Excellent post - great info - thank you!

 

"BTW, the top-tier hype is just that, imo."

Really?? BMW recommends it. Check this out.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

 

Thank you. Good info...very good to know.

I'm wondering now though ~~ if that would work for my machine, why wouldn't it work for all (all R50's that is...I don't know if there are compression differences in the R53's or not?)?

I think (?) ("probably") the main thing about so-called "top-tier" fuels is likely: "QC" (quality control)...you get a "quality" product, and you tend to get it consistently. Just one opinion.

 

Thanks for the link (always appreciated), however, there seems (to me) to be a lack of technical information there.

You can safely bet your final 2 cents that there are "politics" ("dollars", etc.) involved in this designation of "Top-Tier". So far, from what I've seen, it seems rather vague. I am highly suspicious of anything that ends in ".com" (as opposed to, say, .org, .edu, etc.)

Rather than saying their fuels meet some "higher" criteria, I'm seeing that they've chosen to target "many" smaller, independent retailers by stating; "Currently, many gasoline retailers provide fuels with lower-quality additive packages...".

I believe by law, ALL retailers must meet certain standards/criteria.

Short of hard technical data (independent test results), I will continue to use 'less-than' top-tier fuels on a regular basis, with the occasional usage of the so-called top-tier stuff, if for no other reason than a nice case of the warm-fuzzies...

I'll be 50 in a couple months, and have used "cheap" gas (on a professional basis as well as personally) since 1976, with no "known" detriment -- though I only tend to keep vehicles for 150-200K miles - so perhaps there have been fuel-system/combustion-related problems with my vehicles after I've gotten rid of them?

 

grc .... just wondering

how often do you change your oil?

who's hype do you follow on that topic?

curious minds want to know . . .


( oh, , , , I passed 50 a while ago . . . )

 

R-50's have a higher compression pistion than a S. But since the air is cooler, and it is not forced induction, this is permissible. I do caution you...the engines in gen2 are very different, including their fuel needs. What is in the gen2 manual does not apply to gen1's in any way.
Top tier refers to detergent levels of an indrusty group...and is strickly volantary....useing their fuels might keep your engine cleaner, therby theroticaly reducing octane requirements if knock is the result of dirty injectors or glowing carbon on the pistions or valves, otherwise classfied as
dirt. Since these station charge a slight premium (in my area, and places that I travel), useing them more often than as a treat might be a waste of limited funds in your case. Anything higher than what is required is a waste, and below that is taking a chance. Mixing grades to create midgrade is what gas stations do, so to diy it, does save money in the realworld when you do the math. I would not run stright 87, but 89ish with the mix might be ok longterm.

 

I change my oil (myself...for 30+ years) every 3-6 months and/or 4000-8000 miles, depending on a fairly wide variety of situations and conditions.

I tend to rely on ("follow") a combination of the technical data I've managed to find, and my own experience(s) (which include having worked in the auto service "sales" industry).

Because I have sold some "hype" in my time, I'm not as quick as some folks to buy it.

I think I've actually learned quite a bit by drawing a line somewhere near the middle of both extremes in threads I've read on sites such as this one, and following the middle of that road...though still, personal experience has taught me more.

Why (?)...what/who do you "follow"?

 

Forgive me please - Gen1 is "pre-2002" (and Gen2 is 2002 and beyond?), is that correct? **EDIT**: ~~~ oops...nope - looks like `02-`05 = Gen1, `06 to present = Gen2 - correct this time? I never claimed to be any sort of 'Historian'...

Very good - thank you!

 

Depends....just remember...you style interior...any year, including s, convertables, etc, gen1. The intergrated radio console, with or without the turbo, anything with the "prince engine" is gen2. Due to the convertables that stayed a year behind on upgraging to the new chasey and engine it is confusing..could say gen1 is 02-06, and 07 convertables. Gen2 is everything newer...

 

Thanks. Why am I not surprised that this too, is not a fairly simple, clear-cut designation (rhetorical question).

Thanks again...

 

U just identified your claim to authority with no help from me . . .







there are few that provide answers here .... and many that search for answers

 

The models are confusing. Here is a table of the various MINI models

R Codes
R50: “Mk I / 1st Gen” MINI Cooper coupe/hardtop (2002-2006)
R52: “Mk I / 1st Gen” MINI Cooper & Cooper S Convertible/Cabrio (2005-2008)
R53: “Mk I / 1st Gen” MINI Cooper S coupe/hardtop (2002-2006)
R55: “Mk II / 2nd Gen” MINI Clubman & Clubman S (2008+)
R56: “Mk II / 2nd Gen” MINI Cooper & Cooper S coupe/hardtop (2007+)
R57: “Mk II / 2nd Gen” MINI Cooper & Cooper S Convertible/Cabrio (2009+)
Note: Only US Models Represented


The 2nd Gen MINI's have the Peugot built engine which is completely different from the 1st Gen. The new engine is a very modern, sophisticated power plant. I'm most impressed with direct fuel injection which sprays fuel directly into the cylinder combustion chamber rather than into the intake manifold. The 2nd Gen Cooper S is dual-turbo charged as opposed to the 1st Gen supercharger.

 

And your point is?

Actually that's a rhetorical question, as you have yet to make one (a single point, that is) - except that you're over 50 years of age...congrats...big deal.

What "claim to authority" do you speak of?? I made no such claim. You seem to have mixed your oranges with my apples, my good "Capt".

Comparing "knowledge" of what is (or may be) considered a 'Gen1 vs. Gen2' MINI, with one's experience as regards "hype" ("sales"), politics, and the qualities of (or a lack thereof) fuel/additives is in no way whatsoever any sort of VALID comparison.

And what "answers" (or anything else for that matter) have you 'provided' here?? Let me help you ... None. Zero. -0- ... zilch - zip - nada.

Why would one bother to post in a forum thread without either asking a question or providing one? Comes-off as a bit sophomoric - at best. And this from a '50+' "Capt"??

Or perhaps you're simply looking to drive folks away from the site? Brilliant.

Maybe when you have something to "add" in the future, you will add it. Otherwise, you seem to have far too much time on your hands...

 

So... Getting back to the topic at hand. The manual for a turbo R56 has no bearing at all on the R50. The prince engine can directly fight detonation by reducing boost (I would imagine given the electronic waste gate it has... does it?), which would effectively reduce dynamic compression ratio and by retarding spark.

The R50 is only able to retard spark, so there is a point that where you can be pinging so bad and the computer cant do anything about it. But that wasnt your question. Mixing 93 and 87 should be fine, you just have to be in the right ballpark with the octanes and the engine will be able to protect itself.

 

I'd say that's just about - Perfect. Thank you very much!

 

We just had an 05 S this week that had run regular gas since new. But bad news is the motor was gone. Broke ring/piston on number 1 cylinder. We also pulled the head and found the entire head all carbond up. If #1 didn't die the head was soon to be a problem. This car only had a 15% pulley everything else was stock, and pulley had only been on for about a year. Also it was an Automatic trans. I've had a ton of MINI's apart and never had one that looked this bad. Customer didn't abuse his car either. The only bad thing was the low octane fuel. I'm saying that was the cause, expensive lesson in my mind. Spend the little extra on the premium.

 

I wish we had 94 here in CA, but 91 has to do. I would not put 87 or 89 under ANY circumstance, that is what rental cars are for.

 

The "bump" you pay for premium over regular is about the smallest expense anyone could have for car ownership.

 

Running lower octane levels than a motor is tuned for will reduce the actual performance of a motor. You may not "feel" it but then again I'd be willing your butt didn't come out of your mama with dynojet on it.

Lower octane=less gasoline and more alcohol in the fuel. Alcohol produces less energy when it burns than gasoline. You can take my word for it or research it the internet is full of discussions on the benefits of higher octane fuels when it comes to performance.

Will running 87 octane do anything bad to your R50? Short answer NO. The R50 is a higher compression motor than the R53 because of the supercharger but it is by no means a high compression engine. I believe it is somewhere around 8.3:1. With a correct tune you can run 90 octane all day long in a 10.5:1 or even 11:1 compression engine with no ill effects.

ps is there a reason you change what you type to bold and a larger font than the default?

 

Lower octane doesn't necessarily imply more alcohol. In fact, ethanol has a *much* higher octane rating than the base gasoline stock its added to. Ethanol does have a lower energy content as you stated, so fuel efficiency will suffer somewhat compared to running alcohol-free gas.

Also, the R50 *is* a fairly high-compression engine (10.6:1, in fact). The reason it can run mid-grade or even lower gasoline with no damage is because of the adaptive nature of the ECU.

 

+1 - ECU does make the appropriate adjustments.

My early 1st Gen GTi's were 8.5:1 and my 3rd Gen was like 10:1 and 93 was what VW said to digest.

When all factored in at the end of the year, you are not paying all that much more for the fuel recommended by MINI.

 

Has anyone tried 100 Octane in a JCW Second Gen MINI? I haven't read this whole thread but was wondering if anyone has tried this before going to the track or Dyno. My BMW sees significant performance gains with High Octane fuel since the timing will advance.

 

Pay a little more at every fill-up, and enjoy great performance, or pay a lot later, and never enjoy the power your car can make!!

 

I stand corrected on the compression ratio I honestly don't know what cranny of my brain had that number associated with the MINI (maybe classics I honestly don't know). The ecu does make limited adjustments based on its program limits, there are limits however. I would wager that the "adjustment range" we believe to be there has more to do with MINIs being tuned a grade or two below recommended to protect the car from people who don't follow directions.

Tuning for lower octane than is expected to be used is actually a good idea if you don't know for sure the quality of fuel that will always be available and would make sense for a manufacturer with cars going all over the world.

We do it at the shop with motorcycles all the time, particularly if we know the customer is likely to go into the western half of the country where premium can be as much as 5 points lower octane than ours.

 

Oh, you're right - the MINI definitely isn't tuned to *require* premium fuel - that would cause no end of trouble with people using lower grades, either out of necessity or ignorance.

As for the parts of the country where even "premium" is only 88 or 89 octane, that's often a self-correcting problem. Many of those locations are at higher elevations, where an engine's octane requirements are legitimately lower for the same level of performance.

Of course, this is more true for naturally-aspirated engines (like most motorcycles) than it is for forced-induction car engines. There's a good argument to be made that forced-induction engines (especially turbocharged ones) continue to need higher-octane gas even at higher elevations.