[font=Verdana]Why do so many people report that their MINI dealer has treated them poorly? I think because they can. MINI dealerships are so far and few between that there is no competition to keep a customer’s business. If you can over charge someone and treat them like crap and they keep coming back why would you change?[/font]

 

I bought an early RX300 for my wife. She just loved the service ... and whats not to like? Well, the price for that admitedly high level of service is ... guess what ... high-priced service AND parts. Ridiculously high prices.
To be fair though, with most cars today requiring less service, the car companies and dealers are now making their money on service and parts. The flat-rate book estimates these days are a joke and parts prices from the dealer are nearly as bad.

 

g00d points in here, letz keep this thread alive!!
=0)

 

Wow, reading this thread really pissed me off. I have no doubt that some people have had a less than spectacular experience with MINI. However, corporations are not these giant monolithic entities. In this case, Mini is a subsidiary of BMW, with a distinct P & L I am sure. While individual stories may be good for anecdotal venting, they do not really encapsulate the millions of individual decisions that have taken place.

I have learned in my life experiences is the cost of reworking a problems. There are entire industries and methodologies that have arisen to quantify this to people. In the short term there may be market forces that allow decisions that 'screw' the customer. But not for long. In the long run, taking care of your customers is a requirement of market survival.

Off my high horse. I just get tired hearing that corporations are bad, making money is evil...

 

For the record I never made or implied the above. The thread had ventured into customer treatment and related issues and inspired me to post regarding that.

That said, trying to avoid covering defects (often known defects) under warranty in order to make money is wrong. Corporations can choose to have good or bad (for the consumer) policies obviously and some are better then others.

 

The problem with that is that MINI sucks in people with their FREE maintenance.

Why pay when its FREE?

 

On Woofcast 22, Mark (NAM founder) said it right. People like to say bad things about the car. Nobody starts a thread saying how good the MINI is. They list problems like the transmission, the windows, etc., but look for a thread about how good the car is doing.

This serves as a disservice to the car and the dealership. New potential buyers get on and are likely scared off by the bitching. I know when I got ready to buy, I had second thoughts due the the criticism.

Regarding BMW/MINI, I could not be more please with the service at USA level during the ordering process. The people that answered the phone acted like they were really insterested in helping me. I was not the typical customer service person that would rather not be bothered. I can't recall a time when I spoke with customer service person (first, that spoke English) that was so pleasant and helpful.

That attitude carried down to the local dealer (Flow in Winston Salem). From the first inquiree that I made on the internet, to my visits and ultimately to purchase and delivery of the vehicle. My MA was outstanding. Yes I gave him all "5's" when MINI called but he deserved it, as did the dealership.

The only negative thing I would say is that the junk fees of $ 345 for documentation fee is high, but that seems to be common in many dealerships.

If we are counting, who likes MINI and the dealer, put me in the "yes" column.

Excuse me while I get down off my soapbox.

 

What ALL good companies find out is that policies that support customer loyalty in the form of quality and customer care are cheaper than not. I do not believe that there is a major corporation, that is not a monopoly, who doesn't have a STATED policy that making customers happy is a primary deliverable. BMW/MINI isn't in the car business. They are in the business to satisfy a need (making people happy) via their cars.

BTW, the thread name suggests that makeing money is bad and that corporations are evil. In our version of a market economy, who's right is it to say that someone is making too much profit? You? Government? In the end, the market forces will decide and one can vote with their wallet.

Jumping off that darn horse again. That sucker is huge.

Here's wishing all of my American friends a Happy Thanksgiving a bit early!!!

 

Red Ryder, no disrespect, but everything you mentioned was sales related.
As I posted earlier to me "The real test is when you have issues with the cars or issues resulting from the service - you can't really judge the service is until then IMHO."

And yes, as it always comes up what you do see on forums is people looking for help, solutions, mods and sharing problems - its the nature of the beast and why so much useful information comes from them. It can be discouraging to some but knowledge is power; those poor people not on the boards, the majority of people in fact, who are not the slightest bit prepared and ignorant of issues are the ones who are at disadvantage and more prone to be taken avantage of. The M3 engine failure saga will live on as the ultimate example of the power of information and the misinformation that would otherwise have been provided by the dealers and company as a whole.

Viva la bitching! You can pick and choose who and what to listen to but better to read about it, learn about it then decide IMHO

Okay, gotta run, offa my soapbox now :smile:

 

yeah, but since they want to charge six grand over, I would expect nothing short of fellatio.

 

eVal, I agree with you that everything was related to sales. But customer service need not be limited only to the service bay. If that were the case, cars would be bought through a vending machine. As far as I am concerned customer service is customer service. That is what sets one company (not just automotive) aside from the other.

For the record, I did have an issue about 10 days after I took delivery. As minor as it was, it was handled gratiously by a sales person at the dealership. Instead of saying, that was a service isssue and directing me back to service, she (not even my MA, since he was on a demo drive) said I can fix that and did.

Got to keep off this soapbox.

 

My experience with MCS service relates more to the individual service advisor. When I first took in my MCS, I suffered through what I thought to be pitiful and infuriating service. I went through the "cracked windshield" fiasco and had to argue my way to the regional manager who had to sign off on the warranteed service. I found the service manager at the dealer to be very quick to side against the customer's complaint and generally had extremely disinterested attitude. This contrasts sharply with his replacement. When I returned to the dealer, now with an extremely bad taste in my mouth and ready for confrontation, the new service advisor was incredible. He took a difficult customer (me!!) and transformed me into a satisfied one. Not easy to do. Since then, service has surpassed my expectation. So much of my opinion on service is directly tied to the culture of the dealer, and even down to the guy who greets me as the service advisor.

 

Sorry but for the most part the people on NAM COULD buy their cars out of a vending machine!!! This is the first car in the past five that I didn't do on AutobyTel. I dumped what I wanted on the computer, got the best price and didn't worry about it because almost assuredly I wasn't going to get the car serviced where I bought it. This time was different because I knew that the only Mini dealer "close" by was also going to service it, so I wanted to do everything the traditional way. Even then I wish I could have broken down the sales experience to three parts: The salesman, the management and the finance people. The sales guy was a little indifferent and could have been better after the sale, I still don't have my valet key. The management was great. They did everything just right. The finance people were just like a Chevy dealer. Pressure, pressure, pressure. They wanted you to sign everything to get the payment higher and take more stuff.

I'll be taking the car in for some minor stuff so we will see how they treat me there. I expect everything to be just fine.

 

Actually, my dealership (MINI of Murray (Salt Lake City)) sent a tech to my house (45 miles) to replace a trim piece on my '05 cabrio (took him 5 minutes to replace it). I was very impressed. That little gesture saved me a few hours of my own time, not to mention gas.

I've not had many problems with my car to deal with, but MINI of Murray has been fantastic so far (Craig the service manager is great).

MINI then follows up to ask how my service visit was, and whether I'm enjoying my car overall.

I'll reserve full judgment until I have more miles on the clock, but so far my MINI experience has been the best of any car I've owned.

As far as those of you who consider a free car wash to be a "perk," I would disagree. No way some dealership lot boy is grinding his grit-encrusted rags on my paint!

Whenever I have service done on a vehicle, I make sure the service advisor writes "DO NOT WASH" on the service tag in big, bold letters.

 

Making money is not evil.
Corporations which are only responsible to their shareholders & profitability ARE evil!

There are far too many people out there who believe they deserve the good living they have, and give not a $h!t what happens to their fellow man. This is very short-term thinking. Its the type of thinking which guides many corporations today. It is the problem.

Screw your fellow man in the name of higher-profit... Send his job overseas, because in foreign countries women AND children can, and do work for long hours, don't require breaks, healthy environments, healthcare, insurance or benefits. AND they're willing to do the work a fraction of the $.

Think of NIKE... who job-costs & pays its workers by the piece... based on how many 10ths of a second it takes to make each portion of a garment.

Import foreign/migrant workers & have them do your fellow man's work for less than your fellow man will. Employ illegal aliens... Outsource service jobs or eliminate them altogether... Do it all because you're all about efficiency & profit.

After your all done claim that these changes are necessary to remain "competitive" & profitable. Then blame your fellow man for his predicament. Say he's lazy. Conclude that he/corporations that employed him are simply not competitive in the current market & therefore obsolete.

Eventually this chicken is coming home to roost.

Sorry, I know more than slightly O/T & very RANT. Apologies.

 

Outsourcing or off shoring, whatever you want to call it, has been happening since the industrial revolution, and probably longer. One can rant about screwing the little guy (your reference of Nike). Nike could stop producing shoes (or charge 300 per shoe made bya union shop). You can stop buying them. that is how things work. eople could choose to not take the jobs. You have the choice.

For people in India, their wages have increased where there is a shortage of software developers. Same thing happened in Japan after WWII and is happening today in China. In fact, many companies are shying away from India, because their cost structure (not just labour) is too great and are focusing on China

If one looks at the case study of GM, the number one cost line item they have is the benefits of retired workers. 200K current workers are supporting 400K retired workers. We are going off topic, but I do not believe that one can claim they are smart enough to know a)what is grossly too much profits and b)what is the solution. I argue that the market will take care of any price elastic product.

Back to the topic, I submit that it is CHEAPER for companies to deliver a high quality product AND deliver high customer support. GE has exported the Six Sigma methodology to document the cost of defects, be they in rework or multiple customer engagements. Companies have to get things right, or work to minimize areas of defects or they simply will not be competitive. This applies to BMW, MINI, GM, Ford, Prosche...

 

Feeling better now after getting that offa my chest. I guess the whole GM thing just got me going

Regarding the service experiences of many:

To me the issue is inconsistency & corporate interest.

Its great that some have wonderful dealers who do all sorts of extra's to keep you happy. No one is bitching about these folks. We'd probably all agree that the stories of great service are all how we'd hope, and or expect to be treated. Some dealers are just better at understanding that the big-picture is made up of small stuff as well as big issues.

Regarding corporate interest...

The CSI questions are BS. Any marketing firm can tell you that JUST because you contacted the customer and ASKED him for his opinion, you've already WON. Because people believe they are important when someone calls them & asks them ANYTHING. Appeal to ego, plain & simple.

The fact that you can't answer CSI questions with your own words & opinion re: service should be a dead givaway. ...When a company really want's to know what you think it doesn't ask overly-leading questions with limited answers.

MINI can serve me coffee, adress me in a courteous manner AND complete all the work MINI claims the car needs. But if I still have drivability issues & the SA tells me there's nothing he can do, or doesn't know how to fix it... What is my ownership experience like? Frustrating, I'd say.

If BMW were concerned about customers beyond initial ownership they would be more pro-active & results oriented. Not lip-service.

The fact remains that once they have your $/signiture you WERE a customer... you are now an owner. That is a significant distinction.

With MINI in particular the demad is SO high & supply limited enough that less-than stellar satisfaction is acceptable... There's a constant supply of new, never-before MINI consumers waiting... As long as the new folks have a good experience the early adaptors who (have the majority of problems) can be easily characterized as overly demanding or unreasonable. Ironically its these early-adaptors who are the REAL enthusiasts & who are most vocal, both pro & con. It would seem like a simple & good idea to treat these folks VERY well.

If you're an owner & have had a great experience then Don't doubt those who haven't had the same. Feel about your own good fortune.

 

You better hope you're right... IMO you're going to get a vist from that roosting bird.

 

One small comment, I can't think of a incorporated organization that is only beholden to shareholders to maximize profit. We can go on and on what are the regulations all corporations that do business in the USA alone are subject to. If they are a multinational, they are often subject to local and host country rules. If one of those countries is part of the EU, then there are additional requirements. There is WTO and on and on. The perception that companies can just go and do whatever they want to screw the little man to maximize profits is simply a perception not based upon facts.

 

I may be faced with my position being given to someone else, but the difference is that I do not view it as an entitlement that I get to keep my job. Ultimately, I have to provide more value than others. If I don't, I'm out. Same time, if I can receive greater value, I'll go elsewhere. Same choice that consumers have.

 

This is not something new ... its human nature. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

The most vocal are always those with something to gripe about and misery loves company.

 

Ditto to minimc and ogrady discussion!
Here's my 20 cents (inflation): If you want to read a perspective that isn't politically correct, go to Middle American News www.manews.org . Remember the promises that came with NAFTA? CAFTA is worse.

I bought my MCS used with an extended warrantee. Took in to the brand new dealer in Snotsdale (Scottsdale for non-Zonies). They replaced the clutch after I mentioned vague shift feel. They were most excellent. Of course, I'm just a nice guy and don't act like I own a BMW.

I know 'politics' is verbotten on this site. Why not allow a serious discussion to play out on this thread? Call it the Politically Incorrect Zone. Keep it on automotive related subjects like Big Oil, Big 3, competing with China for raw material and oil, Multi-national corporations, government interferrence and tax manipulation, Socialism and Communism vs. Capitalism. Not sex, abortion, terrorism, partisianship. (rules?)

Let's see more soapboxs, just don't use others as one.:smile:

 

I did not state, nor imply that corporations could just go and do whatever they want. Do not attempt to characterize my statements with your assumptions.

You'd best look into THE FACTS

The issue I speak of is the rights of an individual - a person, vs. the rights of a corporation. Accountability etc.

Corporations hold the same legal status as "a person" does. This IS fact... you can look it up!

Irrespective of what the law says are the realities of enforcement, accountability & punishment.

If you or I steal money from a bunch of folks we are convicted & go to jail. How frequently has that happened to heads of corporations who've done the same (in the name of the company)?

How about negligence causing death or bodily harm? If you or I personally produced & sold a product which we knew could cause a person horrible injury or death (due to defect)... but we sold it anyway we’re personally liable. We’d go to jail. BUT if our company is big enough, with many layers of corporate bureaucracy we can claim we didn't know - plausible deniability. So, while a corporation in it’s self doesn’t provide absolute protection, larger corporations are more difficult to incriminate and prosecute.

Example:
Chrysler mini-van. The bench seat of certain models/years would fly out the back under the force of collision. Frequently the passengers were killed. Chrysler & other corporate entities knew about this for a LONG time before it came to light. NO ONE has ever gone to jail.

Does the difference in application or interpretation of law seem equitable? Or do you think that laws might favor corporations.

These are comments from a business owner; one who has owned the same CORPORATION for 11+ years.

 

Regarding multi-national corporations, out-sourcing jobs, customer service discussion from minimc #90 and ogrady #91, #94, and myself, let's look at National Geopgraphic, Feb. '05, pp. 21-23 that features MINI "... But over the past decade increases in financial pressures, technical requirements, and global vehicle production have forced many [not MINI] automakers to broaden their horizons. "One way to stay competitive is to find low-cost parts, wherever they are," says John Casesa, an auto industry analyst for Merrill Lynch. "It's about car companies needing to find the best parts at the best prices." Then later: "Today their [BMW] supply chain includes companies based in the Americas, Asia, and Europe. But determining a part's provenance is more complicated than simply identifying its country of origin." The illustration shows parts made in Brazil, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy and companies based in Canada, U.S., Germany, Austria, France (let's bust out our windshields in sympathy!).
So... d$$holes is suits should get what they deserve. I don't like how Globalism is disolving our soverignty in the interest of inexpensive products. But we ALL need to look in the mirror(s) of our MINI, because it may have been made in Tibet! If anyone wants to protest, sell your MINI and buy a, um, a, let's see, a '57 Chevy, but check the repo part sources!

 

I have not quoted anyone in my posts. If someone feels they have been misrepresented, then that is their own problem they need to come to grips with.

This thread was started because of the term embodiment of corporate evil. I believe, and have not seen any evidence otherwise, that suggests that MINI is working to make a high quality product while meeting the needs of its other customers, their stokholders. One can do both and one can have fun doing it. I can only say that it is a benefit to both of their customers, car owners and stokholders, to provide a high quality product and experience so that one doesn't get to know the service manager. They can train their people in corporate standards, but ultimately it is millions of human decisions that make perceptions.

I will now return to my turkey coma.

Merry Christmas,
Kevin