On January 1'st it will be twelve months and counting.

It's going to be a long year. The best part is the wife thinks I'm going to leave it stock . Oh, it will be black of course,

Longboard


2008 BMW 135I / Twin Turbo 300hp -300FtLb

 

On a related topic, I currently don't own an MCS but I'm considering replacing my beloved '95 993, which would be difficult. However, I've driven an '06 MCS and I could see tracking it and making it a daily driver.

Any other thoughts on whether or not I will regret the replacement? Would '05/'06 MCS be the best for track days?

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

Gus

 

Listen to the force, grasshopper! Actually, it's not a bad idea, T...

 

Nope you aren't nuts

I have 35K on my '05 R53 S and I share your same feelings.

I just LOVE this car

Here I am hoping for v3.0 of the next MINI to go back to the "magic" that made the R53 such an awesome car

 

Me too (see signature)

 

I've owned several. I guess it boils down to what you want in a sports car. For me, the earlier 911 models appealed to all of the senses -- you could actually smell an engine "aroma" while driving one, for example. They had an element of rawness.

Most of the latest crop of Porsches have been dumbed down and refined in order to appeal to a wider audience. They're better in just about every objective measurement but are oddly unsatisfying to own and drive. I think they've just gone too far down the refinement road. Ryephile used the term sterile which is an apt description.

If they're not careful, BMW will make the same mistake with the Mini. (jmo)

 

Totally disagree here, and I own a Cayman S and a R53. There's a reason the Cayman S is on nearly every magazines "Best of 2007" list, including European Car. It's certainly not because it's "sterile" . I've owned several Porsches, and this is by far the best one yet. Mid engine with insane handling. The feel of the road, the steering, the fact that I can do anything I want with the car and it listens....etc...... Yes, they're better in every objective matter, but these magazines would hammer Porsche if they were sterile, no question. Unsatisfying to own? The Cayman has the highest percent of "Would you buy again" for sports cars. Does the Cayan appeal to all of the senses? Without question! Is there an aroma? Thank God, no!

I know we're just Forum-talking here, but owning both and racing both in the 1/4 mile, Autocross, and a "real" track, I definitely have an opinion.

 

By the looks of it though you don't really have a Cayman. You have an awesome twin turbo monster.

Longboard

 

Getting close! It's the guinea pig so its now been in the shop for about 2 months. Hopefully it will be ready by the end of January!

 

Based on two test drives of a Cayman S and one 911, I have to agree with you. My father's looking to leave the BMW ranks and move into a porsche, so I recommended the Cayman S. To me, the car is amazing, and would be one of the few cars I'd take over my beloved R53. The 911, on the other hand, wasn't for me - it was, however, for him. That is, it was more refined, more comfortable, and had more mid-range torque for putting around town.

To me, my car is exactly what I want/need, but I honestly think Porsche made a winner with the Cayman S. That sentiment was driven home when I saw a few of them absolutely scorch LRP - I know, they probably had good drivers, but the Cayman S is a pretty awesome track beast.

To the OP - glad you figured out what was best for you and ended up with it.

I'm looking forward to the real world 1-series comparisons once they start getting here. If statistics can say anything without driving the car (we know they can't, otherwise we'd all want R56s), then the 1-series might be a little too close to the e46 coupe for me (weight and size). To me it's more of a newer e30 than a new 2002 - I think I read a review of it where someone said something similar, too.

mb

 

The Cayman S is a beast on the track. I drive in Intermediate but rode in my Cayman with a guy in Advanced. He passed every car except one of Evo's 996tt's with around 700hp. I only screwed up ONE time and that was going into a corner WAY too hard. The car simply corrected for me and I went on.

For the 1-series... I had a new 335i when they first came out and the biggest issue is NO LIMITED SLIP! Every corner you turn the inside tire just fries itself. The 1-series will be no different. I think it would be a great daily driver but I'd still want LSD in that car; it needs it...

 

Grassroots Motorsports just did a track review of the 135i and they absolutely loved it. "There just aren't enough synonyms for 'composure' for us to accurately describe the car's manner on track." And: "The 135i is simply one of the finest track cars we've driven in recent memory."

It will be interesting!

mb

 

That IS great news! For $35k it should be an incredible car. I forget which magazine tested it recently and had a few complaints: too heavy, too tall, and no LSD. It's only 200lbs less than the 335i. They said it wasn't made for the track. Was it Car & Driver?? I think everyone hoped it really would be a 2002 succesor which most of the reviews are saying, sadly, it isn't. I'm SURE with a few tweaks it could play the "daily driver/track car" part.

 

yeah - what he said!!!!! let's not pretend here! the mcs is a fun car and it handles and drives well (for a fwd car!) but, the balance, performance and feel of P987 or the PC7 are just perfection! whether you are enthralled by the exhaust tone (especially in the 987 with the top down), the superb handling and steering response, the beautiful interior and uh, yeah, the exterior (what can you say - porsche is a porsche - the nose is perfection and if it's a 911 - my god the curve and shape of the *** of that car is --oh my god, i need to go change my underwear!)
like i said, mcs is fun, great car, but it is not a cayman s (PC7). if you haven't driven one - take a trip to your local porsche dealer. if you haven't owned one - well, i'm sorry!!!!!!!!!!

 

I had money on the 1 series and was going to be the first in Atlanta..... I backed away. I'll wait for the test drive.

 

Gus - the 993 is like the purist sense of 911 perfection - in other words - it's the perfect marriage of raw driving experience and european refinement. the 993 is bulletproof! the sound, the feel, the look -(and those great commercials from the 90's) for the 993!!!!!! the 997 is definitely an amazing piece of machinery - but porsche has made the car so refined that you do have to dig to get the raw feel of a 993 (of course, turning off all the intuitive programs that correct for rich dumb *** driver/trophy wife error helps)!!!!
if you're narrowing it down to 993 vs R53 (and the 993 is in great condition, etc) - 993 hands down!!!!!!!!

 

The 135I if for the wife. She wanted a convertible but I kind of talked her into the 135 . Its not going to be a track car. I have the Mini for that. The plan is wheels-tires-springs-tune. That's it or the wife will kill me. Hell, she can't drive a stick so it's paddle shifting for me. It won't be 35K I know that. She wants it fully loaded. Should end up around 40K.

Longboard

 

That's what most of us are talking about when we say too refined. They turned the car into an automaton. We want to DRIVE the car, not sit in the seat and move things around a bit till the car freaks out and fixes it for us. I used to own an E36 M3, compared to the E46 it was hands down a better drivers car.

It's great you like it, but to think that it's somehow connected to the road with all of it's fancy gizmos is just silly. I want the car to rumble and vibrate when I rev it; I want to smell the engine working; I want to feel my steering wheel shake; I want the shifter to vibrate.

Porsche has gotten wobbly in the knee's like every other company out there and turned their brand into a brand for rich yuppies. They have no idea how to properly control a car so they add 200 electronic programs to the car that dumbs it down to their level. They've departed from the pedigree they once had, driving a Porsche no longer brings out that visceral feeling of love.

Owning a Porsche today is a status symbol for most (I live in Los Angeles, I can't drive a mile without seeing at least 2-3 of them). About 80% of the drivers I see are in the slow lane, doing 60 on the freeway (In a 65). Another 19% are driving like idiots, relying on their traction control and ESP to keep things in check. I maybe see 4-5 people in a year (The other 1%) that actually know what they're doing. The car is in control, you can hear their tires squeeling (No Traction Control) and it's actually a challenge to keep up with them.

I've pulled every single engine mount on my car and replaced them with solid mounts. I've installed a shock on the engine so rather than moving like it should, the force is transmitted directly to the car. I live for the vibrations, rattles, squeaks, and everything else that makes this car something worth actually driving rather than something to cruise the freeway or stick in my garage and drool on (24k miles this year ). I wake up in the morning on the weekend and just get in the car and drive 100 miles, for no reason... just through random canyons, back up a different canyon, etc.

If this still isn't clicking for some of you... I give you the following example. Comparing a newer Porsche to an older one is like comparing classical music to trance or hard core rock. One is refined, relaxes you, puts you to sleep even and the other is just raw noise. There are no hold-back's. Screaming, loud, RAW.

Which one appeals to the masses? The former of course. Not many 50-60 year old men are interested in sliding the back end out around corners, smelling burning oil, or hearing their car scream when they bounce it off the rev limiter. See though, they went too far. They turned the car into an automaton. We want to DRIVE the car, not sit in the seat and move things around a bit till the car freaks out and fixes it for us. I used to own an E36 M3, compared to the E46 it was hands down a better drivers car.

There's still something to be said for those of us that are die hard enthusiasts though, those of us that want the raw, unfiltered experience, without any gizmos "Saving us". Those of us that don't mind our cars being air cooled, despite the fact that it may mean some headaches.

You're welcome to disagree (You appear to fit somewhere in the middle of the two ranges. Someone who bought the car to actually drive it, but doesn't really want to deal with the full, raw, unfiltered experiance that owning a porsche used to mean), after all, that's what these forums are for, discussion.

P.S.
I don't particularly like classical music, maybe that's why I’m more interested in the latter .

 

That's a great synopsis of what makes driving fun for me, too; but Rustyboy, have you driven a Cayman S? I didn't find it to be too refined for my liking, and by comparison, I hated the R56. I bet with some solid mounts and coilovers, you could have a raw experience in the cayman, too.

It's fun to hear/feel the engine above your right ear.

mb

 

I might like the expereince of an R53 better, but only because it would be enhanced by the feeling of all the money I saved by not buying a Cayman S. I'm serious about that, the pleasure of driving for me is enhanced when the vehicle is a good value for the money. But take that out of the equation... no way I prefer any MINI over a Cayman S for a performance driving expereince ... front engine with front wheel drive feeling vs. mid engine with rear wheel drive ... MINI has no chance in this contest for me, Cayman wins ... eaisly ... but I'm still more more likely to buy a MINI ...

 

I haven't, but having driven some monster porsches, both old and new, I think I can prejudge it a little. I know it handles well, and i'm sure it's quite nice to drive, but unless it rattles, shakes, and vibrates like an old BMW, it's too refined for me .

 

The Cayman is quite a value for what it is. Between what i've spent for my car (32,400 after tax), and the mods i've added to it (What am I to now 31k or so?), I could have easily bought a used 997 or a new Cayman (Or a host of other very fast cars). I prefer the MINI though.

For what it's worth, with a new set of tires, a stock MINI GP could come pretty damn close to the Cayman on the skidpad. IIRC the the GP is .91 with runflats. I'm pretty sure the Cayman comes with MUCH better tires, and pulls off a .96 or so.

That being said, there aren't a lot of MINI's out there that can get up to the 171 mph top speed that the Cayman advertises (My personal best is 153 taken off OBD2 and corrected for tire size).

A car is just a tool, it's all about finding the right tool for the job .

 

I think my dream garage would include:
- My MCS - CR/B
- GP - The only color it comes in
- M Coupe (the dork, not the new one) - Estoril Blue or Imola Red
- E30 M3 - Cinnabar Red
- Cayman S - Not sure.
- E39 M5 - Avus Blue (you know, the practical, 4-door car).

I know that's OT, but this thread really has me dreaming.

mb

 

Having owned an '86 911 and I currently have a '96 993, I agree with this post. Even between my two cars there is a big difference, and the newer cars are even more refined than my 993.

I'm looking at the possibility of getting an '05 MCS in the very near future as I just started my search this week. I prefer the look of the MCSs from 2002-2006 over the newer model.

 

You'll find that the 2002-2006 is also more viscerally pleasing, if that's what you're looking for. It won't go like your 993, but it'll be fun.

mb