I've actually tried all three grades of gas in my 06 Cooper. My first fill-up was with Costco "Regular" (wasn't thinking) and just filled her up. Since then, I've read the owner's manual and been to a few other sites that have recommended using premium grades/name brand gasolines. I did notice a difference in the car's performance, actually get better mileage with the higher graded gasoline and don't have to listen to knocking, especially when I'm using the A/C. Now with 1675 miles under Buzz-B's belt, I've settled into mixing the mid and high grades together for what seems to be working best for me. Definitely notice a difference between regular and premium gas.

 

Curious if you really notice a difference in brand. Many sell the brand names cheaper under other names ( I believe). I plan to do an extended evaluation (a few weeks) to see how much difference there really is, if any.

 

If you are going to do a comparison, do it between TopTier (www.toptiergas.com) and non-TopTier brands. I personally doubt you would notice a difference after only one tankful (presuming you swap 91 octane for 91 octane); but after say 10,000 miles on the non-TopTier brand, you will begin to experience drivability problems (such as cold start stalling) from the intake side deposit build-up.

 

You know what?. In the some 40 years I've been driving I have never experienced anything like that that was not attributed to a mechanical problem. And never in the last some 20 years of fuel injected vehicles but including a 86' Toyota Celica 146,000 miles, which I sold in perfect running condition, 91' Ford Taurus 115,000 miles before the tranny went out AGAIN, and yes, I could go on. And I use just about anything that is sold in a large distribution area. So-called Top Tier or not. Whatever is convenient and not over-priced.
yeah. this is where you tell me.. "you've just been lucky'....

 

Actually, I think this is where you are saying that the folks at Top Tier Gas are blowing smoke at us, are you not?

Notwithstanding your opinion of the Top Tier detergent specification, a few companies (including BMW) with arguably more engineering talent have bought into the Top Tier detergent specification. If you want to run rotgut in your car, that is really fine - afterall it is your car. If you develop drivability problems, it will be your choice to fix or not fix.

 

Just saying I have not experienced anything that supports what you are suggesting. Maybe it will take another 40 years of driving.

The Top Tier standards may be completely valid. And a lot of gas sold by independents may meet that standard, because they supply the same fuel. In that regard, perhaps I have been lucky.

What often we don't have evidence for does not make sense until we do. But Costco purchasing Top Tier gas from major suppliers, and having it delivered in unmarked tanker trucks makes perfect economic sense.

 

to use no more than 10% ethanol, (not MTBE) and the reccommended detergent levels, not the minimum required by law.

And yet, with such an add campaign, I have yet to see and REAL DATA showing that TopTier gas is any better.

FWIW, there is no garantee that non top tier gasses are any worse. They MAY have lower detergent levels, or if they use MTBE as an oxygenate, they're out.

So take the campaign for what you want. Too me, it seems like ad BS, or worse, a subsidy for yet more non-cost effective ethanol use (long live Archer Daniels Midland!).

There is so much that isn't spec'ed in our gas (at least that we can get access to).

Matt

 

I used to try to purchase 76 gas exclusively when they were claiming they don't use MTBE. I don't recall seeing those signs in a while.
Yes, there is a lot we don't know.

 

they used Ethanol. It wouldn't be that bad an idea, but we have trade barriers against importation of ethanol, and we make it from corn. Turns out that isn't a good idea. Making it from sugar cane is much, much more efficient, like what Brazil does. If our nation were smart, we would ditch the trade barriers, buy the ethanol on the open market, and not give tons of money to ADM, and we'd save $ over all! But so what, like Chaney said, deficits don't matter! (Where's the pukey smiley when I need it!).

Matt

 

I envy your location, Dr! I will be up in the Bay Area next month to test drive a mini. Now to see if EBmini would be open to my using 84 to the coast as a test run!

 

But there are hills in the east bay as well, and some of them have much less traffic. I'm sure others here can help suggest a route!

Matt

 

Oh, I'm sure.. just reminiscing.... my old Triumph, Fiat Spyder, RX-7, etc. etc. days..

 

I've had my MC for 2+ years now and the difference is noticeable as soon as you pull away from the pump. I went through the whole calculations and equations phase too but decided that, after much buggering about, the lower grade gas produced significantly worse mileage per gallon than the good stuff. It is, however, gauling that I have to pay over $3 a gallon. Lets get together and do something about THAT!

 

Experimentation works best.

As far as 'getting together and doing something.. we did already.. we all continue to drive. Hardly a reason to lower gas prices, if that was not obvious.
I suppose we could all get together and not drive as a solution. Will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
You can pay now, pay later, or in this case, keep paying.

 

A couple of data points:

In 1986, I purchased a 1986 VW GTI. I really liked the performance of the car (kind of like the MCS of today back then) and wanted to keep it in tip-top condition. So, I filled it exclusively with the premium grade of a name brand gasoline that claimed to be the best around. 10,000 miles later and I am experiencing cold start stalling of the car. GTI goes in to the shop and it needs a de-carbonization. I question their diagnosis and they give me a copy of a TSB from VW about cold start stalling and carbon deposits on the intake valves from high parafin content gasolines. The TSB specifically identified the name brand that I had been using as a high parafin content gasoline. I really didn't like paying the $120 for the de-carbonization process, but my unhappiness went away after a short drive of the car - no cold start stalling.... Next day, I ask the SA what gas to use. They recommend Chevron. I have been on Chevron Supreme for 19 years and 300,000+ miles in various cars with NO cold start stalling. 100,000 miles later in the GTI (until it was stolen) with Chevron Supreme and no cold start stalling. Ever.

Fast forward to the present, and the TopTier Gas specification. While TopTierGas.com is doing a lot of advertising, I don't see their efforts as negative. They are trying to draw attention to their standard and advertising is a natural way to do it. Some of the most reputable companies have endorsed the TopTier standard.

If you don't want to run good gas (as defined by the TopTier standard) in you car, that is your personal decision. If you experience problems in the future as a result of your decision, the choice to fix the problems will also be yours. My primary reason for posting about the TopTier standard was to provide information to NAM members about the standard. If they choose to ignore it, that is their personal decision. (You can lead a horse to water, but you can't necessarily make it drink....)

Dr. O, while we may have ADM to thank for the choice to use ethanol from corn instead of from sugar cane, at least we are trying to get off the MTBE habbit. I would agree that sugar cane would be a better way to brew ethanol; unfortunately, we are experiencing an object lesson in what political contributions can do for those (ADM) making the contributions.

 

There are some things that large companies do to slow the growth of gas expense, but I am at a loss to see how they could be implemented at a consumer level. The most effective step is to purchase petroleum futures contracts when the market dips. The problem for us lowly consumers is where to store the gas for future use.... I was toying with a Group Buy concept for NAMers, but the problem remains - storage and availability across the U.S. COSTCO is kind of a Group Buy concept, but you don't get to specify the standard of the product they purchase (only the octane grades). Any other ideas anyone?

 

Personally, I think it may be naive on our part to think what we get is always what is labeled as far as brand.

My understanding is the tankers line up and pull from different spigots of a common tank. After that, the individual companies put in their specific additive packages. At least, that's how I understand the process works.

But I also understand when there are shortages, they borrow from one another. So how is that different than Costco selecting more than one brand (and they claim only major brands) for the best price?

What gets checked at the pump by a government regulatory rep. is only the octane level, and meter accuracy, not the amount or brand of additives being used. If someone knows differently that Top Tier or some other body monitors things closer than that, I would like to know.
I admit I don't know.. but apparently some people have information I have not been able to glean, or just a lot of faith.

I don't believe anybody wants to run 'bad gas'. But that depends on your defintion, of bad. If it's only based on a name brand you could very well be alluding yourself, but your odds of having a bad fill of fuel is probably slightlly less. I can't remember the last time any gas caused a dramatic effect on how my cars run, let alone affect their longevity. And I do tend to keep them a long time.
Your isolated incident some 20 years ago happened when both fuels and motor oils were far from the state of art they are today. And that's a good thing, or it would not be an uncommon scenario today with fuel injection, tighter tolerances, and emission requirements being what they are.

 

I'm picking up my MC on Monday, quick question:

Where I live, the gas grades are 87, 89, and 92. So is it ok to get 89? Someone told me the 89 is 89-91. Is this correct?

 

I'd use the 92. 89 is 89. '89-91' is wishful thinking. You're not going to burn in hell if you use the 89, but BMW specs 91 for a reason. The price delta just isn't that great (though irking at the pump), especially in relation to the price of the car/insurance/etc.

 

Will running reg. gas in my 06 mini hurt it? I can't tell the difference in the way it runs.

 

Yes, it will hurt it in the long run...use premium. Your fuel economy will actually be better, too.

And....welcome to NAM!!!

 

My dad always told me that if its not knocking then nothing is wrong. However, my dad is wrong. Turns out modern motors have knock senors so that it won't knock even if you're running a lower octane than you should. I'd go with Premium even though it costs more. Its seems safer.

 

GASP...Its like drinking cheap wiskey...it will kill you after awhile.

 

and it has to do with the knock sensor and timing advance. But if you don't notice any difference, you may not be pushing the motor to where it matters (floored, and moreso the higher the RPMs). If you always drive slow and shift at 3500 RPM, it may not actually matter.

But if you floor it a lot, or wind to the upper RPMs, the premium will make a difference.

Matt

ps, shouldn't this be in "under the bonnet" instead of MC Squared?

 

i was just wondering if minis need premium grade fuel, do ferraris, porsches an other cars like them require premium?