buy the car.
BTW....water pump in my audi A4 went belly up....$1200 bucks at the dealer that one.....nothing to be done...$85.00 bucks an hour adds up REAL fast.

 

>>
>>>>Hope my window tint and static-cling flag doesn't void my warranty.
>>>>
>>
>>resmini, because of the placement of the said static-cling flag and window tint, all factory parts below and contained within, are thus void of warranty agreement. MINI will however, at it's sole discretion, warrantee the key fob.


R.E.

 

>>>>
>>>>>>Hope my window tint and static-cling flag doesn't void my warranty.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>resmini, because of the placement of the said static-cling flag and window tint, all factory parts below and contained within, are thus void of warranty agreement. MINI will however, at it's sole discretion, warrantee the key fob.
>>
>>
>>R.E.

Or go racing which is what i have done.......bye bye warranty.......but hey, who's complaining........I should be suing MINI for selling me a BRG job though....hmmmmmm I think I'll call John Edwards...maybe he can help.....

 

>>Or go racing which is what i have done.......bye bye warranty.......but hey, who's complaining........I should be suing MINI for selling me a BRG job though....hmmmmmm I think I'll call John Edwards...maybe he can help.....<<


You talk'n about John Edwards the TV guy that talks to dead people?
:smile:

R.E.

 

>>Well the other (and somewhat costly option I admit) is to pay your dealer to install the pulley. MINI of Sterling will do this, and if they do they labor, they will honor your warantee...

So will Rasmussen MINI, where the water pump was replaced. However, they will only warrantee the installation of the pulley and not the consequent defect of the supercharger or water pump, which may be the result of the reduction pulley.


_________________

 

>>Obviously you do not have a pulley mod. You cannot just put the pulley back on. At least not without obvious signs of doing so... You would have to torch it up to about 500 degrees (thus melting off the paint) and hope to get it properly aligned. This entire cover-up will cost you $$ nearly as much as footing the repair bill.

Oops, embarrasment sets in. Thanks for the explanation.

 

>>>>Obviously you do not have a pulley mod. You cannot just put the pulley back on. At least not without obvious signs of doing so... You would have to torch it up to about 500 degrees (thus melting off the paint) and hope to get it properly aligned. This entire cover-up will cost you $$ nearly as much as footing the repair bill.
>>
>>Oops, embarrasment sets in.

 

Trying to remember the basic pump theory from many years ago . . . .

To the best of my recollection, most automotive water pumps suffer from some amount of cavitation. Due in part to poor head, not enough volumn of water above the pump suction, and low system pressure, about 14 psi I think. So, you can reduce cavitation by raising system pressure, attach a pressurized head tank, or increasing overall system head, again attach a large head tank above the pump suction. Neither option adds to speed not overall goos looks of the car.

So, you live with pump cavitation in autos and do your best, by design, to reduce the impact. I you have seen a centrifugal pump that has failed from cavitation, it is not pretty, but I have never seen a automotive pump suffer a failure due to cavitation alone. I have seen water pumps that failed due to AGE and cavitation, but not cavitation alone.

What's the point? If the car is relatively new, which it is, he runs coolant and not just water, which raises the boiling point, then a 19% pulley did not cause the failure of the water pump.

Let's run some numbers here for clarification purposes, lets say a stock pump spins at twice the crank speed. So at 4000 rpm on a stock system your pumps spins at 8000 rpm. Add the 13.8% pulley and the pump speed jumps to 9104 rpm, a nice jump in speed. Add the 15% pulley and you get 9200 rpm, the 17% you get 9360 rpm, abd the 19% get you 9520 rpm. You can see that the difference between the 13.8 and the 19 is not that great, less than 5% by the eye. This small increase from the"approved" JCW pulley can not account for the pump failure alone, unless the JCW pump is right on the ragged edge of acceptability.

So unless someone fiddled the pump during installation of the pulley, and I don't see how since it is at the other end, a pretty baseless claim for negation of the warranty.

Sounds like a screw job and one you should put up a bit of a fight over.

My worthless $.02