>>Unfortunately employees of BMW are banned from reading these forums though I'm sure many do. Curious that BMW don't want their employees knowing what their customers think of them.
>>


it would really be fair if you (Tokio) produced the memo that proves your allegation cited above.....

 

I am not an expert on the specifics of the CSI scores but much of the score on the service end comes from comments by the customers. I am not sure if Mini is doing the same exact thing as BMW because I am in parts not service, but BMW will contact the customer after he customer has been in for warranty work on their BMW. BMW will ask a series of question with a point system like 1 being the lowest and 5 being the highest...as an example. BMW will also do mystery shopping as we call it. They send in a car to have something done...usually an inspection and they will grade the dealer on everything. They will check to see if the dealer tries to sell un-needed work, parts, and/or if they miss anything. They grade the service writer's methods and procedures also. BMW will also do a shop over the phone; like for a repair quote. We as a parts department will also get mystery shopped. In my case BMW will call and ask a question, usually about an accessory and grade me on my performance: did I ask the right questions, collect the right info, be courteous, ect...BMW will also send a person to my retail counter and grade the "face-to-face" experience. I don't know what steps BMW would take upon a dealer that doesn't fullfil their CSI requirement because luckily we have not been down that path, yet...knock on wood! I certainly would think some easy consequences for continuously poor CSI would be: reduction in allocation(some even being model specific), finacial fines(penalties), loss of kick-backs, loss of daily stock-orders(not being able to place parts orders daily...being forced to place a weekly order, seriously hurting one's parts sales, retail, in-shop work, and especially wholesale to outside bodyshops and repair shops), loss of individual prizes(BMW has many competitions for sales, service, and parts personnel that can award such things as all expense paid vacations to places like Hawaii or Europe)....not to mention one of the worst things that could happen an audit. CSI is VERY important to BMW and they will not stand for any dealer blemishing their good name. There is no call for any dealer to have a mad customer. Sure things happen and situations can arise with parts not being available or a defective part...that is the nature of the business! We have had our share of unhappy customers when it comes to an issue with their car but there is always a way to correct the problem. A lot of dealers may not consider a customer's simple complaint as a major problem but to the owner it is a problem because it's THEIR car...they are the one paying the payment and whatever the issue is they don't like it and want it fixed; simple as that. What most customers don't understand is that warranty situations have to be handled with policies and procedures. Unfortunetly many times these policies/procedures take time and involve many different people; this mumbo-jumbo I speak of isn't the customer's problem at all, it's our's the dealer's. The customer simply want to enjoy the car they pay for and they could care less what our problems are and that's the way it should be. Our job as a dealership is to make the experience as joyfull and timely as possible. I have found that when problem areas arise and they DO...the best policy is to be truthful with the customer and don't BS them. Tell the customer exactly what is happening throughout the entire process, keep them informed and try to keep them happy; it can be tough but within reason that is the main objective. Keeping you happy so you tell others about us and return for your next new car! See we're not all bad guys!

 

Have has several problems with my car, and MINI and my dealer, MINI of the Hamptons, were courteous and helpful.

Sorry to hear about your issues.

Regards,
Red

 

Pocketrocketowner

>>
>>>>Unfortunately employees of BMW are banned from reading these forums though I'm sure many do. Curious that BMW don't want their employees knowing what their customers think of them.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>it would really be fair if you (Tokio) produced the memo that proves your allegation cited above.....


I'm not privy to BMW internal memos - just parroting what several employees at the show room and service center told me.

As I have said before I take people at face value. I expect people to be forthright with me, as I am with them - just the way I was brought up. If they lied to me about this it wouldn't surprise me, they did about a lot more important things as well as to the FL Lemon Law board - and that is a matter of public record.



Classicmini1,

I posted these questions back a page or so ago - this thread has moved quite quickly so I guess you missed it.

I respect the fact that your dealership would like to keep all your customers happy. Without customers you would have no business.

BMW corporate have way too many customers I guess.

What have you been telling your software plagued customers over the past year or so?

How do you deal with what BMW don't arm you to deal with?

Does Mini/BMW tell you what to and not to write on service reports relative to issues that may be used for Lemon Law?

This was certianly the case in my dealings with Lauderdale BMW. By their own admission they had to phone the area BMW tech. to see what they were allowed to write (lie about) on service reports. They also attempted to twist the service reports list of customer complaints so that the same issue on different reports sounded like a another issue.


_________________
'03 S DS

 

To be honest I don't know exactly what our service dept is telling customers with the programming issues, since I work in parts. I would be surprised to hear about our service dept giving lies for their reasoning. Come Monday I will ask our Mini technician what they are saying exactly.

 

All this talk of bad dealerships does spook me a bit, as I'm getting ready to order my MCS. Heres my dilema: I live in Des Moines. The closest MINI dealers are in Kansas, Minnesota, Illinois, and Missouri. The dealer in KC is the closest. So I did call down to Baron MINI and ask specific questions regarding the service of my potential MINI. Example, I asked about oil changes. I was told that in order to keep the warranty up, I had to have the oil changed at a MINI dealer, and that no, even if I took it to the local BMW dealer that would not count. Ok, so then I am told that MINI schedule says 10k miles between oil changes. Ok, thats not a big deal. The 8 hour drive down and back for a freakin oil change is a big deal. Also, if the car breaks here in Des Moines, how am I supposed to get it to KC for service? I was told if I am on the road and it breaks, MINI roadside service will haul the car to the closest dealership, but I am responsible for getting it home. Again, no biggie. I can deal with that. So I called the local BMW dealer today and asked the sales manager if there was any possibility of them acquiring a MINI franchise here. He says No, MINIUSA does not feel that this is a big enough market to justify having a dealer between all the above listed ones. Yea, ok, that makes sense. NOT! Judging from the dealer feedback forum here, Baron has a good rating, with only a few complaints. So, here I am. Confused as ever.

Anyone got thoughts on this? Anyone dealt with Baron that can clue me in?

Travis

 

I've never seen any other car manufacturers stating that only their dealers can do the maintanance to maintain the warranty. I don't think it's legal.

Can anyone shed any light on that?

 

I think this may be covered under Magnuson Moss. I always thought if you did the service and kept records, your warranty would be intact.

 

Seems like yet another case of this unscrupilous manufacturer and their agents intimidating their customers.

Anyone who doubts that BMW and many of their agents are dishonest, only need to read DID's thread in this forum "Dear MINIDivision".

Many of the members who posted in that thread attesting to the negative service are moderators and long time Mini enthusiasts.

BMW will skrew you if they see a way out - it's their corporate culture.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

>>Seems like yet another case of this unscrupilous manufacturer and their agents intimidating their customers.
>>
>>Anyone who doubts that BMW and many of their agents are dishonest, only need to read DID's thread in this forum "Dear MINIDivision".
>>
>>Many of the members who posted in that thread attesting to the negative service are moderators and long time Mini enthusiasts.
>>
>>BMW will skrew you if they see a way out.

I think the issue is that the BMW center can not do the scheduled maintenance under the free maintenance program that comes from MINI. You are welcome to have the car serviced any where you want as long as they perform the required service items on the car, but MINI won't pay for it.

 

>>>>Seems like yet another case of this unscrupilous manufacturer and their agents intimidating their customers.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone who doubts that BMW and many of their agents are dishonest, only need to read DID's thread in this forum "Dear MINIDivision".
>>>>

First you admit to parroting "employees" in "showrooms" and "service" and now you conclude with your wild assertions........WOW!!!
I happen to think my dealer is an honest, scrupulous and highly customer focused organisation. BMW has a world wide reputation as one of the premier car manufacturers.......I understand you have a bee up your bonnet but I don't really think spewing lies and parrotted sentences makes you come across as a credible individual........ :???:

 

OK pocketrocket man - I made the whole thing up - feel better now?

"BMW has a world wide reputation as one of the premier car manufacturers......."

And then they made the new mini.

BMW is getting a world wide reputation as one of the premier car manufacturers with the worst service record.....

You may like to read DID's thread to MiniDivision - but then you may not.

The Florida Lemon Law Board found me to be a lot more credible than anyone from BMW or MINI.

Maybe your dealer is honest - I didn't say he wasn't. I wonder if they are telling customers they may be buying a yoyo car. If they aren't - then they are probably dishonest. I wonder if they use the prescribed pen test to see if your 6th cracked windscreen is due to a grain of sand. Maybe that is a lie too?

________________
'03 S DS

 

I was told by BMW NA
" a small shard of glass caused your winshield crack"
My responce
"Do you even believe what you are telling me?"
BMW NA, covering their butts on defective engineering
My dealer, kicking butt and helping their customers in spite of BMW NA doing some quite unethical things.

I left my last company when they started doing this kind of crap. I love my mini, but will never own a BMW. Of course, just imagine if the Mini was a rover?

Ubercooper

 

onewordeasily describes North Scottsdale Mini/BMW......ARROGANT!

There is definitely a different level of service between Mini and BMW, between a 3 series and 5 series and a 5 series and 7 series, pretty funny to watch...

Last service visit, my power adapter in the front broke and Mini would not warranty it saying it was designed for a lighter, not a cell phone or utility power cord, so I would have to pay for a new one and installation, $75. I asked them if the power adapter in the rear of my 2002 MCS was only designed for a lighter and not a auxiliary power adapter for a phone, beverage cooler, etc.....I was told it was designed for auxiliary power, so my cell phone would be okay there, little inconvenient to get to back there....so I told them to replace the front power adapter with the rear so I would not have this issue again....unbelievable they called me back and told me they were the same adapter, but they would still not warranty the front adapter since I was using it for a phone.....the service rep was dead serious....lol !

My wife had a 5 series on order, but cancelled it after all the bad experiences I had and bought a new G35 coupe...Infinity service is a breath of fresh air compared to BMW from our limited experience so far....

Too bad, because Mini is such a fun car with great heritage, but would never buy another one because the only dealer here in Arizona is just so bad and makes one feel like a second class citizen when driving through their pearly gates, can't believe Penske condones this arrogance, but oh well, trhey appear to be selling all the Minis they get,, so why bother changing :smile:

 

Well this is one thread I can bring some info to the table.

1. Owned a Lexus RX 300

2. Owned a BMW M Roadster

3. Wife has a BMW 528I

4. I have a 03 MCS

5 Also have a Dodge Mini Van

Lexus service was fantastic. The unit got washed, interior cleaned anytime the car was in for any kind of service. Always got a Lexus loaner car if service was over 24 hour time limit. The service people made you feel special. I would still have the Lexus, but at the time, I needed to haul alot of stuff, and the Lexus was a little to small and way to nice to jamb stuff into the interior just to make it all fit. I sold it, and went to a Dodge Grand Caravan. Hey its no Lexus, but it sure hauls the stuff, with room left over.

Bought the M Roadster and the 528I from East Bay BMW in Pleasanton CA. No complaints about the service, although the cost of service and parts are way on the high side. But everyone knows what BMW stands for...Bust my wallet.... :smile:

I bought the MCS from MINI of Hawaii when we lived in Ca, because the Ca MINI dealers were either asking way over MSRP or had a long wait list for the MCS

Now we are in Okla City and the dealer for the BMW is Jackie Cooper and for the MINI also. The 528I or the MCS has not needed any kind of service as of yet, so won't know what to expect until the service time rolls around.

The MINI is due for an oil change in the next few hundred miles so I guess I will get to experience the local dealership then. I sure hope its good experience.


Bought the Dodge Mini Van new, and any time I took the van back for any kind of service, the unit never got washed or anyting. They just took my money and said see you next time :???:

 

Sorry to hear that some MINI owners are not getting the level of service they expect and as compared to Lexus. Someone else wrote, and I agree, that a good rapport with your service advisor is important. Don't rant and be sensible.

On the other hand, I'd be really ticked off if my car is brought back to the dealership for the same problem time and again. But I also suspect that those are design problems beyond the bailiwick of the dealership, e.g., cracked windshield and yo-yo stumble. Those have to be dealt at the design studios of BMW/MINI

_________________
<P><img src="https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t;</img>
Don't hassle me. I'm driving as fast as I possibly can</P>

 

Any business is out to make money, otherwise they wouldn't be around very long.... I don't know why some posts complain about this. I guess some people expect to get something for nothing... Peace. :smile:

retroom

 

I've had really good luck with my MINI dealer, Rasmussen MINI in Portland, Oregon. I've never had a dealer that was a conscientious when I brought it in for service. Jeep and Chevy certainly can't hold a candle to the service I've had with MINI. Plus my car always comes back freshly washed, and when I took it in for a recall they even gave me a full tank of gas.

Maybe BMW/MINI service isn't Lexus service, but I'd never buy a Lexus regardless of how good their service is.

Bottom line...I've been happy with BMW, MINI, and their service.

 

Perhaps, what MINI should do is have consistency among their dealers regarding repair work. I mean some will maintain a warranty on modded cars while others will not. For some repairs such as the brown coolant, come people got a radiator flush and a full tank of gas, while others were told it was fine. In regards to creaky steering colums, some greased the bearings over and over, while others got a new steering column. It is these inconsistencies that upset people.

If two MCS' have identical mods, and the tranny goes out on both, why will one dealer replace the tranny under warranty while the other claims abuse and will not warranty the tranny?

 

>>I've had really good luck with my MINI dealer, Rasmussen MINI in Portland, Oregon. I've never had a dealer that was a conscientious when I brought it in for service. Jeep and Chevy certainly can't hold a candle to the service I've had with MINI. Plus my car always comes back freshly washed, and when I took it in for a recall they even gave me a full tank of gas.
>>
>>Maybe BMW/MINI service isn't Lexus service, but I'd never buy a Lexus regardless of how good their service is.
>>
>>Bottom line...I've been happy with BMW, MINI, and their service.

Rarely does anyone buys a Lexus because of their superior customer service. Rather, they buy it because Lexus automobiles meet his or her driving needs while offering Toyota reliability. Lexus offers the whole package.

 

I think MINIBLUES has the ultimate and correct answer. NOBODY that I do business with treats me badly. Why, cuz if they do, that is the LAST time they see me and my MONEY. End of story, I move on. Don't dwell on it, don't yell and kick and scream, just don't do biz with them and if someone ASKS, I tell them my reason.
The opposite is obviously true....I LOVE giving profits to people who treat me right and give me a deal and do quality work. In terms of body shops I patronize Stoddards Porche-Audi in Euclid Ohio cuz they are not only outstanding but are also fair, responsive and reliable. Of course they are competitive as well.

 

This thread's been long silent, but I was wondering... Now that we have the luxury of time, hind-sight & more experience (with MINI) what are the various perspectives on service/overall dealer satisfaction re: car-problems?

ALSO
I notice that the URL http://www.mini-pooper.com no-longer functions & all traces are gone. I can't even find a cached page on google! Anyone know the official word on what happened?

 

This is the first time I've seen this thread. I've had experience with two BMW dealers...Capital Eurocar in Tallahassee and Tom Bush in Jacksonville. Talk about night and day differences. Capital also sells VW, Mercedes and Porsche, but not Mini. I wouldn't let them work on a Flyer Wagon!!! I don't see how they stay in business. They are an Audi service point and Audi made me take my TT there, they had it EIGHTEEN DAYS and it didn't get fixed!!! I blamed all of this on AudiUSA and the arrogance that they have. I'll never own another one. Tom Bush on the other hand was great with my BMW. I never had a problem with them...EVER. Washed my BMW each time, gave me a loaner every time and treated me like royalty. I expect the same from them with my Cooper.

As for Florida's Lemon Law...it is one of the toughest in the country. I did that with a Mitsu Eclipse convertible. The headliner kept falling and leaking and the last straw was having it fall in my lap during a thunderstorm. Their corporate tried to fight me on that one as well. The service manager was great, he told them to just get me another car and I would be happy...and I would have. When they dug in their heels it got nasty. I won.

 

Wow, this is an old thread! Its a topic I am sadly all to familiar with and have posted about quite a bit re: MINI and BMW.

Perhaps later I will have the time and inclination to comprise a comprehensive post - however my prior posts here and on BMW boards already cover it all and I do not know if I have the heart to reiterate them. The real test is when you have issues with the cars or issues resulting from the service - you can't really judge the service is until then IMHO.

To encapsulate it though, our years of BMW service with several cars and now the Mini does not speak well for the company. Yes each dealer is a franchise but the parent company uses that as a scapegoat instead of even attempting to ensure that each dealer has the same level of knowledge about problems and service notices (TSBs and recalls). When the dealers do something wrong, i.e. sub par service or damaging the car BMW/MINI throws up their hands and does nothing, and on the flip side the dealers constantly use the parent company as an excuse not to do warranty work under the guise that it would not be approved (although if you press about it you'll find they don't even check on this oftentimes).

The CSI survey is a joke - not only doesn't it address the real issues like 'was your car repaired' or the like, but the fact that the service departments pressure people into submitting 5s invalidates the whole thing. It is a completely bogus setup that does nothing to help the customers or improve service, rather if you actually report anything less then 5s the dealer is not happy with you (and yes we have had angry SAs as a result which actually resulted in worse service - we were clueless that being honest was not what they wanted ).

The issues we have had over the years are too numerous to mention: it has covered everything from dealer issues (multiple dealers); damaging the cars, going to ridiculous measures to try to avoid covering issues under warranty, being oblivious to TSBs, making us return repeatedly for parts not in stock (even on recalls where they would know the parts needed in advance) - to BMW/NA issues and problems with cars by design that they will fight to not recognise; S54 engine problems, subframe design weakness, software issues, etc.

Prior to the the BMWs and MINIs we each had Hondas and had no idea how amazing that service would be in comparison. Their approach to issues and willingness to do things on the spot was night and day (even took a headunit out of a new car for me instead of making me wait and have to return). Friends with Lexus and Infinti have great things to say about that service as well. I can tell you that even though we are longtime BMW owners, love the cars and have been active members of the community, we will think long and hard before buying another one and will likely end up with another brand. That is very sad.

PS: To give kudos where it is due I will say that East Bay Mini has treated us and the car well so far with only minor hiccups, and Weatherford has been very good to the bimmer and us for the most part.

 

Maintanence on your vehicle does NOT have to be done by the dealer. Keep records of what is done and you wil win any arguments with the dealer. Anyone who tells you different is flat wrong.

Cheers