I posted a previous thread that I got into a very minor parking lot accident and ended up with a nasty dent in the passenger side fender/hood and cracked my AC Schnitzer bumper.

I'm second owner of the car - orig owner bought it with ACS body kit and only drove 6500 miles in 2.5 yrs of ownership. I have GEICO and am pretty certain I listed the body kit and wheels on the car when I first purchased the policy. Today when I dropped the car off the claim agent gave me crap calling it aftermarket (this was after I pointed out to him that they should easily be able to get the new bumper as ACS has US facility in LA).

Any one have any tips for how I can ensure that I get the car repaired to previous condition with my ACS bumper? Thanks

 

In January our MINI was scratched in a parking lot accident as well and had to have the front bumper repainted. We also insure with GEICO. We had ZERO issues with the claim. They were fast and courteous.

Insurance companies go by the the information associated with your VIN when they determine your insurance premium; anything added to the car after it was built is not insured unless it is stated at the time the coverage is written. Aftermarket stuff stated at that time will show on your policy.

Just review your policy paperwork so you can be absolutely certain your special parts are listed, then push your claim.

If it's not covered, the good news is that you weren't paying for the additional coverage anyway (small consolation, I'm sure . . . ).

Good luck.

 

Speaking from experience; you need to be absolutely certain that your aftermarket parts are specifically covered by your insurance policy. Different insurance companies handle this differently. I had 3k of stereo equipment stolen out of a previous vehicle. I only had 1k of aftermarket parts coverage with my insurance(Progressive). So I only received a check for $1k. It was my lesson.

Bryan

 

i'm preparing to be screwed! i have a people mostly suck perspective and at least living in southern california, i see that most businesses don't give a rat's butt about customer service or even going the extra mile.

i suspect that i'll go pick up the car and find a standard mcs bumper on it - with the paint on the bumper and hood poorly matched to the rest of the car, the passenger fender molding not matching the non damaged driver side ACS molding and none of the grill surrounds/headlight surrounds (presuming they replace the passnger headlight) blacked out to match how it was before. i also don't anticipate them to call me with any updates (even though i asked - especially regarding the bumper), nor do i anticipate them to call and suggest that as a sign of good customer service they'll replace the ACS bumper, or offer me the JCW bumper as an alternative or give me option to pay difference to get the ACS bumper. any of this would be what i would hope for from a company that values their customer (of course i'm pretending that they value me as a customer)!

 

I have no idea what the laws are in CA but you should have the right to choose your own body shop to do the work and you should have gotten quotes from multiple shops, so pick one you trust... I mean you shouldn't have a sinking feelin' about them messing it up. The only time the insurance company should get involved is verifying and paying your claim.

I don't know what the ACS bumper retails for off-hand/how much extra is compared to a stock MCS but as for as insurance is concerned, one thing to keep in mind is the cost of labor can easily equal if not exceed the cost of parts. It shouldn't cost anymore to put on an aftermarket bumper. If they're not willing to pay for the extra cost of the part, so be it, but keep fighting them. They'll do anything not to pay.

 

the body shop does good work (I had another car serviced there several years back), but my concern is that if I get shafted with a non ACS bumper b/c the insurance company won't replace it, then the body shop is trying to blend the front OEM bumper/fender moldings (keeping in mind that there was no damage to the driver side) with the remainder of the car that has ACS kit. And, I have to wonder if all my grille surrounds and headlight surrounds will be repainted black. it really seems like a absolute crap to me to - i mean if i ordered an mcs from the factory, but requested jcw wheels or wing and then had a claim - could the insurance deny exact replacement? i wouldn't think so, but apparently GEICO thinks so. perhaps they do have neanderthals working for their company! it is entirely possible, i mean one of the claim adjusters actually commented that i was fortunate that i didn't damage the mirrors (checkered flag) or my roof (rising sun graphic) because those would certainly not be covered - so maybe the issue is that these dumb Fs don't understand all the different ways that one can actually purchase a mini from the factory.

well, i keep this thread updated.

 

That's why I love my State Farm rep. I had about $4k worth of stereo gear in my car, with the appropriate riders on my insurance policy. But when I sold that car, I moved all the stereo stuff into my wife's car and forgot to tell the insurance company about it. Long story short, everything was stolen from my wife's car, but State Farm didn't bat an eyelid - they asked me to get three quotes from local installers to replace everything, they tossed out the high and low quotes and cut me a check for the amount of the middle quote.

I suspect that's part of the problem (not recognizing factory-available parts), but it's also pretty standard to deny coverage for aftermarket parts unless they're covered by an insurance rider (even if the dealer did the installation).

If the parts had been installed at the factory or at the Vehicle Production Center, you'd have no problems. Even dealer-installed parts wouldn't have been a problem if they had been part of the original order, since many of the optional MINI parts aren't installed until the car reaches the dealer. That would be the case with the JCW wheels or wing.

But there's simply no way to spin an ACS body kit as an "original" part, even if the installation/painting was done by the MINI dealer when the car was new.

 

Hey, Mach. As GEICO's number one competitor, I love to rip them whenever I get a chance. But in this case, I can't argue with their decision.

You really should have pointed out your aftermarket upgrades when the policy was underwritten. Like it was said, all they do is run the VIN and give you a quote. Most agents wouldn't recognize an aftermarket bumper kit if it bit them in the butt. It's up to you to point it out to them.

As it was also said, you haven't been paying the premiums for the upgrade so they don't owe you for anything but the base parts. Now, as Scott said, sometimes insurers will go ahead and cover aftermarket stuff. But they're under no obligation to do so unless they've been collecting the premiums to insure it. Think about it minus emotions and I hope you'll see the business sense in that.

By chance, do you have receipts for your aftermarket parts ? Presenting those to your claim rep can't hurt your case.

 

Have you checked the prices for an OEM bumper/OEM style aftermarket bumper and your current bumper?

The price difference may not be that much and sometimes (sometimes) the OEM part or like kind quality can more expensive than an AM part.

If it were up to me I would pay the difference (if needed) to avoid the trim mismatching.

Meant to add, please keep up to date with your body shop, bottom line this is your car. If there is something that you do not agree with, it does not mean that you have to proceed with it. You may have to open your wallet to pay the difference but you are never forced to put a specific part on your car just because your insurance company is paying for it.

 

I know my Nationwide specifically states that it will cover $1500 in aftermarket parts. Even if the ACS bumper was installed by the dealer, it's probably still considered aftermarket equipment by the carrier. I'd think that JCW wheels or a wing, if installed at time of purchase, since they are OEM equipment, would be covered but I'm not in the insurance business. I've never had an issue being compensated fairly by Nationwide, as far as I can recall.

Just the same, you should be able to write a check to the body shop to cover the difference of the ACS or JCW bumper if that's the route you have to take. When I had an incident with a car I owned previously, two wheels were damaged. Nationwide was paying to have those refinished. Since all four wheels were showing eight years of wear, I just gave the body shop a check for the other two so all four would be done. I don't see why working something out like that would be an issue.

 

i think OEM mcs bumper (retail is about $300-400), JCW i couldn't find a price and ACS retail is $1150 (but I'm not sure if that is already painted - the ACS price list makes a comment about paint so it's difficult to tell). So, presuming 50% mark up, wholesale would be 150-200 vs $575 for acs and ??? for JCW.

I would entertain the idea of paying the difference (depending what that difference is). Regarding the comment about not paying the additional premium and insurance companies not being obligated then to cover anything more than OEM - why is it okay to justify that regarding a car - but when it comes to healthcare and people's own obligation to live a healthy lifestyle, have health insurance and treat their illness there isn't this same accountability? Under the logic described for the auto insurance, then everyone who walks into my hospital without insurance for them or their kids I should just be able to say see ya later go die somewhere else! I can see the point if I bought a base cooper, put insurance on it, then added $10k in parts. But, I bought a car that existed a certain way, which from what I understand, hit the roads for the first time, titled and licenced 6500 miles before I took ownership in that same condition. It's what I insured, it's what I dropped off and it's what I expect to have replaced. I don't think I'm being unreasonable. Insurance company has received thousands of my $$$$$, this is a small repayment on their part to my being a customer.

 

Oh boy... where to start with this ??

First off, the attitude of "I've been paying premiums for years and now it's time to collect from them and make those bastads pay" is prevelant in our society and is the number two reason people commit insurance fraud.

Sorry, but you've been paying premiums for the RISK you present, not for the claims you present. Think about that.

Now, your argument about Health Insurance is a real head-scratcher. I'm having a hard time comprehending how you can not see the difference between health insurance coving medical costs for someone who may have contributed to their own illness through unhealthy living and auto insurance paying for parts on a car for which you have not paid premiums.

Let me put it to you this way: If you have a health insurance policy and you submit a claim for medical care received by your spouse, do you think that should be covered ? Okay then... why would you think your aftermarket parts not listed under and endorsement on your auto policy would be covered ? You didn't pay premiums for your spouse's health and you didn't pay premiums for your aftermarket car parts.

 

If they end up not covering it, I would ask your agent—if you haven't already—what the premium difference would be actually insure the part and see if they can postrate your premium so you would pay the difference now to get the coverage. They may or may not do that but you're not exactly asking for a new car, nor for $200,000 here for liability when you only were covered for $100,000. The least they can do is meet you halfway here especially if you have a clean record—how long have you been their customer and what's your deductible?

Insurance is an absolute racket. On one of the webpages inside my progressive account, they flat out lie and claim insurance companies pay more per customer than they make on premiums which is absolute BS. If that were true for every customer, they would be failing just like the banks are. Somehow they act as if they're doing you a charity service and they're losing money. But what do these companies do? They run more TV commercials and jack up your rates.

 

You're right but that's not exactly what I'm reading here. It sounds like a slight misunderstanding of policy coverage.

Not exactly. It depends on a) what's covered and b) what happened. Collision covers your car in the case you wrap it around a tree or otherwise smash up; liability covers bodily injury to others and others property damage caused by you. Comprehensive covers stuff stolen or damaged not covered by either—for example a deer, hail, etc. Part of the reason you pay for insurance is to pay for those unexpected things; risk is only a factor when you factor in liability. If this is just a property damage claim (that is, nobody else is filing for negligence or injury and you didn't hit anybody), your rates shouldn't jump up because there was no risk.

 

Read his post again. I think you'll see he was stating, "the insurance company owes me because I've been paying them premiums for years". It's pretty clear, to me.

And you're teaching me about coverages ?? Thanks, But I think I understand them. Want my resume ?

And sorry, but insurance covers RISKS... not claims. If we wrote policies to cover claims, then you would only pay premiums when you filed a claim. NO... insurance is written to cover the risk you present and the premiums you pay are directly related to your RISK, not your claims.

And you're wrong AGAIN about rates not increasing if no liability claim is presented. A single-car loss is a surchargeable accident just like a multi-car accident for which you're at fault. When you have at-fault accidents, single car or multi-car, the risk increases that you'll have another at-fault loss (actuarial data proves this to be true). So the rates go up because your risk is greater.

And sorry again, your definition of "risk" is scewed. In fact, it's wayyyyyyy off base.

 

Fair enough but in his defense you will say anything when you're pissed. Emotion doesn't come across very well in a forum that you might later regret.

Just because the math works out in favor of the insurance company means it's good for the consumer in the long term... everything about your post details what's wrong with insurance companies—there's no grey area these days, matter how small the claim or previous history. I'm not going to dispute actuarial data because you can spin statistics in whatever way to make a point... lies, damn lies, and statistics. And you can't tell me you're not just a little biased, being in the industry?

There's one particularly famous horror story that irks me about the insurance industry where a homeowner was inquiring about some minor water damage. Their insurer, State Farm (iirc), threatened to to drop them, even though the couple were customers for over 30 years with a clean history. The homeowners ended up not filing the claim but SF dropped them anyway. And since SF shared that information with choicepoint, they were pretty much blacklisted from getting any other insurance elsewhere.

 

Convenient that you picked two small parts of my post to respond to. I was really looking forward to you responding to the entire post.

So, now your agenda is clear. You're anti-insurance and you want to throw one HEARSAY example at me to try to convince me that insurance companies are evil. Ridiculous argument. I would venture to say there's more to that story that what you know or what you're presenting for public consumption.

What exactly in my post indicates there's anything wrong with insurance ? How about an example. What... you don't like the fact that insurance is based on risk ? You don't think actuarial data is relevant ? You feel that premiums should be based on .... what... the color of the sky on a given day ? FYI... insurance companies are required to produce actuarial information to State regulators in order to set rates. So even if you don't like stats, the State requires insurers to use them.

And finally, I may never have seen a more appropriate UserName in all my time here on NAM. Wow.

 

to clarify (and of course i'm upset) i'm suggesting that i pay insurance on a car - i pay insurance on a car that exists a certain way. i have a 2005 mcs with acs kit on it. it's how the car has existed since it first hit the road. it's been damaged and i've faithfully paid my premiums. i haven't insured a yugo but then brought in my mcs saying please cover the damage on it by applying my yugo policy.

perhaps the misunderstood issue here is the attitude that i received from the grunt representing the insurance company. i suspected going in that i was going to have a problem. thus, when he was evaluating the damage, i pointed out that ACS was located in LA and that hopefully that would make it easier to get the new part. at that point he started with attitude- well this is a cooper s, so i'll cover a mcs bumper, blah blah blah. what i love about this type of attitude is that it immediately puts the whole thing on the defensive. rather than suggesting there might be an issue, but here's how we might resolve it, he makes it a confrontation. the real issue is that the guy is probably a high school drop out, hates his job and his life and rather than take any responsibility for anything, he's gonna be pissy with everyone on the planet (cuz it's apparently my fault he's where he's at and damn me for hoping that my insurance company might actually provide me with some above average customer service).

the previous car i mentioned earlier that had work done at this same shop (different insurance company - Wawanesa), had a few aftermarket parts on the front end (things i installed well after i bought and insured the car) - such as eyelids, bra, etc. none of it specifically covered by the policy - but when i picked up the car, all the items had been replaced NIB.

 

Mach... your claim rep might be a lot of things and he might even be the worst claim rep in the world. But if he's actually a claim rep (not just a claim processor), he's no high school drop out. The position requires a Bachelor's Degree. At least for all the major insurance companies I know of.

Just one other thing... yeah, the aftermarket bumper was on the veh when you took out the auto policy. But that doesn't mean the insurance company was aware of it nor did they quote you the premium for it. You have to take responsibility of knowing the aftermarket parts on your vehicle and making sure you are insured for them.

Now... if I were handling your claim myself, I would have certainly offered you the option of paying the difference for the two bumpers out-of-pocket. Your rep surely should have done the same. In that sense, he didn't do a very good job on your claim. And I also agree that he did put the claim in a confrontational position unnecessarily.

 

I just want to add that just because you work in a specific industry does not mean that you are in bed with them or think that they do everything right.

I think that working in the industry exposes you to things that you otherwise would not be aware of. (This is true for all fields, think about it)

And unfortunately the truth is just not as much fun to spread as evil insurance company stories. Or evil police officers, evil power company, evil cable company...you get the idea.

Now I am not sticking up for the bad apples out there obviously there are people out there that are not cut out for the positions they are in (and companies for that matter too). If that is the case between you and your current adjuster, you may request to speak with their Supervisor. Sometimes people just don't get along, personalities clash.

Good luck with your claim and repairs.

 

P.S. claims adjusters are are known to frequent forums and google, some of them are even members just a heads up.....

 

Mach, Hmmm...."i have a people mostly suck perspective" ...could this be a self-fulfilling prophesy?

 

Mach
Sorry for your problems. I hope you get a good repair.

For those who feel entitled to payments just because you are paying premiums I have to agree with CR&PW&JB. Insurance is for peace of mind and recovery IF there is a loss.
I would much rather pay premiums for home, auto and health and never need them than get my "moneys worth". This gets back to the question are you luckier to never use your insurance? I think yes.

 

Here's another way for folks to consider looking at insurance.

It's a socialist system. That is, an insurance company writes a large number of insurance policies. The idea is, the total premium they earn will allow them to pay all the claims for their policyholders, even if some of those insureds get more out of their insurance then they pay in.

After all, you have one catostrophic accident in which you severely injure another party and the insurance company pays out the limits of your liability coverage... I've seen payouts for severe injuries or death that exceed a million dollars.

So, the premiums you individually pay help to pay for such a huge claim. But the peace of mind you get knowing YOU will benefit from such a payout if you ever kill or seriously injure another person should be worth something to you. Don't you think ?

And let me ask you this ? If your state didn't make insurance mandatory, would you still carry it ? If you say, "yes", then you should understand what I'm saying. You get peace of mind knowing that you'll be covered in the event of a huge accident that would otherwise put you in the poor house. The insurance company gets some of your money for that peace of mind and to pay other people's claims, large, small, or humongous.

 

yeah, i did consider that before i posted. but then i also considered, he didn't seem to familiar with mini cooper and i also realized he'd be surfing a lot forums to keep up with all his customers.

Re: this comment: Mach, Hmmm...."i have a people mostly suck perspective" ...could this be a self-fulfilling prophesy?

i guess it's only self fulfilling in the sense that this seems to be the world we live in. it seems like we have to get fired up about people doing their job - and by this i mean doing what is the minimum expected of them - whether we talking food service, construction, banking, auto repair, insurance, police, doctors, etc. i believe that we live in a society where we actually get excited if someone got our order right, or if the waiter/waitress actually provided decent service, or your doctor actually listened to you - this is now the exception rather than the rule. i think it's unfortunate that i have this perspective, but i see it everywhere (heck, just look at how people drive - as if they are the only person/car on the road) - our society has become numb to the fact that we are a community of people, with diversity, yet similar goals. we are heavy into a me-ification mindset that rarely has glimpses and examples of people who see and do things with a "we" mentality.

i'd love to be all polly-anna about people and society, but i'd have to wear a little purple dinosaur suit and do a lot of pretending - i'd much rather exist in the real world - even if it has it's let downs!